Why do I have to select 3 mercs to play for pubs?


(znuund) #1

Have you ever had a 8vs8 and your whole team does not have a single medic class except you? are you also one of those guys, who have no slot free because you have 1 slot for a medic, 1 slot for an engi and 1 slot for something to destroy the ev? but what if the enemy team has a good vassili and you need a redeye to counter him?

Of course you can always sit through the game and say “it’s just pubs”. But the limitation doesn’t really bring something cool into the gameplay imo.

I do understand that it brings some tactical touch in ranked. but in pubs there are situations where I would like to have the choice among at least 5 mercs rather than 3. If you want you can also make more slots purchasable, so you can dump some coins in it.


(bgyoshi) #2

At that point it might as well be “Choose any merc you want any time”

It’s hard to talk about pub improvements because SD doesn’t seem very interested in balancing it out with Ranked in any way. For example, they believe the core of DB is 5v5. 5v5 is the perfect amount of players and the entire game is designed around 5v5.

Yeah…I notice all that 5v5 in anything except Ranked.

3 mercs is fine. This isn’t Overwatch, there really isn’t any class that requires a specific hard-counter merc.


(znuund) #3

I guess it would make more sense to test stuff on a mode where there are a statistical amount of players, but this here is not about ranked anyway.

Of course there are no hard-counters but there are mercs or even perks, who counter other mercs pretty or at least some of their abilities efficiently. (I actually never tried, but can a redeye see a disguised phantom?)

And in overwatch pubs you can also run anything if you want, but some compositions just work better.


(bgyoshi) #4

Anyone can see a disguised Phantom, even when they stand still.

The point wasn’t comparing the ability to pick anything you want vs being limited to 3 mercs, the point what that this isn’t a game that relies on hard counters. There isn’t much of a need to make sure your team perfectly counters their team.

Especially in 8v8, which is way too much of a fustercluck even for me


(Teflon Love) #5

@znuund said:
Have you ever had a 8vs8 and your whole team does not have a single medic class except you?

Two options:

  1. Play medic
  2. Change server (no penalty on pubs)

are you also one of those guys, who have no slot free because you have 1 slot for a medic, 1 slot for an engi and 1 slot for something to destroy the ev? but what if the enemy team has a good vassili and you need a redeye to counter him?

Two options:

  1. Pick Arty with Stark --> you can still go for the EV, deliver ammo and should be able to at least somewhat annoy the sniper with your Stark
  2. Change server (no penalty on pubs)

(GatoCommodore) #6

@znuund said:
I guess it would make more sense to test stuff on a mode where there are a statistical amount of players, but this here is not about ranked anyway.

Of course there are no hard-counters but there are mercs or even perks, who counter other mercs pretty or at least some of their abilities efficiently. (I actually never tried, but can a redeye see a disguised phantom?)

And in overwatch pubs you can also run anything if you want, but some compositions just work better.

thats why you

GIT
U
D

so you can snipe that vasilli with your deagle
(you can do that, its definetly easier now since theres crosschair on ads)


(znuund) #7

@teflonlove said:
Anyone can see a disguised Phantom, even when they stand still.
Especially hear them.

The point wasn’t comparing the ability to pick anything you want vs being limited to 3 mercs, > the point what that this isn’t a game that relies on hard counters. There isn’t much of a need > to make sure your team perfectly counters their team.

fair enough!

@teflonlove said:
Two options:

  1. Play medic
    I usually play medic, I played that class in ET. That’s what I can play best and where I have an impact on a (pub)game. But that is not the problem. I can also have the attitude to not care about anything and just play what I want. But even then, I can only play 3 mercs and have to switch after the game. but yeah, that still doesn’t answer what is good about only choosing 3 mercs.

Two options:

  1. Pick Arty with Stark --> you can still go for the EV, deliver ammo and should be able to at least somewhat annoy the sniper with your Stark

even though burst rifles are super strong, they are definitely not in my hands xD

@teflonlove said:
2. Change server (no penalty on pubs)
That is not the problem. I can also play another game, I don’t think anyone cares.
I just fail to see the advantages to have 3 mercs to chose from rather than all of them, in a mode where it is all about fun. I was hoping someone could point me in a direction, so I can see the light as well :slight_smile:

Is it because it is something new no other game has?


(Loki.) #8

Limited choices during a match limits your player base…

Simple as that…

Why SD choose this game style, since it doesn’t follow their history (W:ET and ETQW (don’t even mention Brink to me) ) is beyond me and many longtime SD followers…


(znuund) #9

@GatoCommodore said:
thats why you

GIT
U
D

so you can snipe that vasilli with your deagle
(you can do that, its definetly easier now since theres crosschair on ads)

can’t nerd that hard to git gud, like in the old times :frowning:

I prefer the selbstadt with its inexistent recoil.


(AlbinMatt) #10

@znuund said:

@GatoCommodore said:
thats why you

GIT
U
D

so you can snipe that vasilli with your deagle
(you can do that, its definetly easier now since theres crosschair on ads)

can’t nerd that hard to git gud, like in the old times :frowning:

I prefer the selbstadt with its inexistent recoil.

Look for any loadout with “81” at the end. Shelby and Beck just makes every other primary useless.


(znuund) #11

@AlbinMatt said:

@znuund said:

@GatoCommodore said:
thats why you

GIT
U
D

so you can snipe that vasilli with your deagle
(you can do that, its definetly easier now since theres crosschair on ads)

can’t nerd that hard to git gud, like in the old times :frowning:

I prefer the selbstadt with its inexistent recoil.

Look for any loadout with “81” at the end. Shelby and Beck just makes every other primary useless.

shelby and beck?


(AlbinMatt) #12

@znuund said:

@AlbinMatt said:

@znuund said:

@GatoCommodore said:
thats why you

GIT
U
D

so you can snipe that vasilli with your deagle
(you can do that, its definetly easier now since theres crosschair on ads)

can’t nerd that hard to git gud, like in the old times :frowning:

I prefer the selbstadt with its inexistent recoil.

Look for any loadout with “81” at the end. Shelby and Beck just makes every other primary useless.

shelby and beck?

Selbsatdt and Beckhill Combat Knife.


(Teflon Love) #13

@znuund said:

@teflonlove said:
2. Change server (no penalty on pubs)
That is not the problem. I can also play another game, I don’t think anyone cares.

Well, the point I was trying to make in an apparently too concise way:

If the teams on a server are broken beyond repair, don’t waste your time and change the server instead.

In some cases one might be able to improve the balance by switching to the other team (which can be a nice challenge), but the cases you mentioned already describe a situation where you are on the losing team and giving your best does not help.

I just fail to see the advantages to have 3 mercs to chose from rather than all of them, in a mode where it is all about fun. I was hoping someone could point me in a direction, so I can see the light as well :slight_smile:

Provided the players are somewhat sensible and skilled, it’s interesting to find your role with limited options. Especially for Stopwatch, where you have to cover both sides with your loadout.

For example on Bridge: Do I pick Nader to blow up the generator as attacker or pick Arty to destroy the EV as defender? Do I pick an engineer to help repairing the EV or Red Eye to provide smoke during repairing? Do I pick Aura to establish a solid defense or Phonix to more efficiently help pushing during attack? Does my loadout fix missing roles my team mates left open so far?

IMHO this provides a kind of depth that many other “hero based” games lack.


(Loki.) #14

Limited choices during a match limits your player base…

Simple as that…

Why SD choose this game style, since it doesn’t follow their history (W:ET and ETQW (don’t even mention Brink to me) ) is beyond me and many longtime SD followers…


(HammerOfDawn21) #15

@6429F1740165 said:
Limited choices during a match limits your player base…

Simple as that…

Why SD choose this game style, since it doesn’t follow their history (W:ET and ETQW (don’t even mention Brink to me) ) is beyond me and many longtime SD followers…

3 merc rule is a good thing, it adds depth to the gameplay, I don’t understand how it limits the player base. Objective and stopwatch matches are much better with the 3 merc rule.

Now that they’ve disowned the execution mode, maybe they can remove merc limitations from execution matches for some guilty pleasure.


(znuund) #16

@teflonlove said:
Well, the point I was trying to make in an apparently too concise way:

If the teams on a server are broken beyond repair, don’t waste your time and change the server instead.

In some cases one might be able to improve the balance by switching to the other team (which can be a nice challenge), but the cases you mentioned already describe a situation where you are on the losing team and giving your best does not help.
As everybody, I have been on both sides of broken and beyond teams. And I actually rather be on the losing team for a little challenge and sometimes it would help to have another merc than those of my choice.

Provided the players are somewhat sensible and skilled, it’s interesting to find your role with limited options. Especially for Stopwatch, where you have to cover both sides with your loadout.

For example on Bridge: Do I pick Nader to blow up the generator as attacker or pick Arty to destroy the EV as defender? Do I pick an engineer to help repairing the EV or Red Eye to provide smoke during repairing? Do I pick Aura to establish a solid defense or Phonix to more efficiently help pushing during attack? Does my loadout fix missing roles my team mates left open so far?

IMHO this provides a kind of depth that many other “hero based” games lack.

Yes, I totally agree that this is a very unique thing and for stopwatch which is one of the most fun modes to play. I wouldn’t want to change that for stopwatch.

You could also have another objective mode, where you could chose among all mercs and one where you could only chose 3 mercs. But distributing among many game modes would again limit the players for one game mode.

What would you think to make objective a “sandbox” mode where you can learn the maps and have unlimited merc choices and stopwatch leave as it is? Would that make every new player chose and stick to objective mode (would that be a bad thing? :smile: )?
One could look at that like a beginners mode.
In the end in every playerbase you have players which play to win, play to have fun only and try hard wnbpros. In course of countless hours playing the same game, you get to a point where you want to increase the difficulty. battlefield series, this is the hardcore mode. In enemy territory you also had jaymod and noquarter servers which had stuff like double jump, huge player numbers (32vs32) and was generally belittled from an etpro mod player, where you had much more recoil, less ammo and start from xp 0 every game.

I just think that serving to every class of gamer in a game, would make the people keep playing the same game. For me, increasing the playerbase is equal to increasing the customer count: you need to make the customer not just come once, but regularly.

Objective would be sandbox level (noquarter/jaymod).
Stopwatch felt always harder and would be hardcore level (etpro).
Ranked would be competitive level (scrims, clanbase).


(Teflon Love) #17

@znuund said:
You could also have another objective mode, where you could chose among all mercs and one where you could only chose 3 mercs.

From what I recall from a couple of older discussions there seems to be a need for servers with unrestricted silliness, which could offer modes to pick any merc any time, restrict choices to sniper only, knife only etc.

One solution for that would be community servers where people could rent a server and configure it to whatever kind of gameplay they prefer. XP probably would have to be deactivated for servers with non standard modes.

But distributing among many game modes would again limit the players for one game mode.

This certainly is something SD has to monitor when adding new game modes.


(Loki.) #18

@HammerOfDawn21 said:

@6429F1740165 said:
Limited choices during a match limits your player base…

Simple as that…

Why SD choose this game style, since it doesn’t follow their history (W:ET and ETQW (don’t even mention Brink to me) ) is beyond me and many longtime SD followers…

3 merc rule is a good thing, it adds depth to the gameplay, I don’t understand how it limits the player base. Objective and stopwatch matches are much better with the 3 merc rule.

Now that they’ve disowned the execution mode, maybe they can remove merc limitations from execution matches for some guilty pleasure.

We’ll have to agree to disagree, personally I don’t see how removing ‘choices’ during game-play adds depth to a Objective Based online-MP game… All it adds is frustration when you have a team full of LTs (i.e. Skyhammers) and no Engineers or medics…

It forces certain players to choose specific classes for each match. Case in point, I always have a medic and engineer on hand, so now am limited to just ONE choice… I have almost every merc and rarely play anything other then an LT, Medic, or Engineer cause the team(s) am on don’t play objective based classes…

Past SD games you could quickly switch between classes, whatever was needed at the time… Made the game far more enjoyable and less frustrating, since you didn’t have to rely so Heavily on random players…

All IMO of course…


(MrFunkyFunk) #19

Past SD games you could quickly switch between classes, whatever was needed at the time… Made the game far more enjoyable and less frustrating, since you didn’t have to rely so Heavily on random players…

All IMO of course…

In the alpha you could pick a merc from any of the archetypes in-game (like previous SD games), if I remember correctly they blamed “”“technical limitations”"" when they shortened it to “3 mercs of your choosing”.


(Teflon Love) #20

@MrFunkyFunk said:
if I remember correctly they blamed “”“technical limitations”"" when they shortened it to “3 mercs of your choosing”.

Well, if any player could switch to any merc with any loadout (including all the special ones) they game would have to keep a huge amount of textures in memory.