Why I purchased Brink


(Dragnerok X) #1

While I’ll admit gratuitous violence and swearing has always been a staple of the genre, I am one of the few out there who enjoys T-rated shooters, for the simple fact that they strip away all of the excessively obscene content while leaving the core gameplay in-tact, and unfortunately they are getting harder and harder to come by.

Whenever I bring this kind of thing up I get the argument “why does swearing / crude humor / immodest female characters bother you and not violence?” my rebuttal being that you run into the former all of the time (and part of the reason I don’t want it is I’m tired of seeing / hearing it), even from kids these days, and by purchasing such games you are in a sense approving of the developer’s choice to include such content and in a way are indirectly funding a company that will only further normalize such behavior. In the case of violence, most well-adjusted people can distinguish fantasy from reality, although I will admit that virtual violence desensitizes people somewhat (perhaps I need to boycott the entire genre xD).

In any case, thank you SD for not adding explicit content to your game and know that I bought your game, even over some AAA titles, for this very reason.


(Hot-Wire) #2

Double standard, if I was a girl I’d be drooling over some of these guy’s physics. (But then again, easter island heads)

And look at all those shirtless resistance fighters!!! All that is left is some body oil and a beach ball.


(ScumBag) #3

I disagree entirely with your worldview (sex bad-violence good), but I wholeheartedly approve of your back handed compliment implying that Brink is not a AAA title. Well done.


(Donnovan) #4

Why the theme war is so preset in games?

This is a looong deep history…

If you forgot that game are not necessarily war so you must stop gaming right now!


(Dragnerok X) #5

Not to get too ranty, but a long time ago one could purchase a game without worrying about f-bombs being thrown out every other sentence or completely unrealistic, overly testosteronized depictions of war being presented. I guess it’s just come with the culture these days.

Well, if there ever comes a point where I’ll have to abandon mainstream games altogether, I’ve got plenty of quality older games I still haven’t beaten, not to mention the renaissance indie games are seeing and good ol’ windows solitaire.


(nephandys) #6

[QUOTE=Dragnerok X;375225]Not to get too ranty, but a long time ago one could purchase a game without worrying about f-bombs being thrown out every other sentence or completely unrealistic, overly testosteronized depictions of war being presented. I guess it’s just come with the culture these days.

Well, if there ever comes a point where I’ll have to abandon mainstream games altogether, I’ve got plenty of quality older games I still haven’t beaten, not to mention the renaissance indie games are seeing and good ol’ windows solitaire.[/QUOTE]
When games didn’t include any of the stuff you’re talking about, that’s when they were out of touch with reality. The fact is people swear. While they might not be doing every 5 sec like in some games. It happens. Especially if you were in a war zone with bullets flying every where I think a few might slip past your lips.

The whole discussion of “completely unrealisitc overly testosteronized depictions of war” in my mind raises a whole discussion of what a game should be like. This is really hard to address with you as the label you’ve thrown out is not very descriptive (to me). I don’t want a real life war simulator. I want to play a game and have some fun with my friends.

Piggy backing on some of your earlier comments I think it’s just as easy to differentiate all the other stuff your talking about as fantasy from reality as it is to differentiate violence. All it takes is for you to not be mentally ill or retarded.


(Jimmy James) #7

If I understand this thread correctly, and please correct me if I’m wrong, it’s basically a discussion about how the amount of violence and obscenities (verbal or graphical) have been increasing with modern video games.

Well, Throbblefoot and I personally cuss like sailors. (Throbblefoot had to tell me not to cuss so much in front of my own mother because it was clearly bothering her.) I’m drunk, I’m crude, I’ll tell you to **** off if you look at me sideways when we pass on the street, and the psychedelic drugs make grocery shopping really difficult.

So, if I wanted to play a game that I could relate to I may go for something like Redneck Rampage. I would say that was the more extreme end of the spectrum. (Especially with the downloadable “cuss patch”.)

But I think some games really do a good balance of only using cuss words and graphic violence when it emphasizes the significance of the situation, Vampire: Bloodlines is a perfect example of this I think.

Then you got America’s Army… no blood, no cussing, no actual realism in a game that is supposed to let you experience what it’s like to be in the army.

I played them all, I enjoyed them all. Didn’t really like the direction the GTA 3 storyline took however. Ugh, seriously I almost puked a couple times during some of the cut-scenes.

-JJ


(L00fah) #8

I don’t understand why this guy is getting so much heat for an earnest thank you to the developers.

I swear like a mother****er, don’t get me wrong, but I am a little thankful that this game wasn’t littered with curse words and hyper-sexualized characters. And yes, there is a difference between a bunch of really fit guys (they HAVE to be to pull offthe crap they do) and being hyper-sexualized. (Though, admittedly, my main is DAMNED sexy - if I were a chick, I would totally want his nuts… But then again, he looks like me and I’m a narcissist…)
Violence and gaming are two things that have always been… It’s only natural at this point that we accept that and are comfortable with it (there are varying degrees of violence from cartoonish to the purely gory), but I am sick of games tossing around curse words like some 9 year old who just learned them… It’s like they’re trying TOO HARD to be the “cool kid.” It’s sad, more often than not - especially in a game where the dialogue was otherwise well-written and voiced.

While I think his implications at the end of the OP (Bought Brink over a “AAA title”) were a bit rude and likely not intended, I agree with the rest of his statement.

His or her… I didn’t feel like typing that through out.


(BROTOX) #9

As long as it is a good game, I don’t care about the cussing or violence. Brink happens to be a good game but I would not deny myself from playing a good game if there happens to be a lot of swearing in it.


(wolfnemesis75) #10

I am fine with all forms of swearing in games. The combat is visceral, nasty, and gritty so in reality you’d be cussing like a sailor all the time. Its like playing b-ball: because of the physical play and bumping and CQC style, you’re gonna say some nasty stuff. Brink is fine as a Teen rated game, but I’d be fine with it if it had more swearing. As long as the vulgarity is done within non-silly levels. Like Bulletstorm. The vulgarity is trying to be overtop but comes across silly and just dumb.

One cool aspect of Brink is the multicultural element of the game that is seldom found in many games: its ok to play as anything you want in Brink. And its handled in a way to avoid racist stuff that usually goes hand-in-hand with it. An amazing feat that this game is able to accomplish.


(Dragnerok X) #11

I don’t understand why this guy is getting so much heat for an earnest thank you to the developers.

I swear like a mother****er, don’t get me wrong, but I am a little thankful that this game wasn’t littered with curse words and hyper-sexualized characters. And yes, there is a difference between a bunch of really fit guys (they HAVE to be to pull offthe crap they do) and being hyper-sexualized. (Though, admittedly, my main is DAMNED sexy - if I were a chick, I would totally want his nuts… But then again, he looks like me and I’m a narcissist…)
Violence and gaming are two things that have always been… It’s only natural at this point that we accept that and are comfortable with it (there are varying degrees of violence from cartoonish to the purely gory), but I am sick of games tossing around curse words like some 9 year old who just learned them… It’s like they’re trying TOO HARD to be the “cool kid.” It’s sad, more often than not - especially in a game where the dialogue was otherwise well-written and voiced.

While I think his implications at the end of the OP (Bought Brink over a “AAA title”) were a bit rude and likely not intended, I agree with the rest of his statement.

His or her… I didn’t feel like typing that through out.

Thanks for the understanding.

While I’ll admit this puts me in a minority, I guess I’m just one of those people who is sensitive to excessive graphic content in games, just as I’m offended by seeing / hearing those sorts of things in the real world (and don’t tell me to “get used to it” :P). While I don’t think this is always the case, I agree that there are a lot of game franchises out there that appear to be trying to be excessively graphic to get appeal to a certain audience.

Of course, I did not mean to say that Brink was necessarily a bad game with my AAA comment as I meant to demonstrate that I chose Brink over games that I would have purchased as a result of its less graphic nature.

…and just to clarify, I’m a man.


(H0RSE) #12

Cursing in games is fine, when it’s done well. For example, Epic does a good job with cursing and violence in games. No matter how gratuitous or wanton they are, they fit there games, like Gears of War and Bulletstorm. An example of when it is not done well is Bad Company 2. In multiplayer, when the players curse, it sounds so scripted, fake and forced - like the developers only added cursing as a gimmicky way to boost sales or their “cool” factor. Whenever I hear the players curse in that game, it reminds me of when Mom and Dad would leave and your little brother would start cursing just because he thought it was cool.


(Zekariah) #13

This.

Epic is a good example. You KNOW what you are getting into when buying an Epic game. And I think the chainsaw through the sternum is a little more shocking than the “F” bomb popping up a couple of times.

I see where the OP is going, tho. And I also think it was refreshing for Brink to be a game that I would not worry about playing in front of my Grandmother. The Halo series is another good example for the most part. (or WAS there a couple of “F” bombs in Reach?)

But it’s also nice to see female characters in video games go the other way these days too. I’m talking Mass Effect and the new Tomb Raider. They are still attractive females, yet not unrealistically busting at the seams. The BB (Bouncing Boobs) effect is better left in the 90’s where Duke Nukem should be.

Still want that? The internet is full of free porn…


(zenstar) #14

[QUOTE=Zekariah;375435]This.

Epic is a good example. You KNOW what you are getting into when buying an Epic game. And I think the chainsaw through the sternum is a little more shocking than the “F” bomb popping up a couple of times.

I see where the OP is going, tho. And I also think it was refreshing for Brink to be a game that I would not worry about playing in front of my Grandmother. The Halo series is another good example for the most part. (or WAS there a couple of “F” bombs in Reach?)

But it’s also nice to see female characters in video games go the other way these days too. I’m talking Mass Effect and the new Tomb Raider. They are still attractive females, yet not unrealistically busting at the seams. The BB (Bouncing Boobs) effect is better left in the 90’s where Duke Nukem should be.

Still want that? The internet is full of free porn…[/QUOTE]

TBH: games should be like tv programs / movies in this respect. There should be violent ones, funny ones, naughty ones, scary ones, relaxing ones, confusing ones, etc.

I really don’t mind if someone doesn’t play a game because of the swearing or the sexualization of the characters or whatever. It’s their entertainment, they get to choose what they want to relax with. By the same notion I get to choose what I relax with and noone should complain about what I choose.

As long as the industry stays healthy and the indie devs continue to push boundries we should always have a good range of games. Even the generic mainstream shooters serve their purpose. They’re like the sitcoms of the gaming genre. Everyone plays them because everyone plays them and they get replaced by the next mainstream generic game that comes along. Nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like it then stick to the indie fringe.

And as the industry and the gamers mature we’re getting more mature characters (like the new tomb raider). I’m pretty sure movies and tv have all been through a very similar progression.

The only issue I have with all this is idiot parents who think that all video games are for children and then complain when their little 10 year-old is swearing like a trooper and scared of nurses after buying and letting him play CoD and Silent Hill. Games have age restrictions like movies and just like movies it is up to the parent to enforce a level of structure that takes the content and the child into account.


(Zekariah) #15

[QUOTE=zenstar;375442]TBH: games should be like tv programs / movies in this respect. There should be violent ones, funny ones, naughty ones, scary ones, relaxing ones, confusing ones, etc.

I really don’t mind if someone doesn’t play a game because of the swearing or the sexualization of the characters or whatever. It’s their entertainment, they get to choose what they want to relax with. By the same notion I get to choose what I relax with and noone should complain about what I choose.

As long as the industry stays healthy and the indie devs continue to push boundries we should always have a good range of games. Even the generic mainstream shooters serve their purpose. They’re like the sitcoms of the gaming genre. Everyone plays them because everyone plays them and they get replaced by the next mainstream generic game that comes along. Nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like it then stick to the indie fringe.

And as the industry and the gamers mature we’re getting more mature characters (like the new tomb raider). I’m pretty sure movies and tv have all been through a very similar progression.

The only issue I have with all this is idiot parents who think that all video games are for children and then complain when their little 10 year-old is swearing like a trooper and scared of nurses after buying and letting him play CoD and Silent Hill. Games have age restrictions like movies and just like movies it is up to the parent to enforce a level of structure that takes the content and the child into account.[/QUOTE]

Thus, the big debate over here in OZ to bring in a R18+ rating to games.

We currently only have G (General Exhibition), PG (Parental Guidance Recommended), M (Mature Audiences) and MA15+ (Mature Audiences 15yrs And Over). But this has limited Australia from importing games such as the new Mortal Kombat, Left 4 Dead 2 and even Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude…ok, bad example

I’m not necessarily saying I’d get any of those games, but adult gamers are still not properly recognised here in OZ and some games that SHOULD be R18+ rated are slipping through the cracks as an MA15+ rating.

The Government is currently going through the debate for this classification, but it’s clear in this day and age that the gamers from the NES and Sega age are ALL GROWN UP, but still love our games.

Recognition…come forth.


(zenstar) #16

[QUOTE=Zekariah;375443]Thus, the big debate over here in OZ to bring in a R18+ rating to games.

We currently only have G (General Exhibition), PG (Parental Guidance Recommended), M (Mature Audiences) and MA15+ (Mature Audiences 15yrs And Over). But this has limited Australia from importing games such as the new Mortal Kombat, Left 4 Dead 2 and even Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude…ok, bad example

I’m not necessarily saying I’d get any of those games, but adult gamers are still not properly recognised here in OZ and some games that SHOULD be R18+ rated are slipping through the cracks as an MA15+ rating.

The Government is currently going through the debate for this classification, but it’s clear in this day and age that the gamers from the NES and Sega age are ALL GROWN UP, but still love our games.

Recognition…come forth.[/QUOTE]

IMO: if you have adult only movies then you should have adult only games. They’re all just entertainment.
Yeah. Oz really need to sort out an 18+ age restriction. Not having one is plain ridiculous. And why stop at 15 and not 18 or 3? How did that get defined as a cutoff point? Are you completely innocent of the world until you hit 16? Or is your 16th birthday the one where they march you into the medical building to have your tracking chip implanted and your freedom to choose removed?

It’s the sort of attitude that reminds me of the whole “anime is a cartoon, cartoons are for children, hence anime is for children” and then their kid sees some BTS or some other body horror anime (or violent shooter or any adult anime) and is too scared to sleep at night. And that really gets idiotic parents livid. It’s obviously not their fault for buying “Ninja Demo F*** Fest 6” for their 5 year-old. It’s quite obviously the shop that is trying to corrupt the youth by peddling them filth in the form of cartoons to get them hooked on crack at a young age. It’s never the parents’ fault for not monitoring what their child is consuming. /rolls eyes


(nephandys) #17

[QUOTE=zenstar;375442]TBH: games should be like tv programs / movies in this respect. There should be violent ones, funny ones, naughty ones, scary ones, relaxing ones, confusing ones, etc.

I really don’t mind if someone doesn’t play a game because of the swearing or the sexualization of the characters or whatever. It’s their entertainment, they get to choose what they want to relax with. By the same notion I get to choose what I relax with and noone should complain about what I choose.

As long as the industry stays healthy and the indie devs continue to push boundries we should always have a good range of games. Even the generic mainstream shooters serve their purpose. They’re like the sitcoms of the gaming genre. Everyone plays them because everyone plays them and they get replaced by the next mainstream generic game that comes along. Nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like it then stick to the indie fringe.

And as the industry and the gamers mature we’re getting more mature characters (like the new tomb raider). I’m pretty sure movies and tv have all been through a very similar progression.

The only issue I have with all this is idiot parents who think that all video games are for children and then complain when their little 10 year-old is swearing like a trooper and scared of nurses after buying and letting him play CoD and Silent Hill. Games have age restrictions like movies and just like movies it is up to the parent to enforce a level of structure that takes the content and the child into account.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to be cheerleading, but this sums up my views exactly.


(zenstar) #18

I’m completely happy with cheerleading :slight_smile:
Srsly (and a little offtopic): You avatar reminds me - Super Monday Night Combat has been announced as a F2P game.
More quality competition for Brink on the way (since MNC is a team based shooter and was a pretty quality title esp for an indie title).
Maybe Brink should look at F2P? Are they going to draw in any more customers or would they make more money switching to microtransactions and selling content ingame?
/shrug.


(nephandys) #19

[QUOTE=zenstar;375567]I’m completely happy with cheerleading :slight_smile:
Srsly (and a little offtopic): You avatar reminds me - Super Monday Night Combat has been announced as a F2P game.
More quality competition for Brink on the way (since MNC is a team based shooter and was a pretty quality title esp for an indie title).
Maybe Brink should look at F2P? Are they going to draw in any more customers or would they make more money switching to microtransactions and selling content ingame?
/shrug.[/QUOTE]
It’s not necessarily a bad idea. Part of the issue though that I’ve heard from many a developer across genres is that the game needs to be designed from the ground up with F2P in mind or else it can feel tacked on or not be effective/useful. That’s not to say a game can’t make the transition over to F2P, but that’s more than just making it free and figuring things out from there.

The biggest problem I think for Brink’s longevity (and tons of people have pointed this out) in comparison to a game like MNC for example, is the lack of a metagame or only a minimal one at best. Other posters probably concieve of what I’m saying here when they point out the low skill ceiling in Brink. For example in MNC all the classes have pretty specific roles to fill - tank and sin are pushing bots, assault is harassing snipers, gunner is slaying pros, support is healing everyone, etc. Therefore there’s lots of metagame depth in class match ups (Sin v. Gunner - do I jump when the gunner spots me because he’s going to slam or is he going to try to outsmart me with a double grapple and slam combo?), map positioning, map control, juice rushing, turret building (timing, which turrets to build, do I level them up, etc.), etc. You’re looking at a game with only 6 maps that kept me occupied for 9 months +. In Brink the lack of these discussions, thoughts, strategizing is what I find disappointing. That whole metagame was a game in and of itself and kept me interested over all that time despite only having 6 maps.

I’ve tried to conceptualize this game more in said fashion and I just can’t do it. Like no matter what class I am or what map I am playing battles generally all progress the same. Certainly there are strategic points to take control of on each map and knowing when to push, but these don’t make up a metagame in my mind they’re simply average gameplay elements.

Uber is 100% dedicated to the MNC IP. They will do anything and everything to pursue making that IP a success. Hence the decisions they have made thus far. This even includes the latest decision to announce a new MNC title as PC only when their largest player base is clearly on the Xbox (more people play in 1 day on Xbox than all week on Steam). There has been no caving to publisher demands as they have no one to answer to outside of the Steam and XBLA platforms. I have no idea how they accomplished this as a startup except to use only online distribution through Steam and XBLA. Unlike SD, MNC was Uber’s first game and it appears they did very well because of it. This leaves me wondering why SD has struggled so much finanicially when they have a few titles under their belt that both were more expensive than MNC ever was and sold more copies as well.

*Again big Brink lover here, but it could’ve been so much more.


(zenstar) #20

All interesting and good points. But lets not derail the thread anymore :slight_smile: