Would you like a monetization system based on cosmetic items and not on mercs ? (ie CS GO, TF2)

(kittenishBlender) #1

Hello, I’ve created this poll because I’m really concerned by the actual cash shop of Dirty bomb.
As many of you may have seen it, the current prices (both in real money and virtual money) is too expensive.

Thing is, on other forums & websites (mostly french ones since I’m french), I’ve seen that people are reluctant to play this game just because of the monetization system implemented. Some of my friends that I also tried to convince to play refused when I told them about the cash shop…

I’m worry about the fact that this game may end exactly like Tribes Ascend, which was a great game but with a bad monetization system, because you had to pay for new classes || types of gameplay. Thus this game was eventually deserted.

To illustrate what I’m saying:
In a reddit post, hi rez made a post stating that tribes didn’t make them profits, and it’s only thanks to Smite that they are keeping T:A servers alive.

What I want to point out is that Dirty bomb might meet the same fate (since your cash shop is similar to T:A ones) if things don’t change…

Nowadays (maybe I’m wrong) I think that players are more willing to pay in real money for things like skins & cosmetic items in general. If you take a look at games like Path of exile, or TF2, or even CS:GO (though it’s not F2P), they are making a loads of money as we speak.

Why ? Because they’re not selling gameplay but rather cosmetics items, for instance Valve has increased its revenue by a factor of twelve when they made TF2 a F2P.

So, @MissMurder if you are really willing to make this game a huge success and not end up, in like 2 years (Dirty bomb will be fully released until then if I’m not wrong), with a few amount of players (like 300-1000) to end up with deserted servers. You should consider this, and bring this poll to Dirty bomb devs.

PS : And for those who already bought mercs, you can, for instance (I know it might be really hard or even impossible) refund them or give them cosmetics items for the merc they bought.

(crimsonYouth) #2

Obviously YES! :slight_smile:
It is only hurting a competitive game having a pay wall blocking people from fully being able to compete on an even playing field.

(hotpinkReel) #3

Pay to skip the grind is better than p2w, but pay for cosmetics is superior. One of the great downsides of F2P has been the preponderance of unfun grindy mechanics designed to lessen enjoyment and thereby coerce money out of the players. In essence, the player is paying the developer to avoid game content; the grind. This seems absurd to me. Paying the dev so that you don’t have to play the game.

If the grind is tolerable and fun, and the only reason to buy is for impatience, that’s okay. I’ve played games that have done that well. But that’s more the exception than the rule. It’s far better to dodge the whole controversy and problems with balancing the grind by selling cosmetics.

(Eox) #4

Definitely yes. TF2’s and CS:GO’s monetization systems are the least complained about for a reason.

(R5on11c) #5

I’d advocate for no. not because i agree with the current monetization but because cosmetic monetization does not work in a game that is not known too much. TF2 and CS:GO had a prime position for cosmetic monetization when they released the feature, other games that don’t have the playerbase can’t thrive on that.

A good example for that is Loadout. It had cosmetics aswell as taunts for real life money. But barely anyone wanted to invest real life money for virtual cosmetics in a game they had nothing to prove or display.

In my honest opinion the release should split the posilbilities into a complete pack and a F2P version that doesn’t automatically support mercs ( a better version would simply not allow the loadout system for the mercs that are not unlocked).

The game is neither in a state that would allow cosmetics to consume time and money to be implemented into the game nor would it help to much. The comparisons to all-time-burner like CS:GO and TF2 don’t work as they had a much , MUCH bigger playerbase as they implemented cosmetics. CS was already worldwide known from is predecessor and TF2 didn’t have items for years until they released the Mann Co store and with it buyable cosmetics.

So no, i don’t agree with any of the answers because they don’t differenciate enough. You can’t solve every problem Valve style if you don’t have the base to work on.

(kittenishBlender) #6

[left][quote=“R5on11c;17559”]I’d advocate for no. not because i agree with the current monetization but because cosmetic monetization does not work in a game that is not known too much. TF2 and CS:GO had a prime position for cosmetic monetization when they released the feature, other games that don’t have the playerbase can’t thrive on that.

A good example for that is Loadout. It had cosmetics aswell as taunts for real life money. But barely anyone wanted to invest real life money for virtual cosmetics in a game they had nothing to prove or display.

In my honest opinion the release should split the posilbilities into a complete pack and a F2P version that doesn’t automatically support mercs ( a better version would simply not allow the loadout system for the mercs that are not unlocked).

The game is neither in a state that would allow cosmetics to consume time and money to be implemented into the game nor would it help to much. The comparisons to all-time-burner like CS:GO and TF2 don’t work as they had a much , MUCH bigger playerbase as they implemented cosmetics. CS was already worldwide known from is predecessor and TF2 didn’t have items for years until they released the Mann Co store and with it buyable cosmetics.

So no, i don’t agree with any of the answers because they don’t differenciate enough. You can’t solve every problem Valve style if you don’t have the base to work on.[/quote]

For what you said about loadout, the problem with this game is that edge of reality proposed insane prices for Spacebux (the virtual money in this game), you had to pay tons of money to get spacebux that didn’t even allow you to fully customize your character. This is why only a few amount of players deciced to invest on this game. Moremover we are talking about a game with a budget ( I guess) that was limited. Hence the ingame content was quite poor. Which also explained why this game has also been deserted.
Loadout cash shop idea was an excellent initiative, the problem is that the devs have screwed it up .

About my comparison, I think that TF2 and cs go cash shop worked like a charm because both the ingame content and the quality of the game are great.

If Dirty bomb uses the same system, it might also work (I’m not a soothsayer so I’m only supposing) since its content is really good for a F2P:
-20 differents mercs (though 7 are currently avaibles)
-Maps that offer a really good replay values, (don’t know how many maps they will realease though)
-And it’s not a pay 2 win
And finally the quality (means the gameplay) also follows, I don’t know about you but so far I love this game.[/left]

(R5on11c) #7

It still won’t work out in the big picture because:

  1. You don’t have the playerbase and connected with that, interest to invest money into in game content that won’t affect the gameplay.
  2. Considering the devs need their time in the current state to develope the game itself, they won’t have the time to bother them into implementing additional cosmetic features and models.

I am not saying it won’t work out at all, but the game itself should be in a fully developed state (=releasable) to consider to implement cosmetic features. The players would want to know what the game is all about before investing into 5 pages of alternative attire for their proxy…

(kittenishBlender) #8

[left]Well, we are still in closed beta, I’m not a fool (maybe a little), I know that even if (by some kind of magics) SD decides to remake their monetization system, it won’t happen now, but more likely, only when the game will be fully released.

About the base player, think about it, would a lambda player rather pay for gameplay or a cosmetic:
If he has to pay for a new merc there’s a low probability he will buy it, and even so, if he’s interested by another merc, he would either have to farm a lot (like we are currently doing) or to pay Which might ends up with him stop playing this game : “oh well, this game is funny but I don’t really like the way I have to farm or to pay for a new merc”.

If he has to pay for a cosmectic, he will obviously not pay for it immediatly. He has to know if it is worth playing and more generaly, he would say “should I invest some moneys on this game”. It might take a long time, but if he likes one of the merc, he will probably be willing to pay for a cosmetic item for him: “well, It won’t hurt if I customize my lovely merc”.

And with the time he will probably keep playing this game, which means he will also probably play other mercs, and again, if he likes one of them, he might also buy a cosmetic item.

And indeed, a player has to know if a F2P game is worth paying for, but he will certainly be more reticant if he has to pay for a merc than for a skin.

It might sounds obvious but in F2P world, seeing that you have to pay for gameplay is one of the best way to refrain a player from playing (therefore paying) it.

I know that what we are asking for implies a loads of work for SD, they’ll have to remake their business plan, think about cosmetic items and new designs for mercs.[/left]

(umberInlet) #9

I’ll say yes, but I probanly won’t make any sort of purchases unless they are reasonable and look great. Oh, and the game needs to be in a state where I can guarantee that I would be playing for a long time.

(Zenity) #10

Would you like world peace? It’s a silly question really… that doesn’t mean it’s realistic.

You can name a couple of successful examples, what you are missing is the countless ones which failed. The failed projects are always invisible, unless you are a game developer who has to research this stuff and figure out how to pay the rent.

It’s great to see the cosmetics model (which is really “pay what you want” in essence) making some inroads, but so far it’s only really working with massive mass market (or super low budget) titles. Dirty Bomb would take a huge risk going down that road, because it’s much more of a hardcore niche game and as it stands it isn’t extremely suitable for cosmetics either.

I want the game to survive first and foremost, and I am absolutely okay with the current business model. Would I prefer cosmetics only? Well, duh. If the devs can make it work, then they’ll be my next heroes. But I will still support them if they can’t.

(Thai-San) #11

To be honest:
As it is right now I’d spend like 20 € in this game, even though I really enjoy it and I love to support devs I like.
Just because I like to have something that I want and have to play for it.

But if it were for cosmetics and stuff I’d have a reason to give maney and then I’m willing to pay for it. New skin for sawbonez? A new hat? Some Nice weapon tags drangeling around from my gun? Gimme gimme gimme.
But paying for a mery? No, I’d rather play a few ours with my other mercs to get him.

(Szakalot) #12

Can people please stop bringing up CS:GO - it is NOT a F2P game <- monetization system need no apply

(Dwu) #13

You really bitch about csgo costing 13,99 euros regularily and 12 times a year they sell it for like 3-7 euros. To most people 13 euros for a full game is as good as it being free, I mean two large packs of marlboro costs about that much in Finland.
I mean id rather pay flat 30-50 bucks up front to have every single mercenary and all the upcoming ones, that should the very least be an option.

(Ardez1) #14

[quote=“kittenishBlender;10507”]Hello, I’ve created this poll because I’m really concerned by the actual cash shop of Dirty bomb.
As many of you may have seen it, the current prices (both in real money and virtual money) is too expensive.

Thing is, on other forums & websites (mostly french ones since I’m french), I’ve seen that people are reluctant to play this game just because of the monetization system implemented. Some of my friends that I also tried to convince to play refused when I told them about the cash shop…

I’m worry about the fact that this game may end exactly like Tribes Ascend, which was a great game but with a bad monetization system, because you had to pay for new classes || types of gameplay. Thus this game was eventually deserted.

To illustrate what I’m saying:
In a reddit post, hi rez made a post stating that tribes didn’t make them profits, and it’s only thanks to Smite that they are keeping T:A servers alive.

What I want to point out is that Dirty bomb might meet the same fate (since your cash shop is similar to T:A ones) if things don’t change…

Nowadays (maybe I’m wrong) I think that players are more willing to pay in real money for things like skins & cosmetic items in general. If you take a look at games like Path of exile, or TF2, or even CS:GO (though it’s not F2P), they are making a loads of money as we speak.

Why ? Because they’re not selling gameplay but rather cosmetics items, for instance Valve has increased its revenue by a factor of twelve when they made TF2 a F2P.

So, @MissMurder if you are really willing to make this game a huge success and not end up, in like 2 years (Dirty bomb will be fully released until then if I’m not wrong), with a few amount of players (like 300-1000) to end up with deserted servers. You should consider this, and bring this poll to Dirty bomb devs.

PS : And for those who already bought mercs, you can, for instance (I know it might be really hard or even impossible) refund them or give them cosmetics items for the merc they bought.[/quote]

You say that like buying WEAPONS in TF2 is purely cosmetic. They actually greatly change gameplay. If you would like to point out their random weapon drops as a way around buying them then I would like to point out random case drops in DB as well :slight_smile: However if you bring up their active trading market I would have no response, but I would love DB to adopt a trading system if feasible.

As an additional note, This is not a sequel. There is no readily available fanbase already sold on the concept like TF2(Please note the two in the name) and DB didn’t start as a mod for a game.

I would like to also point out that TF2 started as p2p and transitioned AFTER a very successful release due in part to the other games included in The Orange Box. I am actually fairly certain more people purchased The Orange Box for HL2 and Portal than TF2. It didn’t NEED a monetization system because other games carried it to success. The fact that it was a good game made people stick around. The cosmetic monetization allowed it to proceed to huge profits AFTER the game had already been sold to over 3 million people as part of The Orange Box(As of December, 2008 which was 14 months after release).

Simply put, it is VERY hard to compare the situation DB is in with TF2 - As much as I like the idea of charging for cosmetics instead of gameplay.

(crimsonYouth) #15

This is exactly what is happening. They are making the game unbearable to play for free therefore getting people to pay them to skip the BS and just play the game… they might as well charge full price and remove the BS.

(srswizard) #16

I’m all for a cosmetic monetization system, but right now I wouldn’t throw my money at them, even if I could buy fancy hats and sunglasses for my mercs.
First I wan’t to see some proof, that the devs are capable of ridding the game of the gamebreaking bugs.

The game runs very poorly too, and I don’t feel comfortable paying for a game with these kind of issues.

If these bumps can be ironed out, I’ll gladly support the game, by buying cosmetics.

(Humbug) #17

I totally hated the TF2 system, you have all classes, but only shitweapons and you get only 1? random drop every week no matter how much you play.
I instantly quit playing this, when I realized I can’t compete for some months.
In DB i got sawbonez at day 1, crafted a loadout card at day 2 and I’m happy since then.

I think 5 mercs free (1medic/1firesupp/1assault/1sniper/1engi) at all times would be really fair though.
A system purely based on cosmetics like in dota would be great of course, but TF2 was totally pay to win, or grind your ass of for MONTHS. Dirty bomb is much better in that regard in my opinion. Not sure what to vote xD

(srswizard) #18

@Humbug what you’re saying about TF2 is completely misinformed.
The default weapons are the best choice 9 out of 10 times.
The only grind in TF2 is learning the game mechanics, and getting good.

(Humbug) #19

[quote=“srswizard;17600”]@Humbug what you’re saying about TF2 is completely misinformed.
The default weapons are the best choice 9 out of 10 times.
The only grind in TF2 is learning the game mechanics, and getting good.[/quote]

No?
I looked it up in the wiki of course, I know the weapons are meant to be balanced, but I didn’t like most default weapons. And most good players i saw didn’t use default weapons aswell. And yes grind was the wrong word, because you couldn’t grind those random drops since they where limited per week. There was no chance to get the weapons i would have liked other than paying money. And weapons are very important in shooters.
Pay to customize your weapon, good job valve

(Ardez1) #20

[quote=“Humbug;17602”][quote=“srswizard;17600”]@Humbug what you’re saying about TF2 is completely misinformed.
The default weapons are the best choice 9 out of 10 times.
The only grind in TF2 is learning the game mechanics, and getting good.[/quote]

No?
I looked it up in the wiki of course, I know the weapons are meant to be balanced, but I didn’t like most default weapons. And most good players i saw didn’t use default weapons aswell. And yes grind was the wrong word, because you couldn’t grind those random drops since they where limited per week. There was no chance to get the weapons i would have liked other than paying money. And weapons are very important in shooters.
Pay to customize your weapon, good job valve[/quote]

You must not like trying very hard.

TF2 Item Drop System - https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Item_drop_system#Current_system

Most non strange or unique/named weapons trade 1 for 1 because each one is worth half a ‘scrap’. You could very very easily get a weapon you want by trading 1 scrap for that weapon. For anybody not informed, you can create 1 scrap by destroying 2 items in your backpack(inventory). It takes roughly 30-50 minutes per item drop, so two hours of gameplay would guarantee you a weapon that you want. The only weapons that were worth buying were because they were brand new and rarely found right away. This meant most items sold best on release rather than later.