I liked BRINK a lot, and i loved all the features too. When i heared of dirty bomb… first think i thought was “plz have the SMART Movment system in it”. But now its not 
Why is that, and what are the arguments against SMART?
MFG, TheDuplex | Germany
This is just some animations. Run to a window, click on the button to trigger the contextual action and look the animation.
For me, this is not really fun. I prefer to run, make the jump throught the windows by myself, managing the physics of characters and the air control = This is fully interaction, unlike the animation.
However, I would love to have slide and walljump movements.
In an arcade FPS, an advanced movement system is a must have to me. The last arcade FPS on which I have fun are Tribes and shootmania, justly because they have some good freedom of movements.
If you like the movements of Brink, you should look at Warframe : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FKGO5ShGLM
Yeah I really liked this feature of brink. I think its hilarious how the next COD game is promoting it as some awesome innovative new feature… heh
I think the only downside to it was the “stickiness” of it… if you triggered the movement you’d get stuck in it. Just a few MS i guess, but could make a difference. Competitive players would know how to avoid those situations tho
I always felt that the smart movement was geared towards using a gamepad, to make movement a little easier for those on consoles. This being pc only and using a new/different engine I guess they decided it wasn’t worth implementing.
Things like sliding might still make an appearance though.
As an aside it’s hilarious in COD when people instaprone and shoot you… lol
DB doesn’t need an automated movement system.
I had no idea that COD was doing something like it but it will probably be buttery smooth and well implemented. They won’t screw up the franchise. However Brink wasn’t the first to put a “free run” movement system in a game by the way.
After watching a video about CoD’s movement system I find it to not be related to Brink’s really at all…
S.M.A.R.T was a really cool feature and I liked it a lot and I thought I’d miss it in DB, but I actually don’t. And that’s because the level designers let you basically go everywhere where you possibly want to go. There aren’t a great many spots where I’d like to go, but can’t.
Every now and again I play a couple matches of good ol’ Brink and S.M.A.R.T, or rather the not so perfect implemention of it in the game, feels worse and worse, the longer I play DB. The times when I inadvertently climb on something are really annoying, especially because I’m not that used to it anymore.
And bear in mind, that even with S.M.A.R.T you couldn’t go everywhere.
Brink had S.M.A.R.T, Dirty Bomb has smart placed vans 
[QUOTE=.FROST.;461904]And bear in mind, that even with S.M.A.R.T you couldn’t go everywhere.
Brink had S.M.A.R.T, Dirty Bomb has smart placed vans [/QUOTE]
The level design of Brink kinda enforced the SMART movement, so it was not really free. It was sad that I always had the feeling “the dev wanted you to use SMART exactly here”. In ET or QW you could jump to places where the devs haven’t thought of before.
That’s^ what I meant; instead of SMART you could’ve a variety of objects to get where you wanna be. Taking those things away, or rather said, not having them there in the first place enforces the use of SMART upon you. But, to be fair, there were some things you could do with SMART wich would be impossible to do otherwise, except if the levels would entirely consist of ledges and planks.
But under the bottom-line I prefer DB’s movement system, combined with it’s level design.
As a long time Urban Terror player, which has wall-jumping and ledge climbing in addition to full Quake3 strafe-jumping, I was looking forward to the SMART system in Brink, in particular I like the idea of being able to bounce off a wall to gain height and get to places you couldn’t ordinarily jump to.
The problem with SMART however wasn’t the concept, it was the implementation, the fact you couldn’t NOT use the sprint key to activate it. If there had been a separate SMART key it would’ve been fine, but that one little omission was the deal-breaker for me.
In DB I’d love to see stuff like wall-jumping, climbing, to enable us to get to places you could probably envisage being able to get to “in real life” (or at least if you were rather younger and fitter than I am). I appreciate SD’s concern that full on strafe-jumping isn’t particularly intuitive (in “real life” you don’t travel further while jumping by twisting in mid-air), but jumping at a wall to bounce off onto a another, higher, wall, or grabbing the edge of a wall to haul yourself over is completely intuitive and, other than the cost / time of implementing such a feature I think it would be a very worthy addition to the game.
[QUOTE=Kendle;462095]As a long time Urban Terror player, which has wall-jumping and ledge climbing in addition to full Quake3 strafe-jumping, I was looking forward to the SMART system in Brink, in particular I like the idea of being able to bounce off a wall to gain height and get to places you couldn’t ordinarily jump to.
The problem with SMART however wasn’t the concept, it was the implementation, the fact you couldn’t NOT use the sprint key to activate it. If there had been a separate SMART key it would’ve been fine, but that one little omission was the deal-breaker for me.
In DB I’d love to see stuff like wall-jumping, climbing, to enable us to get to places you could probably envisage being able to get to “in real life” (or at least if you were rather younger and fitter than I am). I appreciate SD’s concern that full on strafe-jumping isn’t particularly intuitive (in “real life” you don’t travel further while jumping by twisting in mid-air), but jumping at a wall to bounce off onto a another, higher, wall, or grabbing the edge of a wall to haul yourself over is completely intuitive and, other than the cost / time of implementing such a feature I think it would be a very worthy addition to the game.[/QUOTE]
And it would probably not be very hard to implement it too. However, SD would need to consider map design again, all those obstacles players can’t get over they can go over now etc. That’s the tricky part.
Possibly, but the point is “in real life” you probably could haul yourself over a 2 metre high wall, for example, so you don’t have to think in terms of “if I was a skilled trick-jumper could I get there?”, you only have to think “in real life could I get there?”. That makes the design decisions much easier, and currently I can’t think of too many instances where DB maps would break if we could do more of this kind of thing.
The “in real life” argument is pointless. What one person can do irl is different than another person (height, weight, strength, training,…). I play games so I can be a super soldier with pin point accuracy, extreme strength & speed.
I hate any system that locks me into an animation (most commonly ledge clinging, hauling yourself up a ledge). I’d prefer to see a system that only utilizes your legs so you are free at any moment to break out of the animtion and shoot somebody. (Basic walljumping, strafejumping, sliding)
I just want something fun, enjoyable to use and gives me reason and motivation to get better at it and a wide scope to do so. Screw the real life argument (within reason of course), I just want to enjoy myself!
I’m only using the phrase “in real life” to represent things that are intuitive (i.e. make sense). For example, in Quake you could leap enormous distances and propel yourself to great heights by firing a rocket at the ground, things even the most super fit human couldn’t do. That’s SD’s argument against strafe-jumping, it’s not intuitive, it doesn’t make sense, it’s not something you could ever reasonably expect to do “in real life”.
The kind of parkour movement used in Brink, whilst still requiring someone of exceptional strength and agility, is at least something you can imagine yourself doing (if you had that strength and agility). And that’s the key difference, in order to leap over a 2 metre wall you only need to imagine what you could do if you were a super-fit super-soldier. Jumping a 25 metre gap between buildings by approaching the jump in a circular motion and twisting in mid-air doesn’t make sense, you couldn’t do it no matter how fit and strong you were.
If SD are going to take the view that idtech3 style strafe-jumping is not going to happen because it’s not intuitive, then rather than rail against that and throw our toys out of the pram, let’s petition them to add stuff that whilst not reaching those heights does at least make sense and gets us some way towards a more evolved movement system than the one we have currently.
I’d love to see them implement something similar, but I just can’t imagine what that would be. Pressing F to scale a wall as it was in Brink pales in comparison.
As DAUK said something to get better at.
Brinks SMART felt so automated to a point where they would have been as well leaving out the map debris that required it in the first place. Bar the ledge climbs, it wasn’t really a movement system at all, it was an animation system that kicked in with barely any input from the user other than ‘run forward’. I tried my best with it, and possibly if offline play wasn’t capped at 30fps I would’ve discovered more, but really there wasn’t much to at all once you got underneath the shiny surface and saw there wasn’t much depth below it.
Again, I want something fun, dynamic, engaging and emergent rather than a complete lackluster set of climbs that everyone can pull off with barely the press of a button. There’s no sense of achievement, no drive to learn and get better at something that you’re already as good as you can be at it. The only system I can think of off the top of my head is what I’ve used before such as RtCW and ET, and since that’s not happening, I don’t know what else to suggest because nothing else fits the bill.
To be honest I just get the impression that SD aren’t interested in such a thing what so ever, lets just keep it simple and don’t upset new people because they have to learn something to not feel cheated apparently. I wish they would stop thinking or guessing that new players will be put off by a bit of depth and actually ask them, this whole getting offended on someone elses behalf thing just annoys me. Alpha is the perfect phase to add this stuff, get input from new players then take it from there… don’t just write it off on an assumption.
DB needs to be something different in a sea of f2p shooters and it just isn’t, instead of building upon the the areas that made the previous games unique, we’re going the other way and removing them! Making things even more bland and just blending in with the crowd. Adding a pretend movement system is a waste of time and would make users feel just as cheated as if they felt they were getting something good and it turns out to be purely visual and a pretend pat on the back. That’s what SMART felt to me, a pretend system to make you feel special, and when everyone’s special then no one is.
That’s SD’s argument against strafe-jumping, it’s not intuitive, it doesn’t make sense, it’s not something you could ever reasonably expect to do “in real life”.
I really don’t care of that in an arcade game. For me, an arcade game need to define its own rules, and not try to copy the real-life rules (which can only result in a poor gameplay, for an arcade FPS. The kind of gameplay which are not really realistic, but not really arcade = The ass between two chairs.).
Quake has straffjump, not intuitive, but really fun and deep.
Tribes has skiing and rock bounce, not intuitive, but really fun and deep.
Even shootmania, which is less deep than old fast FPS, offers non intuitive movements for the benefits of the gameplay.
Freedom of movements !
Again, I want something fun, dynamic, engaging and emergent rather than a complete lackluster set of climbs that everyone can pull off with barely the press of a button. There’s no sense of achievement, no drive to learn and get better at something that you’re already as good as you can be at it.
Yep. Totally agree with this.
I wish they would stop thinking or guessing that new players will be put off by a bit of depth and actually ask them, this whole getting offended on someone elses behalf thing just annoys me.
I think this will kill Dirty Bomb. The fan of fast fps will not play to DB because its lack of deepness in movements.
But the players which don’t want of fast fps will not play to DB because it don’t offers what BF4/COD/ Others offer (weapons with big recoil, weapon really fatal, etc.)
Even if some kind of strafe jumping is introduced, I doubt that it will do nothing more then speeding up the game; maps doesnt seem to benefit
What about having 2 cycle/state sprint system, after some time you get some speed dash comparable to Mirrors Edge?
So in the first sprint cycle you can reload your gun, in the second “run” cycle you cant but your jump abilities are enhanced because you gained momentum, then you might do some short wallruns and little walljumps. Still better than nothing^^
Some key to sneak is missing imo, atm it isnt possible to move without doing footstep noise.
