Why is Fragger so expensive?

(artfulSedan) #21

Which doesn’t make it any less bullshit. Having “tier 2” and “tier 1” mercs acknowledges the fact that some mercs are better than others, it encourages an extremely bad mentality of “I keep losing to this guy because he has a 50.000C character”, which is only one step apart from “I keep losing to people who pay more money than me, this game is freaking pay to win”.
Having mercs cost more than others is wrong because it seems to acknowledge there is a structural imbalance between mercs: “if you pay more money, you’ll gain access to more powerful mercs” which actually isn’t true right now (aside from a handful of balance issues), and which shouldn’t be true.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly!

(solt.) #22

This simply isn’t true. Justifications for the price point on any given Merc is almost absolutely ~not reflective of that Merc’s “power”.

Power itself being a predominantly subjective statistic excluding instances of genuine imbalance.

INSTEAD!
When setting these price points the company is most likely to consider this:

Do the players WANT this Merc?

Now, I imagine you’re thinking “well yeah, we want them because they’re OP”.
That could be true, but it’s an overtly selfish business strategy that will see the playerbase respond very negatively.

(Side note: If you feel this IS what is happening with Fragger then that’s fair, I simply strongly disagree)

Instead I propose you want them for any number of reasons. Perhaps they are “cool”, perhaps they have interesting mechanics, perhaps they have a high skill cap, maybe they’re just a new Merc after a long period without any.

Any number of reasons could lead to an escalated pricing, but I will fight to the bitter end to say that any executive worth their position would not allow for “power” to dictate the price in a F2P game.

Now, if you want to argue whether or not desirability is enough to justify the varied prices on certain Mercs, by all means go ahead.

My thoughts on that are that so long as there are enough “entry-level” Mercs to obtain as a new player (see: the lowest cost-tier of champions in League of Legends), the company can set the price of other Mercs to whatever they please.
This attitude of entitlement players approach F2P games with is pretty exhausting frankly.

/rant

TL;DR: There is no way Tyrion isn’t going to become a deity in the next book.

(flameChicken) #23

This simply isn’t true. Justifications for the price point on any given Merc is almost absolutely ~not reflective of that Merc’s “power”.

Power itself being a predominantly subjective statistic excluding instances of genuine imbalance.

INSTEAD!
When setting these price points the company is most likely to consider this:

Do the players WANT this Merc?

Now, I imagine you’re thinking “well yeah, we want them because they’re OP”.
That could be true, but it’s an overtly selfish business strategy that will see the playerbase respond very negatively.

(Side note: If you feel this IS what is happening with Fragger then that’s fair, I simply strongly disagree)

Instead I propose you want them for any number of reasons. Perhaps they are “cool”, perhaps they have interesting mechanics, perhaps they have a high skill cap, maybe they’re just a new Merc after a long period without any.

Any number of reasons could lead to an escalated pricing, but I will fight to the bitter end to say that any executive worth their position would not allow for “power” to dictate the price in a F2P game.

Now, if you want to argue whether or not desirability is enough to justify the varied prices on certain Mercs, by all means go ahead.

My thoughts on that are that so long as there are enough “entry-level” Mercs to obtain as a new player (see: the lowest cost-tier of champions in League of Legends), the company can set the price of other Mercs to whatever they please.
This attitude of entitlement players approach F2P games with is pretty exhausting frankly.

/rant

TL;DR: There is no way Tyrion isn’t going to become a deity in the next book.
[/quote]

The main problem with this backed with the fact that Fragger is harder to kill practically encourages the mentality that it is P2W, whether or not that is true is irrelevant, it’s the mentality of the players, especially the new players.

(Darkcola) #24

[quote=“artfulSedan;1894”]Apart from the obvious unbalanced income - price relations…

Why is fragger so expensive? he is like 80% more expensive than the rest. Why?
[/quote]

he is a beast.
esp. with lmg with laughable recoil esp in ads, it lasers across maps, high health (and if u simply do not run out in the open like a mad fool, ull be fine), and grenades that DO NOT NEED AMMO DROPS TO REPLENISH. This is hilarious to me, because it destroys chokepoints/corner campers etc to have these HE thingies on hand at anytime without the need of a lieutenant/commander or what have you. And mainly because you can cook them.

(solt.) #25

You’re not wrong, it is the practice of any player (experienced or otherwise) to externalize fault when they struggle to succeed.

Therefore if your butt is getting kicked and you begin to externalize that fault as being caused by Fragger (or Aura, or Proxy, or Skyhammer, see any QQ thread ever) you begin to dictate to memory any/all information that you feel conforms to that narrative.

This is called confirmation bias.

Now, given that we know that about humans, what do you propose?

(Eox) #26

If that merc is harder to get because he’s supposed to be stronger (read “imbalanced”, performs better), this is not acceptable. Every mercs have to be as balanced as possible. A merc shouldn’t be more expensive merc because he’s better than the others or something, neither should he be better than the others.

Take note : I am not saying that Fragger is imbalanced (at least not yet), but if Splash Damage gave him a more expensive cost with that purpose, this definitely should be changed, both the price and the merc or his weapons.

(solt.) #27

It’s very disheartening to read this literally minutes after I addressed this point. :frowning:

(artfulSedan) #28

It’s still not good for the image of a game that claims to be competetive and balanced.

When you have mercs that cost more than other it will create the metality that these are supirior to others. People will start johning whne getting killed by these saying: Yeah killed me with your premium merc you probably cashed.
This will create a Placebo effect of imbalance: The bought the better mercs and if they are good with them they are because the mercs are superior.
Peopel will claim that those mercs are unbalanced no matter if they are or not ( which you probably not goign to test if they are not in the weekly circle.

And fragger is not a new merc he is not newer than the others, so i still see no reason why he would be more expesnive.

Also: yeah that MG has the recoil of is ridiculosly low.

(Eox) #29

It’s very disheartening to read this literally minutes after I addressed this point. :frowning: [/quote]

I admit I only read OP and not the rest of the thread.

Sorry. :confused:

(flameChicken) #30

(Ingore this, I was being an idiot)

(Buttback) #31

I agree with the guy that said it’s hard to keep up the ‘competitive balanced’ atmosphere when mercs hugely vary in price.

That being said, it’s still beta. We have no knowledge of which mercs are ‘best’ right now (except for the bloody mobile shotgun-wielding ones, of course) so they can pretty much do anything they want with the prices.

The comparison will probably never end - and this has been mentioned in this thread already - but let’s not forget that League is highly competitive yet has huge variations in their prices. It doesn’t mean a damn thing, everyone knows Annie (450IP) is generally considered to be a better/more versatile/more useful/you name it champ than Quinn who costs 6300 IP.

Unless there are obvious hints that Nexon is stepping in and there is going to be an advantage to mercs with higher pricetags, I don’t think there’s any reason to speculate.

(Amerika) #32

[quote=“Darkcola;10487”][quote=“artfulSedan;1894”]Apart from the obvious unbalanced income - price relations…

Why is fragger so expensive? he is like 80% more expensive than the rest. Why?
[/quote]

he is a beast.
esp. with lmg with laughable recoil esp in ads, it lasers across maps, high health (and if u simply do not run out in the open like a mad fool, ull be fine), and grenades that DO NOT NEED AMMO DROPS TO REPLENISH. This is hilarious to me, because it destroys chokepoints/corner campers etc to have these HE thingies on hand at anytime without the need of a lieutenant/commander or what have you. And mainly because you can cook them.[/quote]

I like the self-replenishing system much better. The CD on them is long enough that you can’t spam them and you sometimes don’t have them when you want them. In other games when you have a Field Ops giving you grenades non-stop you can simply chuck them all game. So I much prefer the DB way of doing it.

(Litego) #33

[quote=“Meat;10316”][quote=“artfulSedan;1894”]Apart from the obvious unbalanced income - price relations…

Why is fragger so expensive? he is like 80% more expensive than the rest. Why?
[/quote]

First of all check your math he is only 40% more expensive than the other mercs.[/quote]
Actually you’re both wrong, cause he is 67% more expensive than other mercs. Another way to look at it is that the other mercs are 40% cheaper than him. Both are correct.

[quote=“artfulSedan;10498”]It’s still not good for the image of a game that claims to be competetive and balanced.

When you have mercs that cost more than other it will create the metality that these are supirior to others. People will start johning whne getting killed by these saying: Yeah killed me with your premium merc you probably cashed.
This will create a Placebo effect of imbalance: The bought the better mercs and if they are good with them they are because the mercs are superior.
Peopel will claim that those mercs are unbalanced no matter if they are or not ( which you probably not goign to test if they are not in the weekly circle.

And fragger is not a new merc he is not newer than the others, so i still see no reason why he would be more expesnive. [/quote]
This!

If it’s a new merc they are introducing, it’s understandable that it will be more expensive at first, but that is not the case here.

(Diosito) #34

I did not pay for Fragger, I only paid for Vasili (Arty is still there, waiting to be purchased :stuck_out_tongue: )

Abbadon
Abbadon

(Nail) #35

sillies, grenades are $4

(balu) #36

Fragger is only “good” with the current mercs. Just wait for the other mercs to come back and you won’t see him as much any more. Explosives own him hard

(strawberryJacket) #37

Played the game when there were more mercs and fragger was still an issue, so yeah. Setting highest price on a merc that is currently the strongest does give a pay2win vibe, sadly.

(Amerika) #38

Yeah, and that’s the oddity of choosing to give him the highest cost. He’s not overpowered given his role. A team full of Aura’s and Proxy’s will destroy a team with excess Fragger’s in regards to objectives. But putting a high price on the class that has the highest consistent kill potential does put off a pay2win vibe which nobody wants…especially when it’s not accurate (but accuracy doesn’t matter when somebody starts thinking it’s pay2win).

(flameChicken) #39

And the placebo effect on that kind of mentality is very dangerous and can ruin a game’s community.

(humaneBerry) #40

I honestly do not see what makes Fragger op. Maby I haven’t played enough great fragger players but apart from being more tanky i really dont se a difference.

He has more health than other mercs but also the worst mobility (Seriously even with a knife he can barely sprint) His health isnt that much of a problem if u land consistent headshots.

He has 2 grenades that refresh pretty fast but unless he cooks them you can avoid em just fine and when he cooks them he wont do anything else for 2-3 seconds.

Can someone please clarify what you guys consider the problem with fragger to be?