Why did you nuke Phantom over just nerfing him?

(Azure) #1

Now every merc is hurting over the damn melee change. Not to mention it feels gross trying to melee and having your turn speed locked.

(jetJester) #2

I hope that they rushed the update because besides bug fixes this update didn’t bring good things in almost all directions imo
Let’s hope they bring the game in decent state anytime soon?

(Alphafox) #3

Simple, katana seemed ‘‘OP’’ in some people eyes, those people sadly didn’t understand why it was like this. It was like this because of 1) One of Phantom loadout had chopper and the katana which could:

A) 1 Shot low hp mercs (Just like a full shotgun blast, a sniper headshot and grenades could)

(B) Had the katana which had a perioid where it could deal damage that seemed ‘‘long’’ for some user.

Not considering that melee was pretty much already dead, in a coffin and six feet under the ground, SD decided to universally nerf all of it’s components and made melee a aspect of the game where it only make you run faster.

RIP melee.

(WinterShade) #4

[quote=“Alphafox;51444”]Simple, katana seemed ‘‘OP’’ in some people eyes, those people sadly didn’t understand why it was like this. It was like this because of 1) One of Phantom loadout had chopper and the katana which could:

A) 1 Shot low hp mercs (Just like a full shotgun blast, a sniper headshot and grenades could)

(B) Had the katana which had a perioid where it could deal damage that seemed ‘‘long’’ for some user.

Not considering that melee was pretty much already dead, in a coffin and six feet under the ground, SD decided to universally nerf all of it’s components and made melee a aspect of the game where it only make you run faster.

RIP melee.[/quote]

Melee provides the same speed modifier as most if not all pistols so why even bother using melee anymore except for those isolated finishes?

(Nail) #5

I would expect to see further adjustments

(WinterShade) #6

One can only hope, I can understand a partial turn limiter, but something far from what they have now.

(Nail) #7

it’s how you do stuff, try something, adjust, try again, adjust again, good to go hopefully

(Amerika) #8

This patch was pretty good overall. The spin speed can definitely be adjusted but I think this is more of an issue with people using the quick melee bind, which is actually not quick at all and uses the secondary attack, instead of switching to your knife and using the actual quick melee. Using the quick melee is a bit annoying still but it’s only just annoying. But anybody using quick melee will definitely have some issues.

The FPS fix was pretty solid. I can now keep a constant 144 if I lock my FPS down to my refresh rate using even High settings. However, locking out a few values without providing sliders first was a bit premature. It wasn’t an issue up until now so it could have waited until there were UI based options.

(Cr4zy) #9

[quote=“Amerika;51541”]
The FPS fix was pretty solid. I can now keep a constant 144 if I lock my FPS down to my refresh rate using even High settings. However, locking out a few values without providing sliders first was a bit premature. It wasn’t an issue up until now so it could have waited until there were UI based options.[/quote]

How the hell? I drop to sub 30 on low and rarely if ever see 120+ anymore.

(Azure) #10

[quote=“Amerika;51541”]This patch was pretty good overall. The spin speed can definitely be adjusted but I think this is more of an issue with people using the quick melee bind, which is actually not quick at all and uses the secondary attack, instead of switching to your knife and using the actual quick melee. Using the quick melee is a bit annoying still but it’s only just annoying. But anybody using quick melee will definitely have some issues.

The FPS fix was pretty solid. I can now keep a constant 144 if I lock my FPS down to my refresh rate using even High settings. However, locking out a few values without providing sliders first was a bit premature. It wasn’t an issue up until now so it could have waited until there were UI based options.[/quote]

I would’ve thought a moderator would understand that the turn lock is a horrible hotfix for this ‘keyblade’ exploit (Never seen it happen before). You cannot put an invisible brickwall down in a fast paced game and call it a fix or ‘fine tuning’. If the turn speed was reduced AFTER a 90-120 degree turn then that would not be so drastic… Phantom is shown even in the trailer to delete the sniper/squishy classes with MELEE. You cannot do that now and leaves you too open for getting 1 hit by a shotgun or just getting knifed in the back by proxy/aura/sparks because most characters could already counter him by pure movement before the nerf.

(Ghosthree3) #11

Meleeing people with knives is out of the question now. It’s not worth trying, it was hard enough hitting heavy slashes with them before, now it’s actually impossible.

(Mister__Wiggles) #12

I would be happy with all that they nerfed as long as they give him something to contribute to the team but they didn’t. All he’s good for is killing and rhino and fragger do it better.

(Daergar) #13

[left]Chopper did nothing to the alt-stab one-shotting low hp mercs. It does 104.5 instead of 108 damage now unless my math is off. So basically it hurt every other merc instead.

The turn-speed ruined the legitimate melee completely. Surely a cap at 120 degrees or some such would be better.

I had an excellent potato config that let me run at a locked down, solid 125 fps (could have gone higher but what would be the point). I am sure I can find or make another one, was just worried the listed changes would scream if I tried to boot the game without the .ini readable.

The best part? Having Voice forced back on for no reason, almost shitting my pants when some russian started screaming over my speakers. Bloody brilliant.[/left]

(kittenishPond) #14

Because this was him before the patch


Edit: No but seriously he is over nerfed, a small buff may be in order.

(robustWonder) #15

I hear this complaint and it is complete ignorance.

No other character can sneak behind the enemy line and delay your opponents with hit and run tactics. When a team does not have Phantom the enemy has it simple, they watch the front lines and kill anyone that shows up.

With Phantom on your team the enemy has to spread out their defense and not only watch the front lines but also guard their rear. If a Phantom is good enough to get into their spawn and kill them, some of the enemies will run around trying to find him instead of focusing on the objective.

I don’t see a Fragger or Rhino sneaking up behind the enemy killing then running and vanishing and getting away to regenerate.

I’ve also seen a cloaked Phantom sit hidden near an armed C4, the enemy rushes past, then Phantom and stabs the disarmer and rehides.

I myself have used Phantom to rush ahead of my team cloaked, grab the objective, then rush back before the enemy knows what is going on.

What you are really saying is that Phantom doesn’t help you specifically in earning points or keeping you alive. No, he doesn’t help you by giving you ammo or tossing down health packs, he disrupts the enemies and scatters them and if he gets lucky cloaks past the enemies and captures the objective or stabs that sniper that is constantly killing your team.

All action MMOs from LoL to most shooters have a character archtype that does this, even TF2.

(Azure) #16

I hear this complaint and it is complete ignorance.

No other character can sneak behind the enemy line and delay your opponents with hit and run tactics. When a team does not have Phantom the enemy has it simple, they watch the front lines and kill anyone that shows up.

With Phantom on your team the enemy has to spread out their defense and not only watch the front lines but also guard their rear. If a Phantom is good enough to get into their spawn and kill them, some of the enemies will run around trying to find him instead of focusing on the objective.

I don’t see a Fragger or Rhino sneaking up behind the enemy killing then running and vanishing and getting away to regenerate.

I’ve also seen a cloaked Phantom sit hidden near an armed C4, the enemy rushes past, then Phantom and stabs the disarmer and rehides.

I myself have used Phantom to rush ahead of my team cloaked, grab the objective, then rush back before the enemy knows what is going on.

What you are really saying is that Phantom doesn’t help you specifically in earning points or keeping you alive. No, he doesn’t help you by giving you ammo or tossing down health packs, he disrupts the enemies and scatters them and if he gets lucky cloaks past the enemies and captures the objective or stabs that sniper that is constantly killing your team.

All action MMOs from LoL to most shooters have a character archtype that does this, even TF2.[/quote]

Proxy/Aura/Sparks can easily get behind the enemy from just their speed alone. Phantom currently can barely hit a non-moving target. He can be seen way too easily (It was damn easy before that nerf)

When phantom is defending he is basically a Proxy mine check your corners instead of mindlessly running to the C4… but now if you keep walking you can get away from his attack and then counter stab him which is beyond sound balancing.

(oG_Dayton) #17

Even before the patch I never got steamed rolled by a phantoms. Hell it was near impossible to stab me when i played proxy/aura/sparks anyone that can out sprint a phantom. Only times i died from a phantom was when they legitimately back stabbed me or i was distracted with his team. THAT was what phantom was supposed to be able to do kill key components of the enemy team- medics/snipers/ammo dumpers/attackers(rhino,fragger,nader). Now its just dam impossible to do one shots on medics because most of them jump off a wall or sprint away. Better off sneaking behind the enemy with a Crotizi and going for headshots.

(ShoNailo) #18

Every mechanic you highlighted as a strength for Phantom received a nerf in this patch, on top of the movement-speed hindering nerf people are actually complaining about.

You’re basically making their point.

A) Phantom’s RA has a longer cooldown (which hinders his hide-and defend tactic you described)

B) Phantom’s RA is more visible (which greatly hinders his getting behind enemy lines tactic you described)

C) Phantom’s RA absorbs less damage than before (fantastic change, but also hinder’s his overall game play you describe, as he’s now the first one to step on a mine, or walk into a Rhino’s den, etc etc…)

And this topic is mostly focusing on the change to overall Melee which is the only nerf I think was overkill.

You’re basically saying that nerfing melee into the ground isn’t overnerfing Phantom because of all the other mechanics that he has, yet they all got nerfed too…

So… Phantom is in a rough spot. Forget the hate that people built up for him over the last few weeks, and assess his current state, and the state of all melee game play for that matter.

I think the old Phantom and Katana game play was OP, but this? You might as well have left him as a myth from Closed Beta… Not worth the money/credits… Just not a fun character to play as is.

(WinterShade) #19

I still try and play Phantom post patch to see if there are any viable strategies to him that can’t be accomplished by other classes (so far not noticing any) and I’ve only managed to land 5 heavy hits, all on somebody delivering an objective, the heavy attack has become useless. Fast attack attacks faster, slightly higher chance of hitting your target and only has a small damage penalty.