Working with the idea of "Ultimates" and additional abilities...

(tokamak) #21

You mean multiple team-mates using their own ultimate at the same time? That’s just teamwork. If they’re willing to invest so much into one move then the other team can do the same.

(Alchemy) #22

That’s what i’m saying, its going to become save ults, use ults, both teams die or mass rez w.e but the stalemate won’t change.

(tokamak) #23

That’s only true with a very narrow and simple definition of ‘ultimate’.

-How does a player acquire an ultimate?
-Does every merc acquire it in the same way or does it vary?
-Are there multiple different ways to acquire an ultimate and if so, can they even be combined?
-Does the progress towards an ultimate decay or is it permanent until the ultimate is reached?

  • If the progress decays, does it decay over time or upon respawn?

All these questions need to be answered first before you can just assume that players are able to easily save up their ultimates for some easy win.

And all of that is already granting that an ultimate is some simplistic BFG. Which will unlikely be the case. Ultimates can be powerful abilities that benefit the team in more ways than merely killing opponents.

(INF3RN0) #24

[QUOTE=Alchemy;510546]quake is the king of aim and movement FPS, ofc within that are the powerup timings, mind games, map knowledge, but core game play is shooting him and moving so he doesn’t shoot you.
[/QUOTE]

Power ups, item timings, map control, etc are not just a side show… mega health, armor, weapon drops… yea you need to aim and move that’s a given, but have you played duel? It’s the reason why the meta masters with great aim beat out unarguably better aimers with less game sense. It would be a similar experience here, but with way more reinforced balance. What I see is fear and doubt from a single bad experience, but not realizing that similar systems already have been embraced by hardcore competitive gaming. Then again there’s an attitude I see in game all the time, where people feel the need to blame something for being the lame reason they died even when it’s a completely miniscule variable by comparison or a level field of opportunity. If it was oversimplified to just raw skill then in the short term it would all feel rewarding, but after people got over themselves they’d realize the game was as shallow as a puddle… *cough shootmania.

(PixelTwitch) #25

The reason I want this stuff is cause I am bored of hogging the top of the score board…
My aim is good and my movement is better…

The game feels shallow as they come.
I do not deserve to do as well as I do simply because I know how to Press A and D while tracking headshots…

(Alchemy) #26

[QUOTE=tokamak;510552]That’s only true with a very narrow and simple definition of ‘ultimate’.

-How does a player acquire an ultimate?
-Does every merc acquire it in the same way or does it vary?
-Are there multiple different ways to acquire an ultimate and if so, can they even be combined?
-Does the progress towards an ultimate decay or is it permanent until the ultimate is reached?

  • If the progress decays, does it decay over time or upon respawn?

All these questions need to be answered first before you can just assume that players are able to easily save up their ultimates for some easy win.

And all of that is already granting that an ultimate is some simplistic BFG. Which will unlikely be the case. Ultimates can be powerful abilities that benefit the team in more ways than merely killing opponents.[/QUOTE]

Well, in context of current video games and this thread, Ultimates are gain though exp(lvl 6 dota/LoLHotS), kill streaks (CoD,Tribes:Ascend), and the new game Destiny and Firefall Ult’s were chargeup;d with dmg done and taken + powerups.

And there is a reason why it’s called an Ultimate, because all of the games i listed they are kinda BFG, but a lot were not simplistic (dota2- Void chrono can just as easily get your team wiped as it can wipe the other team) but still very powerful. And others are just press R and wipe team(destiny warlock bomb thingy \ tribes airstrike)

So unless you have some new way to make “Ultimate’s” i’m going to go by the current game models and how they are implemented.

(Alchemy) #27

What? I just acknowledge that powerup/item timings and map control are also important but not as important as hitting your rails, and not running into rockets and los the LG.

I’m sure fatal1ty still remembers all the DD/item timings and if they play on some of the older maps his map knowledge is still applicable, but if he play vs cooller while he derps around , mr wendel is still going to have a hard time. Aim and movement is still king in quake, cooller’s sick LG and rail % ring true.

And I didn’t list a “single bad experience” I have given you quite a few games that tried this and it doesn’t have a good track record tribes, titanfall, lol Blacklight: Retribution has hardsuits. Lol Even quake takes out takes out a lot of powerups - invisibility, haste, battlesuit(lol), and regen, for pro duels.

I don’t want to take away all of the abilities and make this a faster CSGO with SW. But I know that adding ‘ultimates’ by their very design are OP, add a level of passivity, create frustration for every one who doesn’t have ult up, and just a pure nightmare to balance.

I like the 1-2 abilities + 3 passives atm, if you guys just wanna rework them and create more synergy between mercs that sounds awesome. But I promise you, “ultimates” is not the way to go.

p.s shootmania was shallow because it had 2 weapons and one of the worst gamemodes i’ve ever seen in any game ever, only WoT 2 cap points mode or w.e is worst.

(Alchemy) #28

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;510565]The reason I want this stuff is cause I am bored of hogging the top of the score board…
My aim is good and my movement is better…

The game feels shallow as they come.
I do not deserve to do as well as I do simply because I know how to Press A and D while tracking headshots…[/QUOTE]

You get top points because it’s CB and very few people play this game atm, plus it’s pubs. Pubs are so bad in every game. We need more time with even teams, first what do higher tier players do 5v5 in pugs and scrims, then how does that trickle down to new players when there isn’t 1 dude going 50-5 and every one else is 5-15.

I think that’s what devs should be putting some effort into, Good matchmaking to keep tryhards like pixel and I away from new players. I would like to mention that CSGO has one of the best MM i’ve ever tried(i’ve played mostly everything) I’m DMR, with abt 180 ranked matches ( http://csgo-stats.com/alchemy838/ -im super bad at csgo) but i’ve gotten so many Ties and close games while maybe 10% ? are blow outs either way. I have no idea how they do it, but when i que up for ranked i know it’s a good chance to be a even game.

(tokamak) #29

Gee Alchemy, everybody here already agrees with you from the very start, repeatedly, that ultimates have been handled poorly in other games. Nobody wants that. What we have here, with the many different mercs, is a means to do something else.

(INF3RN0) #30

The cynicism on this forum since alpha has ruined most of the potential for an original game. Too many aimer egos that need a stripped down game to cope.

(PixelTwitch) #31

lol what I think is funny is that when the game goes open/releases and we actually get some really good players joining… A lot of the people trying to force this Aim/Movement based focus are going to be back on the forums complaining about it >.<

(tokamak) #32

That’s a discussion that has been waging for years now. We had the same discussion with Brink and before that it was already simmering with ETQW and the pro scene.

I think the purism is more a heuristic than an actual desire. In turn it’s worth understanding that these people have been seriously jaded by other shooters trying fancy **** and ruining potential genre-changers. So I understand why people are resisting any ideas that deviate from bare-bones shooting. It’s just that it’s a bit of a conversation stopper right now.

(warbie) #33

I think the ‘people’ just want something similar to what we had in ET. It’s not crazy hardcore, nor is it CoD or BF who sees who first wins either. When did you guys last go back and give ET a blast? It’s such a relief after the complete and utter dross we get on the PC these days.

(spookify) #34

Confused by this because the alpha was only shooting… That was basically it… Huge balance patches back in the day… There was no special movement nor real abilities… Way back in the day that is what SD was wanted feedback on… We have come full circle from that into the game we have now where the aim isnt really that bad. SD has worked very hard with spread, recoil, ROF and much more to give us the game we have now. We are now testing Jumping and advanced moves and see how they interact with shooting feedback we game SD back in Alpha… The advanced moves like Long Jump and double wall jump are crazy and I mean Crazy new compared to where we have come from… I assuming there’s going to be huge updates to double jump because it is only the second pass…

I am not seeing where your and pix’s comments are coming from because we just started testing Jumps and small scale advanced moves… Right now the servers seem so laggy the double jump looks like you teleport across the map…

I personally do hope some sweet abilities are put into the game to where it is just not a shooter. I also hope that SD doesnt go super crazy in movement like brink… I think you can use 50% of smart and make the game super fluid with advanced moves and trick jumps…

What I dont like and the only thing I can say negative about pix, is his play style and his comments are about shotgun. He is a great shot and really getting jumping down but using the speed of the shotgun with wall jump and long jump to get into a persons body is broke right now and it seems like he is wanting to keep that… Collisions are broke its that simple. Shotguns are also broke… (SD said there’s a bug) One shot is BS and a person passing through you is also BS. No disrespect but all this talk about Movement or advanced movement seems mute because we are in such an early stage in it and people just coping with it seems odd because we are testing it and it bound to change if even a little.

(INF3RN0) #35

Ideas and discussions for expanding the meta game and into features not native to the ET/ETQW universe were shot down on the daily in alpha times- much of which was either pure cynicism or bloated egos trying to pass blame. A lot of us just feel that the game play being entirely oriented around a few basic skills becomes rather repetitive and boring when you’ve already got sufficient mastery. This is all about adding extra depth to the game play that would make for a greater experience than aim+dodge+shoot. Something that defines DB as more than a generic shooter.

To note, I do enjoy high skill mechanics in game play- but they aren’t what motivate my interest or enjoyment. I’d much rather be immersed in dynamic and deeply strategical experience than wipe a pub with my aim skill any day.

(spookify) #36

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;510851]Ideas and discussions for expanding the meta game and into features not native to the ET/ETQW universe were shot down on the daily in alpha times- much of which was either pure cynicism or bloated egos trying to pass blame. A lot of us just feel that the game play being entirely oriented around a few basic skills becomes rather repetitive and boring when you’ve already got sufficient mastery. This is all about adding extra depth to the game play that would make for a greater experience than aim+dodge+shoot. Something that defines DB as more than a generic shooter.

To note, I do enjoy high skill mechanics in game play- but they aren’t what motivate my interest or enjoyment. I’d much rather be immersed in dynamic and deeply strategical experience than wipe a pub with my aim skill any day.[/QUOTE]

I do see your point and totally agree. Pix’s idea of super abilities can be game and round changers especially in comp. Could you imagine a very good team that moves together use Pix’s SAW “Adrenalin shot” Ability as a shield to break an enemy camp? That is the benefit of super abilities as they can turn the tide.

This got me thinking about Deaths and Comp… You know in LOL when you die it add’s time and if one person dies and is out it can turn the tide… Just and Idea but would if you have your base spawn time and anything after 5 deaths adds an additional second or half a second… That seems like a huge advantage. Heck it could even be an ability of a merc…

NEW MERC:

Reaper
Gun: Soul Shooter (Mix or Artys AR and Stocker) (Slower ROF then STOCKER but auto) (Like a super fast Smoke puff machine scales down into bullet size)
Ability 1 (Passive) - Gibs enemy body just by being near them 10 feet (emits Ora)
Ability 2 (Passive) - Becomes a “Team Lead” Like in BF3 and people can Spawn on him (Because he can gather souls into rebirth)
Super Ability (Active with Gun) - Add’s 5 seconds to direct enemy kills - Adds 7 Seconds to/for gibbing enemy - adds 1 second for assist to enemy spawn. (Because he is the controller of death) (Play with the numbers…) (3 and 5 seconds) or after 5 kills of your Nemesis so on and so forth…

Side Idea/ability (Active) - Slow Nade and HP drain - Nade that exploses into ground effect of 10 years slowing any enemy caught in it and slowly drains HP as same level as normal HP self Regen.

With all this talk of abilities and all the I would like to see longer TTK to make these abilities stick out… I know I know thats like 15 HS with phoenix and other classes and I am not talking a huge about of damage reductions but at least a little. Maybe thats what these super abilities will do… crates doesnt seem to be effecting ttk sooo I am open to anything…