Why no team damage?

(DeezNutz) #21
  • Half your team is in a small area having a gun fight with the enemy.
  • You throw a frag grenade or throw a airstrike or maybe even call god to send down a laser
  • … You killed half your team.
(Samniss_Arandeen) #22

I’ve had too many dumb teammates run in front of me, a Fragger who obviously has a nade in his hand, and bodyblocked my nade. Teamkills would only make this worse.

(Gi.Am) #23

FF-on should have been the default setting from the very beginning. If you learn the game with ff-on, you develop good ff-on habits from day one (not running into someones fireline, not firing when someone does it, giving a shout out when using explosives).

It certainly should be on in ranked. The whole idea is to let you experience the game in the competive setting and tournaments so far are all ff-on.
The Nexon SD showmatch actually showed what happend when teams that are used to ff-off suddenly gets thrown into ff-on. Alot of the TKs could have been avoided if they played more ff-on before, unfortunally there are no options right now for doing just that.

FF-on would cut down the mindless explosive spam and reduce braindead bullet spamming in CQC encounters.

The Devs actually stated that they would like to enable ff-on, but hesitate to do so without a good anti griefing system.

Personaly I take the griefing (its negative reinforcement to check your weapons / and to not jump into firelines). Besides alot of ff-on games/mods have good working anti griefing systems in place, that cut out most of it. They shouldn’t be that hard to do.

(B_Montiel) #24

You see, in this world there is two kind of people, my friend : those who prefer friendly fire turned on and those who spam. A lot spam.

With a proper voting system and a punish tool, FF should have been mandatory from scratch in those beta builds. People are now so used to this boring spam fest that they can’t even think about seeing friendly fire on public plays.

I played earlier alpha/beta builds with FF turned on on some public servers, and now it’s like a layer of game depth got erased since. The great thing with FF turned ON is that players start to think and behave themselves.

Like min level 10 servers, we absolutely need some FF ON public servers. The last official words I heard about this were not taking this direction sadly…

(MarsRover) #25

If they ever do that in all (or most) pubs, I’ll be outta here. There is no way this would work in DB pubs - low health mercs, massive amount of explosives and no coordination. Without FF some people are just dead weight. With FF they are actively sabotaging the team, either by killing or getting killed by running into FF.

No amount of anti-griefing systems will help pubs in a F2P game.

You see, in this world there is two kind of people, my friend: those who generalize and those who do not.

(Ghosthree3) #26

Turning FF on would actually change the balance of pub play since you’d have to pick to play around your team. That’s not even considering the griefing issue.

(Szakalot) #27

If they ever do that in all (or most) pubs, I’ll be outta here. There is no way this would work in DB pubs - low health mercs, massive amount of explosives and no coordination. Without FF some people are just dead weight. With FF they are actively sabotaging the team, either by killing or getting killed by running into FF.

No amount of anti-griefing systems will help pubs in a F2P game.

You see, in this world there is two kind of people, my friend: those who generalize and those who do not.

[/quote]

there is absolutely a way FF would work on this game.

ETQW had 3 times as much spam, and somehow the game didn’t turn into a ff-fest with FF-on.

People just need to get used to the proper style of playing, been spamming for so long, they forgot what its like to play the tactical side of things.

(AirborneAsian) #28

Yeah, getting an ace badge and being on top of the leaderboard, and someone killed you intentionally and says ‘oops… sorry.’ Someone can also run on front of you intentionally while you’re rhino or in a middle of a battle many times so you can get banned. Bah, it should be a thing in competitive, but not in public matches. Forget what I just said. There is a reason why SD cut off tk. Maps are small, blah blah blah. And plus, when you’re in a middle of a fight, a friendl- I mean not-so-friendly team-mate can shoot you down a bit so the enemy can kill you more easily. This makes you assume that the enemy killed you, and none of your team-mates helped them. And i’m pretty sure that every day when you’re playing DB at least one person is a troll. This can ruin the entire player base.

Also matches are quick & short, so there’s no reason ff or tk should be put here.

(B_Montiel) #29

If they ever do that in all (or most) pubs, I’ll be outta here. There is no way this would work in DB pubs - low health mercs, massive amount of explosives and no coordination. Without FF some people are just dead weight. With FF they are actively sabotaging the team, either by killing or getting killed by running into FF.

No amount of anti-griefing systems will help pubs in a F2P game.

You see, in this world there is two kind of people, my friend: those who generalize and those who do not.

[/quote]

Generalizing does not mean that’s entirely false. Spamming or wasting an airstrike or explosives when there’s team mates around your target even with FF OFF is a dumb move anyway. The generated disturbance of explosive sprites turns your mates blind and they got killed stupidly. 90% of the current players are actually doing this all the time.

Of course, most of us expecting FF ON servers don’t want to force everyone to play with those rules. Anybody is expecting 8vs8 FF ON servers. That would be terrible.

A good anti-griefing system will definitely help. There are simple solutions like punishments systems, proper votekick and COMMUNITY SERVERS. Strangely, I’ve already seen those in a former f2p from splash damage (For those who never played a game with spammy explosives and FF ON, you should give it a try…).

Just to mention an other game where FF ON is an important factor, Chivalry, more recently. And people behaved correctly on pubs in presence of a troll or somebody not paying attention. Again, with a proper votekick, those usually don’t stay on the server for long…

(Szakalot) #30

[quote=“AirborneAsian;66810”]Yeah, getting an ace badge and being on top of the leaderboard, and someone killed you intentionally and says ‘oops… sorry.’ Someone can also run on front of you intentionally while you’re rhino or in a middle of a battle many times so you can get banned. Bah, it should be a thing in competitive, but not in public matches. Forget what I just said. There is a reason why SD cut off tk. Maps are small, blah blah blah. And plus, when you’re in a middle of a fight, a friendl- I mean not-so-friendly team-mate can shoot you down a bit so the enemy can kill you more easily. This makes you assume that the enemy killed you, and none of your team-mates helped them. And i’m pretty sure that every day when you’re playing DB at least one person is a troll. This can ruin the entire player base.

Also matches are quick & short, so there’s no reason ff or tk should be put here.[/quote]

lol, trolling is possible without FF as well. YOu can pick up delivery objective and never actually deliver, you can stand in front of teammates and block their shots (sniper trolling anyone?)

SD never ‘cut off tk’, it just that it never really got implemented: the option is there, its a simple server setting, but they haven’t implemented it to the public due to shitty votekick n anti-griefing system.

People can grief and troll regardless of the system you come up. Adjusting the gameplay in fear of griefing is a very silly idea

(MarsRover) #31

In ~200h I’ve never seen anyone griefing by taking objective. Amount of potential FF kills - dozens every game. Shot blocking without FF is just that - blocking the shots. With FF it will result in autokicking innocent people.

Expecting people to learn is unfortunately not going to work. Just like now medics don’t res, engis don’t do objectives, and some people just play TDM.

Griefing is not clean cut black and white. But without FF we’re much damn closer to white than with FF.

Also please remember that this is a F2P game. Create a new account and you’re back griefing in 3 minutes. Just like there’ll always be more cheaters, no matter what anti-cheat there is.

(Ghosthree3) #32

[quote=“MarsRover;66826”]In ~200h I’ve never seen anyone griefing by taking objective. Amount of potential FF kills - dozens every game. Shot blocking without FF is just that - blocking the shots. With FF it will result in autokicking innocent people.

Expecting people to learn is unfortunately not going to work. Just like now medics don’t res, engis don’t do objectives, and some people just play TDM.

Griefing is not clean cut black and white. But without FF we’re much damn closer to white than with FF.[/quote]
I have to agree with all of this.

(Szakalot) #33

[quote=“MarsRover;66826”]In ~200h I’ve never seen anyone griefing by taking objective. Amount of potential FF kills - dozens every game. Shot blocking without FF is just that - blocking the shots. With FF it will result in autokicking innocent people.

Expecting people to learn is unfortunately not going to work. Just like now medics don’t res, engis don’t do objectives, and some people just play TDM.

Griefing is not clean cut black and white. But without FF we’re much damn closer to white than with FF.

Also please remember that this is a F2P game. Create a new account and you’re back griefing in 3 minutes. Just like there’ll always be more cheaters, no matter what anti-cheat there is.[/quote]

the fact you haven’t seen any griefing with delivery objective is a testament to how little griefing there will be with FF on.

Yes people will get killed randomly. Be it airstrike, a nade, or wading into another person’s line of fire. People will learn.

They did in QW, where the amount of spam was double/triple the amount in DB. Going through the obituary, even on indoor parts of maps, hitscan weapons wouldn’t be more than 50-60% of all kills; everything else - explosions.

(shatteredwings) #34

[quote=“sqpantz;66603”]I would love to see explosives friendly fire at the very least as a server option.
It would definitely be interesting to see how different the game would play if Nader, Fragger, Skyhammer, Fletcher, Proxy, Kira & Arty’s abilities could kill teammates as well.
[/quote]
Hold onto your butts. Time to get danger close.

(AirborneAsian) #35

[quote=“Szakalot;66822”][quote=“AirborneAsian;66810”]Yeah, getting an ace badge and being on top of the leaderboard, and someone killed you intentionally and says ‘oops… sorry.’ Someone can also run on front of you intentionally while you’re rhino or in a middle of a battle many times so you can get banned. Bah, it should be a thing in competitive, but not in public matches. Forget what I just said. There is a reason why SD cut off tk. Maps are small, blah blah blah. And plus, when you’re in a middle of a fight, a friendl- I mean not-so-friendly team-mate can shoot you down a bit so the enemy can kill you more easily. This makes you assume that the enemy killed you, and none of your team-mates helped them. And i’m pretty sure that every day when you’re playing DB at least one person is a troll. This can ruin the entire player base.

Also matches are quick & short, so there’s no reason ff or tk should be put here.[/quote]

lol, trolling is possible without FF as well. YOu can pick up delivery objective and never actually deliver, you can stand in front of teammates and block their shots (sniper trolling anyone?)

SD never ‘cut off tk’, it just that it never really got implemented: the option is there, its a simple server setting, but they haven’t implemented it to the public due to shitty votekick n anti-griefing system.

People can grief and troll regardless of the system you come up. Adjusting the gameplay in fear of griefing is a very silly idea[/quote]

  1. Trolling with objective. I know that already. Not that dumb. But in my 167 hours pf gameplay I’ve never seen ANYONE THAT DONE IT.
  2. SD never ‘cut it off.’ Well, I only said that because someone in the previous comments said it was in DB a long time ago.
  3. ‘Adjusting the gameplay in fear of griefing is a very silly idea.’ What do you mean by that? I didn’t say anything by adjusting the gameplay.
(Jan S.) #36

With FF on, I would die 15 times today. I played only 3 objective matches.
Again, I’m not saying its bad, but it shouldn’t be on all servers. Some people just want to have fun and not to worry if they’ll accidentaly hurt teammate.

(MarsRover) #37

[quote=“Szakalot;66840”]the fact you haven’t seen any griefing with delivery objective is a testament to how little griefing there will be with FF on.

Yes people will get killed randomly. Be it airstrike, a nade, or wading into another person’s line of fire. People will learn.

They did in QW, where the amount of spam was double/triple the amount in DB. Going through the obituary, even on indoor parts of maps, hitscan weapons wouldn’t be more than 50-60% of all kills; everything else - explosions.[/quote]
Griefing is not my main concern. There will be significantly more because there will be more opportunities with more drastic results. But I doubt it would surpass the scale of the current cheater problem.

My main reason is that people will not learn. It’s demonstrable in every match. We have to agree to disagree on this one :smile:

PS. PL? :wink:

(shatteredwings) #38

[quote=“MarsRover;66846”][quote=“Szakalot;66840”]the fact you haven’t seen any griefing with delivery objective is a testament to how little griefing there will be with FF on.

Yes people will get killed randomly. Be it airstrike, a nade, or wading into another person’s line of fire. People will learn.

They did in QW, where the amount of spam was double/triple the amount in DB. Going through the obituary, even on indoor parts of maps, hitscan weapons wouldn’t be more than 50-60% of all kills; everything else - explosions.[/quote]
Griefing is not my main concern. There will be significantly more because there will be more opportunities with more drastic results. But I doubt it would surpass the scale of the current cheater problem.

My main reason is that people will not learn. It’s demonstrable in every match. We have to agree to disagree on this one :smile:

PS. PL? :wink: [/quote]

Another thing that everyone is failing to mention is the player base change that happens with FF games. Eventually, people are going to only start playing with friends/clans, out of fear of people griefing them in pubs. It’ll be like L4D2, I will only play it with my team of friends. So a regular pubby decides to play this game and not only gets TK’d by his team, but also rekt by a clan that probably plays seriously.

I want to keep the game as is, when it comes to FF. Mindless fun, but with a nice team dynamic that anyone can enjoy. FF in competitive, I can accept that.

(B_Montiel) #39

I’m really surprised how against FF ON people are. The game is like half cut since they turn it off for everyone and most of us seem to agree with that. ALL SD games have been explosive spam + FF ON in the past and now everyone seem to forget it.

Griefing has always been a minor issue in all FF ON fpses as long as you have proper voting systems. Someone tking too much or doing it on purpose ? Kick him (time ban for 5 minutes) and you’re done. I’m sorry but, in general terms in fps, FF ON servers are generally well more behaved and respectful than FF OFF.

In DB, my biggest problem with FF ON only in cups is that you can’t have the same experience in terms of weapons behaviour (including main weapons which are still quite a big TK threat) between normal pub games and competitive games. I don’t want to be forced to do pugs to experience FF ON situations. We can’t even have FF ON on matchmaking, which is totally preposterous. MM is allegedly allowing anyone to have competitive atmosphere in less random pub games. What makes the success of cs:go/lol/dota2 is that their MMs have the exact same rules than big competitive tourneys.

The current DB situation with no FF ON pub servers is like saying that offsides are not counted in a soccer game because you’re playing in an amateur league.

Map awareness, caring about where your teammates are and behaving in consequence are totally skill related and those parts are currently blindfolded of pub games, which is to me a strong issue. And this will possibly alter my taste of the game at some point. Mistakes are parts of team games.

The two FF ON and FF OFF sides generally cohabit nicely in any game. If you don’t want to play on FF ON pubs, don’t go there. I’m not asking for a overall change. But when I see how many empty servers there are in Europe, I think it would not hurt to put 5 or 10 of those with FF ON.

(Gi.Am) #40

While I’m certainly on the hardline when it comes to the benefits of ff-on and do hold the opinion that this should be the default.

It doesn’t need to be.

And I seriously don’t see why we don’t have 1-5 servers per region by now. ff-on is a simple server ini flag (ON/OFF). Take them out of the quickjoin list, state that they are ff-on in the server name, add a level 10 gate, if you must.
And done.

Everybody is happy. The game has a votekick and if that isn’t enough to control trolling, we still can play on the ff-off servers. Not much harm in 1-5 empty servers is there?