With a Balancing Update in the near-ish future,

[STARRYSOCK]

@STARRYSOCK said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Nope, increase the fuse time and add cooking, will fix a lot of issues.

No, please no. It’s the same issue with fragger’s grenade tbh. When you add the ability to cook grenades, you remove most of the chance for enemies to dodge it, which is really just cheap.

I disagree with that being an issue, it takes a lot of educated guess work to plant a solid nade. You need to spawns, timing, etc, so it’s not as if the Fragger didn’t earn the kill.

By your logic hit scan is overpowered, because you can’t dodge instant bullets.

Most hitscan weapons don’t instantly kill you, lol. Of course it takes skill, I’ve just always been against unavoidable one-shot kills in pvp games. It’s why I don’t play games like CS:GO, it just feels cheap to me. I always feel that an opponent should have the opportunity to fight back.

Randomly getting blown up from across the map isn’t fun, it’s cheap. Besides, there’s luck involved with everything. When that luck happens on one bullet, it’s no big deal. When you just happen to get a grenade kill without trying, that’s a lot bigger xP

[watsyurdeal]

@STARRYSOCK said:

@STARRYSOCK said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Nope, increase the fuse time and add cooking, will fix a lot of issues.

No, please no. It’s the same issue with fragger’s grenade tbh. When you add the ability to cook grenades, you remove most of the chance for enemies to dodge it, which is really just cheap.

I disagree with that being an issue, it takes a lot of educated guess work to plant a solid nade. You need to spawns, timing, etc, so it’s not as if the Fragger didn’t earn the kill.

By your logic hit scan is overpowered, because you can’t dodge instant bullets.

Most hitscan weapons don’t instantly kill you, lol. Of course it takes skill, I’ve just always been against unavoidable one-shot kills in pvp games. It’s why I don’t play games like CS:GO, it just feels cheap to me. I always feel that an opponent should have the opportunity to fight back.

Randomly getting blown up from across the map isn’t fun, it’s cheap. Besides, there’s luck involved with everything. When that luck happens on one bullet, it’s no big deal. When you just happen to get a grenade kill without trying, that’s a lot bigger xP

You do have a chance, when the Fragger is cooking he is immobile, and easy to kill, and if he kills with a long range nade that he planted perfectly. I’m sorry but he earned that kill, you can be mad all you want but the fact is he put in the effort and was rewarded. Comparing that to the AWP is a joke. That and the flashbang is so much worse, cause it literally takes no effort, and borderline impossible to see coming, we aren’t playing CS, yet we have to spot and look away to avoid a flash bang in hectic fights.

[STARRYSOCK]

@watsyurdeal said:

You do have a chance, when the Fragger is cooking he is immobile, and easy to kill, and if he kills with a long range nade that he planted perfectly. I’m sorry but he earned that kill, you can be mad all you want but the fact is he put in the effort and was rewarded. Comparing that to the AWP is a joke. That and the flashbang is so much worse, cause it literally takes no effort, and borderline impossible to see coming, we aren’t playing CS, yet we have to spot and look away to avoid a flash bang in hectic fights.

So? Dodging things is part of the game too. If anything the movement system is one of the main features of this game, it’s not just about guns. Dodging fire is just part of the game.
The same applies to the frag grenade too though, lol. Most players don’t actually calculate their throw, they don’t look at spawn times, they just hold it for a couple seconds and then throw it. In that regard, it’s identical to the concussion grenade. Something that is impossible to avoid.

I’m not saying the concussion grenade isn’t bad, just that allowing for an unavoidable concussion is. DB’s maps aren’t flat, there are plenty of corners you can hide behind. Sure the merc is vulnerable while cooking, but that’s only if people can actually see them. Randomly throwing a cooked grenade around a corner isn’t necessarily an earned kill, but it’s always an unavoidable death, that’s what I mean. And just as being blown up results in death, a concussion is an almost assured death too.

[Xenithos]

@TheStrangerous said:

• Phantom Balance
  What’s wrong with Phantom?
  You wanting a buff or a nerf?

[watsyurdeal]

@STARRYSOCK said:

@watsyurdeal said:

You do have a chance, when the Fragger is cooking he is immobile, and easy to kill, and if he kills with a long range nade that he planted perfectly. I’m sorry but he earned that kill, you can be mad all you want but the fact is he put in the effort and was rewarded. Comparing that to the AWP is a joke. That and the flashbang is so much worse, cause it literally takes no effort, and borderline impossible to see coming, we aren’t playing CS, yet we have to spot and look away to avoid a flash bang in hectic fights.

So? Dodging things is part of the game too. If anything the movement system is one of the main features of this game, it’s not just about guns. Dodging fire is just part of the game.
The same applies to the frag grenade too though, lol. Most players don’t actually calculate their throw, they don’t look at spawn times, they just hold it for a couple seconds and then throw it. In that regard, it’s identical to the concussion grenade. Something that is impossible to avoid.

I’m not saying the concussion grenade isn’t bad, just that allowing for an unavoidable concussion is. DB’s maps aren’t flat, there are plenty of corners you can hide behind. Sure the merc is vulnerable while cooking, but that’s only if people can actually see them. Randomly throwing a cooked grenade around a corner isn’t necessarily an earned kill, but it’s always an unavoidable death, that’s what I mean. And just as being blown up results in death, a concussion is an almost assured death too.

So what? We nerf it some more? At this rate it will basically be pointless.

There’s a lot of things that you could say are unavoidable, but that’s why you have your team to back you up. In your scenario in competive or ranked for example, assuming that nade doesn’t drop both your team’s medics, you should be fine. Especially since you can still revive your allies as long as they are not gibbed. Compared to how the nade used to be, it’s hardly a problem nowadays.

[Xenithos]

@watsyurdeal said:
Red Eye

• HP changed to 110, Speed changed to 420

I see what you did there.

[watsyurdeal]

@Xenithos said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Red Eye

• HP changed to 110, Speed changed to 420

I see what you did there.

I think it’s fair, it’d pair well with the Quick Eye perk for example, one of the main reasons I like to use Aimee over Red Eye with the Grandeur

[Xenithos]

@Potato_Ladder said:
Nerf
Hochfir(Either damage or fire rate nerf, this thing is way too powerful even in the hands of a new player because of its fire rate and stability)
You better not touch my fudging Hochfir besides removing it from that slut Proxy.

Nerf/Buff
Sparks(give her actual guns instead of machine pistols for main weapon and encourage people to actually revive with it instead of sniping and allow her health pack to be thrown further because of its size.)
… Do you even realize how powerful that would make Sparks? Could you imagine giving her a real gun? Fastest character in the game has instant revive, instant healing packs, and a real gun. Sure, we WANT her to have some real firepower, but it’s just asking too much man.
! Also, if you want to fix the whole sniping (which is actually how it was DESIGNED mate) you’d have to just remove the revivr from her completely, and give her a prefire shot to instantly revive someone to full as a battery on a gauntlet on her arm, that she can just shoot someone with to revive them instantly, and THAT has to charge. That way you remove sniping with her Revivr?

Actually, that’s a great idea, even if you didn’t come up with it. But nonetheless, you can’t fix stupid.

Buff
Sawbonez(increase the amount of health regen he receives when he heals himself.)

Fletcher(makes his sticky bomb more reliable)

Nope, and… skill related problem? Or do you mean the fact that it bounces off the EV?

[Xenithos]

@STARRYSOCK said:
! > > @watsyurdeal said:
! > > Nope, increase the fuse time and add cooking, will fix a lot of issues.
! >
! > No, please no. It’s the same issue with fragger’s grenade tbh. When you add the ability to cook grenades, you remove most of the chance for enemies to dodge it, which is really just cheap.
! >
! > I would support slightly longer fuse time doe to how large the grenade’s AoE is, but the ability to cook them would just make them even more overpowered and annoying.>
! >
! > > @Verticules said:
! > > No suggestions on how, please keep it simple.
! >
! > The issue is that there’s a lot of ways things can be reworked in this game, and there’s a lot of different opinions on how. Just saying “shotguns” doesn’t really help anyone.
! >
! > -Arty is fine, maybe just a slightly longer cooldown and delay between when airstrikes can be called.
! > -All bush needs is a slightly shorter cooldown and his turret to face him when it’s deployed, which would allow for better positioning.
! > -For thunder, maybe 10 or so less health, more spread on his LMG, and a slightly increased concussion grenade cooldown and fuse time.
! > -Burst rifles are alright, honestly. Maybe a slightly smaller clip on the BR.
! > -The only fix sniper rifles and shotguns need is for the cocking animation to finish after a weapon switch. As it is, it’s just too clunky and obtrusive.
! > -SMG9 is fine, idk why people keep wanting it changed.
! > -Kira is fine, lasers are easy to avoid if you pay any attention whatsoever. If anything she eneds a buff on where you can call a laser.
! > -Red eye needs an XP rework. Looking at people is not grounds for a topscore alone.
! > -Phantom is fine, he just needs an XP rework to encourage certain playstyles. People are trying to play him as he was before the rework, but that no longer works. Watch some of @Shinywindow’s phantom gameplay to see how he should be played.
! > -Health stations are fine, people just think for some reason they shouldn’t have to shoot it first instead of the enemies.
! > -Dreiss is fine, Grand could use a massive rework imo.

I like you. All of you. Wish I could spam that agree button more. Only thing I’m not completely on the same grounds with is might be Phantom.

[Xenithos]

On the topic of Fragger, I think his frags are fine when they’re NOT used to spawn camp a team when he can simply turn a corner and get two instant kills. Because of the need to cook it, and him being slower and not shooting, most experienced players can kill him in that moment if they see him, or dodge it. It’s when you don’t know it’s coming, you turn a corner and you and two other people instantly die that the salt even exists for him from me. This mainly happens on Bridge more than any other map from my personal experience.

If you’re dying to a fragger that you’re NOT seeing because he’s flanking often and you’re not keeping tabs on him, then that Frag is golden, and it’s being used as it should be. No complaints from me there if the Fragger happens to be smart.

This is a game built entirely around competitive play. Teamwork and communication are important, and when they’re there, skill becomes all the more important. Not the abilities.

[Xenithos]

In all honesty, I think most of balance is perception. DPS wise almost all weapons are balanced in a certain range of damage and accuracy. And those guns that are higher, are “harder to control.” And if they’ve got high damage and low recoil and high fire speed, it’s pretty likely their fall off range is small. (cough hochfir cough)

Alright, no more balance wish lists from me. As it’s not my game and I’m honestly just interested in what SD chooses to do. The best balancing pass they ever gave imo was the pistol changes anyway.

[Verticules]

I asked for a simple, “I want ______ balanced, one way or another.” I didn’t see the wall of text coming for me after work.

Interesting to hear some topics I hadn’t even realized were an issue or that some people feel are.

[GatoCommodore]

@Verticules said:
I asked for a simple, “I want ______ balanced, one way or another.” I didn’t see the wall of text coming for me after work.

Interesting to hear some topics I hadn’t even realized were an issue or that some people feel are.

making an issue of a problem that doesnt exist in the first place is the trend in 2016-2017

[Melinder]

@watsyurdeal said:

@STARRYSOCK said:

@watsyurdeal said:

You do have a chance, when the Fragger is cooking he is immobile, and easy to kill, and if he kills with a long range nade that he planted perfectly. I’m sorry but he earned that kill, you can be mad all you want but the fact is he put in the effort and was rewarded. Comparing that to the AWP is a joke. That and the flashbang is so much worse, cause it literally takes no effort, and borderline impossible to see coming, we aren’t playing CS, yet we have to spot and look away to avoid a flash bang in hectic fights.

So? Dodging things is part of the game too. If anything the movement system is one of the main features of this game, it’s not just about guns. Dodging fire is just part of the game.
The same applies to the frag grenade too though, lol. Most players don’t actually calculate their throw, they don’t look at spawn times, they just hold it for a couple seconds and then throw it. In that regard, it’s identical to the concussion grenade. Something that is impossible to avoid.

I’m not saying the concussion grenade isn’t bad, just that allowing for an unavoidable concussion is. DB’s maps aren’t flat, there are plenty of corners you can hide behind. Sure the merc is vulnerable while cooking, but that’s only if people can actually see them. Randomly throwing a cooked grenade around a corner isn’t necessarily an earned kill, but it’s always an unavoidable death, that’s what I mean. And just as being blown up results in death, a concussion is an almost assured death too.

In your scenario in competive or ranked for example, assuming that nade doesn’t drop both your team’s medics, you should be fine. Especially since you can still revive your allies as long as they are not gibbed.

The concussion grenades is an extended effect. A frag nade will explode, and players can immediately work on retaliating or reviving those who died. With the concussion grenade, there is a 3 second window where you have zero clue what is going on. Your team is dying around you, and you dont know where they or the ones shooting you are. Couple this with the fact that the concussion grenade will not have it’s effect absorbed by one person if placed infront of them, as well as the fact that is has a much larger explosion radius than the frag grenade.

Also, the concussion grenade’s flash effect is avoidable by turning away from it. Allowing it to be cooked makes that functionality useless.

[AlbinMatt]

Buff Bush, anything about him, please.

[Dieu-Sama]

Lower ROF of all snipers weapons

Reduce speed of Vaseline/Aimee/Red Eye to less than Rhino. I’m not kidding.

[Eox]

Nerfs I would like to see :

• Thunder - Screw those concs, seriously.
• Fletcher - Too good compared to other engies (aside from Turtle who is just too new). But other engies are also fairly obsolete.
• Sparks - Brings too much pressure to the opposite team, and shouldn’t have the best self sustain in the game : best self sustain is something that should belong to Phoenix. Too rewarding.
• Sniper rifles - Bodyshots are probably too rewarding. Snipers also tend to be a major issue in high level competitions.
• Burst Fire rifles - Stats too high, incredible burst damage potential. Just too good.

Reworks I would like to see :

• Bushwhacker - Nerfing Fletcher won’t be enough to make Bushwhacker viable (unless SD outright butchers him). Bushwhacker could use new tricks up his sleeves.
• Proxy - Same as Bushwhacker.
• Shotguns - The absolute newbie wrecker in pubs that tends to become a liability in competition. A major source of frustration in game. Yet, they probably can’t be outright nerfed due to how poor they tend to perform in a server full of good players, that would likely gun you down before you get in range.

Buffs I would like to see :

• (EDIT) Stoker - Aera denial potential is still bad, so is the offensive potential (tho I definitely think Stoker’s molotov shouldn’t be used to directly get kills like a frag grenade. I’ve been using him on Underground today : people were still ignoring the flames in multiple situations.

[henki000]

Nerf: All HP -55%, I would like to see results. This game is overall too much potshot. There is too little tactical teamwork to deal with jumping infinite healing medics.

Buff: All weapons +15% dmg. Headshot without helmet, instant kill.

[blufflord]

@henki000 said:
Nerf: All HP -55%, I would like to see results. This game is overall too much potshot. There is too little tactical teamwork to deal with jumping infinite healing medics.

Buff: All weapons +15% dmg. Headshot without helmet, instant kill.

If you have issues with such core components of this game, then i think you’re playing the wrong game lol. Higher TTK is one of the things that makes this game special from others.

[Mc1412013]

Buffs i would like to ses

Phantom given pdp
Rbino given his own med station
Aura ninja revive skill
Kir…

Oh wait were being serious?? f@#$ i got nothing then. Carry on nothing to see here.

Though a ninja medic would be cool