Would You Replace RNG Jumpshots With More Sway Involved Instead?

[Faraleth]

If we complain loud enough, rumor on the street has it that they roll a chance wheel, with a 0.3% chance to make changes based on community feedback.

[nokiII]

If we complain loud enough, the only change will be, that the game will die a noisy death instead of a quiet f2p shithole death it steers to now.

[ProfPlump]

I’m seriously pissed off to realise that Sparks can still jump snipe perfectly, but Vassili and Redeye can’t…

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“Amerika;149607”][quote=“MTLMortis;149580”]

I’m against altering global physics for one merc over others. If all RNG/Sway is removed for all mercs, I have no problems with it.[/quote]

We’re not talking about one merc. We’re talking about one weapon type. Bolt-action sniper rifles. Which will be used by more than just Vassli at some point.[/quote]

Then no.

If a merc jumps and there’s rng/sway on a pistol/shotgun/smg/mg then rifles get it to. If not then they’re being completely inconsistent.

[Amerika]

[quote=“MTLMortis;149705”][quote=“Amerika;149607”][quote=“MTLMortis;149580”]

I’m against altering global physics for one merc over others. If all RNG/Sway is removed for all mercs, I have no problems with it.[/quote]

We’re not talking about one merc. We’re talking about one weapon type. Bolt-action sniper rifles. Which will be used by more than just Vassli at some point.[/quote]

Then no.

If a merc jumps and there’s rng/sway on a pistol/shotgun/smg/mg then rifles get it to. If not then they’re being completely inconsistent.[/quote]

What is your logic behind this? Other than an all/nothing viewpoint. I prefer balance so that nothing becomes wasted and worthless in the game. Universal homogenization tends to not allow for this.

[MTLMortis]

What is your logic behind this? Other than an all/nothing viewpoint. I prefer balance so that nothing becomes wasted and worthless in the game. Universal homogenization tends to not allow for this.

Game physics.

yes, you’ll reply balance/playstyle blah blah blah

again, you’re confusing global and specific.

Global are things such as jumping, gravity, bullet sway/rng while jumping. Things that are universal to all mercs and apply equally to all mercs. Proxy doesn’t jump any higher than Stoker though realistically she should. Why? Because of a global setting that apply to all mercs to balance the game.

Specific would be the damage models, rates of fire, bullet spread, recoil of one weapon versus another.

You don’t suddenly become more accurate looking through a scope and jumping. As a matter of fact you become much, much less accurate exactly as the patch implemented (for all mercs).

Yes, I know it’s a game, but the change was specific, and intended. Maybe that’s how the devs want us to play the game. We both don’t like the change, but it’s there. You are arguing that the change should be reverted only for bolt-action rifles. To which I’m going to call poppycock, balderdash and absolute twaddle. This sort of change is an all or nothing.

[Jesus2]

[quote=“MTLMortis;149722”]
You don’t suddenly become more accurate looking through a scope[/quote]
Have you tried once to shot again in your life ? Try without aiming in the sight and while doing it you can evven jump if you want in every case youll be more accurate while ADSing. And im pretty sure Sniper from any army can shoot a man sized target while jumping and looking in his scope if the target is in a 30 meter range. And no, RNG should get away from every merc while ADSing. RNG while ADSing just make no sense at all

[Amerika]

[quote=“Amerika;149715”]What is your logic behind this? Other than an all/nothing viewpoint. I prefer balance so that nothing becomes wasted and worthless in the game. Universal homogenization tends to not allow for this.

Game physics.

yes, you’ll reply balance/playstyle blah blah blah

again, you’re confusing global and specific.

Global are things such as jumping, gravity, bullet sway/rng while jumping. Things that are universal to all mercs and apply equally to all mercs. Proxy doesn’t jump any higher than Stoker though realistically she should. Why? Because of a global setting that apply to all mercs to balance the game.

Specific would be the damage models, rates of fire, bullet spread, recoil of one weapon versus another.

You don’t suddenly become more accurate looking through a scope and jumping. As a matter of fact you become much, much less accurate exactly as the patch implemented (for all mercs).

Yes, I know it’s a game, but the change was specific, and intended. Maybe that’s how the devs want us to play the game. We both don’t like the change, but it’s there. You are arguing that the change should be reverted only for bolt-action rifles. To which I’m going to call poppycock, balderdash and absolute twaddle. This sort of change is an all or nothing.[/quote]

Please stop saying that I am confusing things. I am obviously not confusing anything. I have been very specific in my responses and my reasoning.

Sitting behind, “it’s universal” and “it’s intended” is saying something to say something without actually having a reason as to why it needs to be universal or why it’s intended (of course it’s intended…the devs said so). You won’t even give a reason why it’s better for players. Why is it all or nothing? It is a game.

Also, by your logic, all sniper rifles should shoot perfectly fine and straight from the hip. This is not a universal mechanic for all guns. Yet it’s in the game and you’ve mentioned nothing about it.

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“Amerika;149731”]Sitting behind, “it’s universal” and “it’s intended” is saying something to say something without actually having a reason as to why it needs to be universal or why it’s intended (of course it’s intended…the devs said so). You won’t even give a reason why it’s better for players. Why is it all or nothing? It is a game.

Also, by your logic, all sniper rifles should shoot perfectly fine and straight from the hip. This is not a universal mechanic for all guns. Yet it’s in the game and you’ve mentioned nothing about it.[/quote]

I gave my reasons. I provided examples. Certain things in shooters are universal because they have to be. Some games have more, some have less. Gravity, for instance. Weapon Sway and Shot RNG while jumping are also one of those universal constants that apply to all weapons.

Also, quit putting words in my mouth and making fallacious assumptions.

(FOR THE RECORD this is what I believe.)By my logic: all weapons should be affected by the same game physics. <— please read, and reread that till it sticks. I don’t mean to sound rude but your (false) reiteration of my beliefs is getting a bit irritating.

[Litego]

Remove the sway, it’s fucking stupid, not to mention that the sway itself is RNG in this game, doesn’t even follow a set pattern. It’s so annoying missing easy shots because the RNG sway fucks me. Do they really want snipers to stand completely still in a fast paced game like this?

Remove the sway, remove the random offset when scoping in (this “feature” is on another level of stupid), and remove the RNG of jumpshots, then they can start balancing the sniper classes without any BS mechanics.

[Black2]

If you’re gonna make a skill based game you can’t have rng affecting gameplay period.

Ding ding ding.
This thread should of ended with this post.

How are you going to claim a game requires skill with RNG affecting the gameplay?
That’s not skill, that’s luck. Adding RNG, WHILE scoped in with sniper is basically telling players that jump sniping is not possible because it’s going to be horribly inaccurate no matter how good you are.

I’ve never seen a problem with jump sniping nor do I believe it’s overpowered.

[Amerika]

[quote=“MTLMortis;149738”][quote=“Amerika;149731”]Sitting behind, “it’s universal” and “it’s intended” is saying something to say something without actually having a reason as to why it needs to be universal or why it’s intended (of course it’s intended…the devs said so). You won’t even give a reason why it’s better for players. Why is it all or nothing? It is a game.

Also, by your logic, all sniper rifles should shoot perfectly fine and straight from the hip. This is not a universal mechanic for all guns. Yet it’s in the game and you’ve mentioned nothing about it.[/quote]

I gave my reasons. I provided examples. Certain things in shooters are universal because they have to be. Some games have more, some have less. Gravity, for instance. Weapon Sway and Shot RNG while jumping are also one of those universal constants that apply to all weapons.

Also, quit putting words in my mouth and making fallacious assumptions.

(FOR THE RECORD this is what I believe.)By my logic: all weapons should be affected by the same game physics. <— please read, and reread that till it sticks. I don’t mean to sound rude but your (false) reiteration of my beliefs is getting a bit irritating.[/quote]

You didn’t list why. I’ve asked you many times to list out why with specific questions. How does it make the game better overall, how it improves the mercs…what do we gain that is a positive? You have never done this and instead use marketing terms or random words to make it sound like you said something when you simply avoided the question. And now you’re getting all obstinate about it and keep saying that I am “confusing” things when in reality you’re simply ducking the questions or don’t have a good answer.

Do you want to see bolt-actions fire accurately from the hip? It’s a universal mechanic and it fits within what you want. So do you want this yes or no?

[darlingClaymore]

If you’re gonna make a skill based game you can’t have rng affecting gameplay period.

World of tanks:)

[MTLMortis]

You didn’t list why. I’ve asked you many times to list out why with specific questions. How does it make the game better overall, how it improves the mercs…what do we gain that is a positive?

We have consistent game physics that provide a baseline equivalency for all weapons.

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]
You have never done this and instead use marketing terms or random words to make it sound like you said something when you simply avoided the question. And now you’re getting all obstinate about it and keep saying that I am “confusing” things when in reality you’re simply ducking the questions or don’t have a good answer.[/quote]

It is not my fault that you don’t agree/disagree/understand that universal constants are necessary for consistency.

Apparently the Revivr gun nerf was completely unnecessary in your version of Dirty Bomb. One-shotting mercs from across the map took skill and timing. It was a valid playstyle, no?

See what I did there? Wild conjecture and speculation is a two-way street.

Do you want to see bolt-actions fire accurately from the hip? It’s a universal mechanic and it fits within what you want. So do you want this yes or no?

I want all weapons to use the same physics model. This isn’t Quake and you aren’t hefting around a rail gun. If and when they do add in a rail gun we can discuss specific weapon hip-fire accuracy then. I’d probably give that gun a pass.

Personally I don’t have problems with bolt-actions at medium range, but that’s just my experience. I do not use them at close range.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]You didn’t list why. I’ve asked you many times to list out why with specific questions. How does it make the game better overall, how it improves the mercs…what do we gain that is a positive?

We have consistent game physics that provide a baseline equivalency for all weapons.

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]
You have never done this and instead use marketing terms or random words to make it sound like you said something when you simply avoided the question. And now you’re getting all obstinate about it and keep saying that I am “confusing” things when in reality you’re simply ducking the questions or don’t have a good answer.[/quote]

It is not my fault that you don’t agree/disagree/understand that universal constants are necessary for consistency.

Apparently the Revivr gun nerf was completely unnecessary in your version of Dirty Bomb. One-shotting mercs from across the map took skill and timing. It was a valid playstyle, no?

See what I did there? Wild conjecture and speculation is a two-way street.

Do you want to see bolt-actions fire accurately from the hip? It’s a universal mechanic and it fits within what you want. So do you want this yes or no?

I want all weapons to use the same physics model. This isn’t Quake and you aren’t hefting around a rail gun. If and when they do add in a rail gun we can discuss specific weapon hip-fire accuracy then. I’d probably give that gun a pass.

Personally I don’t have problems with bolt-actions at medium range, but that’s just my experience. I do not use them at close range.[/quote]

The discussion isn’t about close range or even medium range. And you completely ignored all my questions again. So I guess we’re done.

[Jesus2]

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]You didn’t list why. I’ve asked you many times to list out why with specific questions. How does it make the game better overall, how it improves the mercs…what do we gain that is a positive?

We have consistent game physics that provide a baseline equivalency for all weapons.

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]
You have never done this and instead use marketing terms or random words to make it sound like you said something when you simply avoided the question. And now you’re getting all obstinate about it and keep saying that I am “confusing” things when in reality you’re simply ducking the questions or don’t have a good answer.[/quote]

It is not my fault that you don’t agree/disagree/understand that universal constants are necessary for consistency.

Apparently the Revivr gun nerf was completely unnecessary in your version of Dirty Bomb. One-shotting mercs from across the map took skill and timing. It was a valid playstyle, no?

See what I did there? Wild conjecture and speculation is a two-way street.

Do you want to see bolt-actions fire accurately from the hip? It’s a universal mechanic and it fits within what you want. So do you want this yes or no?

I want all weapons to use the same physics model. This isn’t Quake and you aren’t hefting around a rail gun. If and when they do add in a rail gun we can discuss specific weapon hip-fire accuracy then. I’d probably give that gun a pass.

Personally I don’t have problems with bolt-actions at medium range, but that’s just my experience. I do not use them at close range.[/quote]

Now you are being inconsistent with yourself.
You are saying basically “I dont want Sniper Rifle to get no RNG cause all the other weapon have RNG and i want all weapon to run the same physics”
But then if every gun is running the same physics model Sniper Rifle first hipfire bullet should be ultra accurate and the following less accurate then… Just like any other gun hipfiring, but you dont want that and you deny it with “we are not in quake”. You know what lacks consistency now ? Your argument. Now you just look like you hate Vassili so every nerf will be deserved in your opinion because you dont play him and you dont like people outskilling you with him.

[MTLMortis]

…But then if every gun is running the same physics model Sniper Rifle first hipfire bullet should be ultra accurate and the following less accurate then… Just like any other gun hipfiring, but you dont want that and you deny it with “we are not in quake”. You know what lacks consistency now ? Your argument. Now you just look like you hate Vassili so every nerf will be deserved in your opinion because you dont play him and you dont like people outskilling you with him.

Please add some comprehension to the reading you are allegedly doing because you, along with a whole host of other people here, are adding reams of conjecture to what I actually said.

[Jesus2]

Well it seems pretty clear to me:
Amerika asked you:

[quote=“Amerika;149773”]
Do you want to see bolt-actions fire accurately from the hip? It’s a universal mechanic and it fits within what you want. So do you want this yes or no?[/quote]

and you answered:

I want all weapons to use the same physics model. This isn’t Quake and you aren’t hefting around a rail gun. If and when they do add in a rail gun we can discuss specific weapon hip-fire accuracy then. I’d probably give that gun a pass.

I assumed the Italic statement was a “No” answer to the question he asked you. And he its not, then he was right you still evaded his question and did non answer him. The only answer you can give him to be consistent with your logic bolded in the quote is yes.

So now are you consistent with yourself and want Bolt Rifle to shoot accurately from the hip?
Or
Are you inconsistent with your own logic and dont want to see that happen ?

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“Jesus;149963”]
So now are you consistent with yourself and want Bolt Rifle to shoot accurately from the hip?
Or
Are you inconsistent with your own logic and dont want to see that happen ?[/quote]

More reading comprehension fail…

Was that part of the scoped change that was applied to all mercs? No.

I don’t do the semantic argument dance, it’s weaksauce. Let me know when you have an actual item to discuss. We can talk then.

It’s all a moot point anyways:

“There are no plans to remove the jump spread for jump-sniping. The reason for this is because jump sniping is frustrating to play against because you almost never see it coming and counter play is very important in competitive FPS”

source: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/24194/dev-stream-round-up-15th-february-2016-smooth-special/p1

So we will all have to do that thing I said earlier. Learn to deal with it and adapt.