[WIP] Collaborating with Other Mappers

(Ifurita) #1

Collaborating With Other Mappers
Don’t have the time or expertise to build a complete map on your own? Collaborating with other mappers is one way of sharing some of the workload and learning new skills. Be careful though, it can either be a great team experience or it can be a frustrating nightmare of poor coordination, lost work, and unrealized expectations. Here are a couple of things you might want to consider when working with other mappers, modellers, artists, or scripters:

NOTE: These are notes compiled during my first collaborative mapping (w/ Mean Mr. Mustard, Seven_DC, and thegnat) event, which turned out to be a very pleasant experience - I thought.

Anyway, thought I’d share since it seems like a lot of people are collaborating with each other these days.

  1. Be open to, and in fact, solicit, suggestions, feedback, and comments - this is supposed to be a collaborative venture. Just because you are the project leader doesn’t mean that you have to come up with all the ideas or that other team members won’t have really good suggestions. Team members are also more willing to dedicate the time and effort to ‘your’ map if they feel like they have some ownership of the project.

  2. Keep in mind, that as the project owner, you’re ultimately responsible for the project success or failure. You are the one recruiting people for your team and are responsible for selecting people who can do the work and work well with you. You’re also the one that sets the direction of the project and the tone/themes of the map. You may also have to make most of the decisions.

  3. Coordinate, coordinate, coordinate!!! How large of a terrain mesh do you want? Are you using standard dimensions for hallways, door, and rooms? Is there a texture theme? How should the map flow. What are the timelines? Talk these issues out amongst the team and get agreement on where everyone needs to be working towards. Get agreement up front. It’s stressful when everyone comes back with their project pieces and they just don’t mesh.

  4. Get some agreement on how the team will communicate. E-mail is fine. You can also communicate in IRC or on a forum board – whatever makes it easy for the team to communicate. Don’t just automatically assume that everyone will want to communicate in the manner you like.

  5. Periodic updates, even to say you haven’t been working on anything, are great. It helps keep the team current on where everyone is.

  6. Break your map into stand alone pieces that can be worked on in parallel. Building terrain, laying out basic building blockouts, and creating entities/scripting can all be done at the same time and easily merged. This reduces the chances that you will duplicate the work of others. As you work on these pieces, remember to keep up a steady flow of communications regarding process and adherence to agreed upon themes.
    Sections of structures and terrain prefabs, such as tunnels can also be farmed out. However, before significant detail work is done, get some agreement on general placement and size. For example, before building out a tunnel in all it’s glory, block out the caulk hull, get agreement on start and end points, then, as the tunnel gets build, drop it into the existing map as a prefab to doublecheck that it still synchs with your original vision.

  7. Version Control! There is nothing worse than realizing two people made major edits to out-of-date files or the same file, which cannot be easily seperated. For example, if you spent hours trimming terrain brushes only to find out that your partner had moved the underground tunnels around, or that both people went though and applied different texture themes to the major buildings. If major changes are going to take place, figure out before hand who is going to make them and ensure no one else is working on the same file. Time and date stamping your .MAP file is helpful for making sure people are working off the latest versions.

  8. Conduct periodic process checks. Just because you think everything is going really well, doesn’t mean everyone else is. Is everyone communicating OK? Do team members feel like they are making valuable contributions to the project? Are you being too dictatorial? Is everyone doing what they signed up to do? What is going well with the project? What isn’t going to well and how can it be fixed? It’s always better to identify and deal with these issues proactively rather than to have a big blow up down the road. Failure to deal with these issues early just results in a lot of frustration and resentment.

Cheers - I’d love to hear other people’s suggestions or horror stories

(MadJack) #2

Great post Ifurita.

As with most stuff in life, COMMUNICATION is the key :smiley: You don’t talk, you’ll get into problems. Question is when, not if.

Ive been a lone worker on my maps and I’m wondering how you guys go at it when you start the process.

(seven_dc) #3

Working as a team member

I like to continue this wonderfull thread as a team member. and specially the team member that creates details.
This is just my way of working and I do not say that this is the ultimate way.

  1. Create a theme. First of all visualize what kind of stuff there should be in structures and outside. Good point is to realistic. World is full of details.
    You should go around in stock maps and look around in them to get some ideas. As a detailer you are responsible of the lighting. Make sure your include the lighting in your plans.

  2. Create set of prefabs into separate .map file and work with that file. It is easier and faster. You can use the .map file then to copy & paste parts
    into the final map. And this way you can work on details when other people are editing the map.

  3. func_group your details. They are easier to manage and move around. Do this beforehand in your prefab map file.

  4. Take your time. As a detailer your job is very slow and time consuming. Be sure that you do not leave unneccessary brushes lying around. Check the compiled map before giving others the map file.

  5. Give feedback to others. Be sure to give more positive feedback that motivates people more.

  6. Use same naming conventions that other do. Like we had month and day in our map filename as a version control.

Nexium problems

(Victorianetza) #4

Great Thread! i think it will be very helpful to many of us…

i am also a lone mapper. Therefore Ifurita’s post helps a lot…

i will write u my sequence of events, when making a map( it may be not appropriate but i am still improving my skill @ ET mapping)

  1. Clarify the map idea. Draw it on a separate sheet of paper with a pen. Think about the objectives
  2. Think about it for few hours/days.
  3. Create the terrain.
  4. When the terrain is done, start making the buildings/bunkers/caves with basic textures.
  5. When the general outlook of the map is ready have a look @ the objectives. Summarize them, and see if they are too much/little
  6. Begin the making of the objectives/spawns/commandposts/constructable/destructable elements.
  7. @ the same time, write ur script
  8. If problems occur, contact w/ other mappers
  9. Start adding the details of the map (long & boring)
  10. When everything above is done, create ur .pk3 @ test with (alone)
  11. When fix few bugs after the test, release a beta (public)
  12. When u get feedback, fix bugs/add/delete obj. release final.

thats all… i use this scheme for my future map - Sofia

(Ifurita) #5

Ive been a lone worker on my maps and I’m wondering how you guys go at it when you start the process.

I do a lot of sketches early and get feedback on those, then I block out stuff, insert the objectives, make a winnable map, then run around it a bit (and distribute it to a few others) for feedback on gameflow, connectivity, FPS, and layout

(MadJack) #6

That’s not what I meant :slight_smile:

I guess I should’ve been more specific. When you decide to start a collaboration map, first how do you chose your parners? Do you primarily go for people with experience or do you prefer complimentary mappers, those that have skills where you are lacking?

Once you found those associates, do you usually have an idea, sketch, basic components or rather a general idea waiting to be explored?

I have thought of forming a kind of team to start a project but I’m wondering about people’s abilities. A lot of people lack experience and having to explain mapping basics is putting me off. I wouldn’t want people to think I look down on them, I’m certainly lacking in areas but I think the basic idea to release a map as a team is to get it out asap, not take 4-6 months.

(Mean Mr. Mustard) #7

I can suggest a few things:

  1. Make sure your team members are reliable (nothing worse than having a mapping team, depending on others, only to find that you have to do all the work - which is not bad, if you planned it that way from the start). There were many delays in v2_factory waiting for team members to do their portions of the map. For various reasons, I receved very little or no input. I usually waited and waited, then said screw it and did that portion myself. If I knew I was not going to get input from my ‘team’ mates, I wouldn’t have waited and would have finished the map sooner.

  2. It is very important to keep all team members happy. We split sections of the map by asking who wants to do what part. Not only does this keep members interest, it also adds a little different flavor to each section.

  3. Working with a team can reduce map ‘burnout’. V2 Factory was almost my first/last map. It took way too long to complete, shouldering the entire burden. But then I assisted Ifurita, et al on Vengeance. It felt like I did very little, but yet the map was far better than I could have done individually. This team process has worked so well, Iffy, Seven_dc and I have 2 to 3 maps in the works (with help from CptnTriscuit and others)

(MadJack) #8

@ Mustard, I’ll have the decency not to ask who those “teammates” were :smiley:

But you resume my fears alright. I started a small map about a week ago and I have to say that I’m almost done. About 85%-90%, it’s not a big project (in a mapping sense) but having to wait for a part from another mapper when I could’ve done it in 2 to 4 hours would piss off so much. I have to admit that I have tons of free time being unemployed (too bad I start working next Monday, that means much less mapping) so that helps a lot. But as I said, I’m starting a new job on Monday and my free time will be much less and that’s why I’m leaning toward a team effort for the next projects but not really sure if I want to be aggravated.

(Ifurita) #9

Ability and compatiblity are key. The idea is to reduce everyone’s workload while turning out a superior product. While I don’t mind teaching, not that I have lots to teach, I’m not running a school for new mappers. I want to focus on making cool maps.

Compatability, especially ego-wise, is pretty critical. It’s nice to work with people who can check their egos at the door and really engage in some constructive feedback and commentary. It’s too easy to take criticism or suggestions personally and that can really hurt the team’s synergy.

So, what did I look for? People with demonstrated ability (turned out high quality maps, prefabs, and stuff on their own) and the demonstrated willingness to help people out on this forum - as an indicator of people I thought would be compatible with my personality.

That’s about it.

(MadJack) #10

Ifurita, I understand your point of view but for someone like me who would be tempted to start a mapping team, it’s a bit of a vicious circle. We “talk” on the forum, have general fun but we don’t really know each other and I won’t go into work habits. It’s not too hard to figure out who has the abilities you need but at that point you have no idea in a general sense if the person is reliable and the other person’s intentions might be really good but fails to come up with the goods. There are plenty of reasons why it could happen, personal life being the biggest I would assume, it’s surely rare the teammates just give up.

So, my point is, unless you participate with other mappers you won’t know if they can deliver. So in the end, it’s always a big risk when starting a collaboration effort, as Mr Mean Mustard’s first experience was.

(Ifurita) #11

You can always start off small. I started out working with Mustard on a couple of scripting tutorials and prefabs. We clicked nicely and that was that.

Giving people small pieces of your map are also a nice, low-risk way of evaluating people. Get them to do descrete pieces of prefab brushwork (buildings, structures, etc) with defined timelines. That way, if they do fall through or just show that they are not moving as fast as you want, you can replace them and move on. Hopefully, there are enough other things going on in the map to keep yourself busy while you wait on others.

I also have no problems interviewing potential team members, in fact, I recommend it. Get on IRC or AOL IM and talk about other teams they’ve worked with, what other projects they currently have going on, what are their expectations of the project, what they want to work on, etc. It’s not perfect, but does give you a couple more date points with which to make your decision.

(Ifurita) #12

BTW, I figure I’ll compile the rest of the feedback here and add it to the tutorial i have posted below

http://planetwolfenstein.com/4newbies/Collaborating.htm

(Mean Mr. Mustard) #13

@MadJack: I did not mean to discourage you from a team effort. I just wanted to point out that sometimes they don’t work out. My ‘bad’ experience stems from a ‘team’ of novice mapper (none of us knew radiant or ET scripting). Some of us learned faster than others, some could not participate because of ‘real’ life. All of which I understood. But I wished they would have said “I can’t work this, I need to drop out” etc instead of me just having to take it upon myslef to finish their parts of the map – oh well, it worked out for the better. I’m pleased with what I turned out.

I encourage team efforts. When they work, they work great! I would follow Iffy’s suggestions. Start with one person and give them a small task. I started out helping alot of maps with scripting (and still do). My first ‘collaboration’ was trying to get the darn truck in raiders to follow the terrain - so if any one has a complaint about - blame me :wink: I then helped Iffy debug the cap/grab items in byzantine. I wouldn’t really call those team efforts, but it set up vengeance.

We knew we could work together after the little help I provided in Byzantine. Then Iffy hood-winked seven_dc into doing detail work on Vengeance :wink:

But I say, give it a try. Ask some one you think can contribute to your map. Start out with a small piece, then add to it if it works out well. And don’t be afraid to say “this is not working out” - and cut your losses. If you need any scripting help, I’m usually a sucker and will help debug your map/script for you…

(Ifurita) #14

FWIW, building a mapping team is just like everything else, building a clan, hiring for a company, etc.

I think the first step is a self- and project-assessment. What is your style? How fast do you want to move? What is your level of competance? What skillsets do you have and what skillsets are you looking for?

Once you have that, you kind of know where the holes and and can start assessing people based on how well they fill gaps. You probably don’t want 3 scripting geniuses who can’t build a basic structure to save their lives. You may find someone who fits gaps really well, but has a not-so-compatible personality. On the other hand, you might find an average generalist with a really good work ethic and personality fit (I see myself fitting into this bucket) that would be a good general team asset.

Ask other mappers who good partners are. Learn from their experiences and grab the guys they’ve had good luck with. Of course, you’re map will have to be interesting enough to get people on board.

(cementosje) #15

i wanna help… cementos@hotmail.com

(Victorianetza) #16

maybe this is “outside of the theme of the thread” but i want to ask all the mappers who will read the thread.

I am developing a map (serious project) & i want to stay in touch with mappers (or just people which know how to play ET, & understand ET mapping )who can test my map often (when i ask them to) and tell me what the problems are/ possible solutions/new ideas… i will appreciate such if someone could fullfill my note… :smiley:

(Ifurita) #17

well, do you belong to any other forums? On what other servers do you play? Do they have forums? That would be a good place to start

(MadJack) #18

Gawd I wish I wasn’t tipsy/almost drunk, I’d have something intelligent to reply :eek:

@ Mr Mustard, don’t worry, you haven’t discouraged me. But let’s just say you haven’t completely made a believer out of me :wink: Maybe in time I’ll learn to know some people enough to trust them. But for now, I’ll finish that very important project and maybe when I’m done with Ebe I’ll be ready to consider mapping with other people. :slight_smile:

I’ll try to put some more comments when I can think clearly :smiley:

(seven_dc) #19

Nice one madjack. Everytime I get beer or two I found strange urge to come here. LOL

We knew we could work together after the little help I provided in Byzantine. Then Iffy hood-winked seven_dc into doing detail work on Vengeance

Yeah I sneaked without any notice. grabbed mappers uni and did some satcheling.

We are actually setting up little site. It is not on its proper place yeat. but take a look:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/seven/temp/et/losahd/

Wiki Vaporizer

(shazmax) #20

Well let me know if anyone wants to start a project…I’d be willing to throw some time into working some stuff out. Can’t say I’d be the greatest…but I’m up for it. What good is it if we’re in here discussing collaborating and no one collaborates.