White Chapel Feedback

[FROST1]

[QUOTE=Loffy;415505]Let’s work together to evolve, improve, and keep WC ;D

When the EV makes its first left turn, and starts heading towards the chapel, could the environment be made a bit brighter? I.e., make the map less dark in that area, please. There are a lot of duels and fighting going on there, so it is imperative that the conditions are fair.[/QUOTE]

WC would definitely benefit from a more even lighting. No pitch black areas and no retina burning highlights* either. It’s night and all, but some areas are definitely too dark(or to bright); BUT we may not forget, that the chars would usually have those fluorescenting stripes on their gear. Something that got lost in one of the patches due to a bug or something; if I understood Locki correctly.(asked him about that ingame)

*most of them are gone with the recent patch

[warbie]

Would it be a silly amount of work to stretch everything and give more space for fighting?

[rookie1]

Wc can be challenging and not easy to win its ok with me ,one thing i dont like is the lifting is far too slow there is lots of time wasted there imo.
We are here for that …find ideas to adjust …dont scrap!

[iwound]

             .. I always try to find at least 1 thing about the map I like and then I can try and not crush the LD's feelings... 

             just buy him/her some chocolates. ive scrapped many a map. took it to the woods and boom never seen again.

ill try and point out the good bits aswell.

With all due respect, but just dumping WC would be outright crazy.

why you quoting me and saying that, i never said scrap it.:mad: pff

  Can we get an overhead plan picture of whitechapel?         

if SD wants some non random feedback we need this pronto. because otherwise were just trying to describe areas we are talking about. and its all a bit messy tbh

[Chris2]

Would it be a silly amount of work to stretch everything and give more space for fighting?

[QUOTE=MrEd;415461]Whitechapel also got iterated hugely during its blockout stage until it reached a point where it was fun enough to do the full art pass. Now that is a very tricky stage for a map as real meshes have different characteristics to fully BSP blockouts, it might be a subtle thing here and there that makes a dramatic affect on how the map plays. Walls get thicker, doorways narrower, corridors longer, edges become sticky to collision, angle of fire get obscured and new death traps created.

So after the art pass the level designers have to go back in and rebalance the map for its new characteristics, you might say it’s the awkward adolescent phase. London Bridge and Waterloo both had their awkward phases, Camden undoubtedly will do at some point down the line and that is the stage Whitechapel is at now.[/QUOTE]

Piece of cake…

In some area’s it would mean rebuilding most of the area but for the street leading up to the chapel I don’t think it be too hard to shift all the buildings on the right hand side (when facing the the chapel) further to the right as there isn’t anything behind them. For the bridge area though, I guess you could drag all the buildings on the right (from defence perspective) further away and extend the bridge afterwards.

[iwound]

i think they ought to try warbie & chris’s suggestion just to see how a roomier version would play.

[FROST1]

why you quoting me and saying that, i never said scrap it.:mad: pff

Sry, think I got that wrong. I’ve read your “…many a map…” as “many of maps”.

PS: Not a rhetorical question; wouldn’t one say “…much a map…” since I can’t see what you mean with ‘many’? This is way beyond off topic, I know, but I’d appreciate it, if someone could answer me that in a pm. Thanx in advance, and sorry again ‘iwound’.

[Crispy]

I’d ask people to consider whether their feedback truly offers constructive criticism before hitting the post button.

Here are some tips for giving feedback that will help us address the issues you are experiencing, or reinforce the positive elements of the game you enjoy:

[ul]
[li] If you dislike something, tell us why with specifics.[/li][li] Don’t just react: analyse! Describe the causes, not just the symptoms. ‘Boredom’ is a symptom. ‘Long travel time’ might be the cause.[/li][li] Consider what the goal of the feature/objective is or should be, and try to explain how you think this goal could be better achieved.[/li][li] Draw comparisons to other similar situations that better accomplish the goal, with concrete examples. Can you draw a similarity with another good (or bad) experience in another game? We’ve probably played it and will understand the reference.[/li][li] When describing something in depth, for every 500 words add 1 annotated image to illustrate your point (if you’re using that many words you’re probably describing a complex notion).[/li][li] Consider what you like as well as what you dislike. Often, when you focus on what’s enjoyable you begin to be able to say more concrete things about why something else is less enjoyable and, even better, how it could be improved.[/li][/ul]

[SockDog]

Until something better comes along here is a quick spectator view of the whole map.

I wonder if the end carry event couldn’t be pushed back to retrieving items from the church and the ammo container part staged around the building site or that upper lift area the EV parks on. This would create a bit more travel time (remove/reduce the lift speed objective) but encourage a bit more fighting out in those semi open areas.

[tokamak]

Can we get an overhead plan picture of whitechapel?

This. Very much this. I have my crayons ready.

[Thundermuffin]

I’ll let everyone else handle the first and second objectives of the map, but last night was the first time I ever got to play the map all the way through (every other time had been fullholds at the data cores or just pushing the EV in general).

I really hated this section of the map, because I felt like I was a rat being pushed into specific pathways that you guys picked for us each ending in a specific “feature” of the map. The red area I highlighted below is really annoying to me, because it seems like all of the offense is bunched up here because everything leads around this one small area, while the defense has that high ground on the building and turrets can be placed to cover this area and hinder any forward progress that the offense tries to make.

I kept feeling like this green line would help to alleviate some problems. I always thought that there should be an entrance to the left of the lift that didn’t require going completely through that building, because right now everyone can see you coming because the building is so open to the defense. If there was a pathway over here, you’d be able to “sneak” in behind them and this would require them to cover it.

Part of the problem for me could always be that the defense seems to always have better positioning here and the offense has to really lemming to get a lot of high ground while the defense just spawns with the ability to get to it quicker and easier (at least it seems so to me).

I also have a question, do you guys have any of the old just blocked out versions of White Chapel? It might be interesting if we could see what changed or even play both versions back to back to see if the changes that were made helped alleviate problems or if they just created some elsewhere.

[FROST1]

Very cool Sock. Doesn’t this map layout lend itself to get a second passage from the attackers spawn, to the backside of the chapel? I think a good map should allways have at least one route to encompass the whole battle and to sneak up from behind. Otherwise you’ll allways get those head on, head on, choke point situations, wich can get quite annoying and frustrating. Also, it would force the defense to look behind them; something that they don’t need to do now.

Aquarium would be a good example of a map, rich with alternate passages. When the whole defense was on camping duty at the first choke point in the second stage of the map, you had still plenty ways to sneak up from behind and kill three guys, before they even knew from where they got shot at; because they where so fixated on objective raping the attackers. It might had taken you a bit of time to run the whole way around, but in the end you could really turn the tide sometimes.

[Anti]

I’ve put up a sticky thread with in-editor top-down views of all the maps here

This is nowhere near as good as a mini-map I’ll grant you, but as we’ve not locked down the final art style and design for those they might be some time coming, in the mean time I’m hoping these images will help.

[Senethro]

Damn, I had an idea but its useless now that I see where things are in relation to each other. I was thinking to cut the final delivery objective and just have the map end on the tank shooting. Also, have the tank elevator go faster. More emphasis would be given to the other delivery objective and the tank might have started further back. This would have been made to work through a new area with an extra spawn adjacent to Offense Spawn 1 and the Whitechapel building itself, but clearly there isn’t the room for it.

[Bananas]

I probably shouldn’t have used the word “scrap”. My apologies to the devs.

I’ll try to think of some better ideas/criticism for the map today.

[INF3RN0]

Top down view here I come MSPAINT!

[INF3RN0]

Also see this post for additional thoughts. http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33241-White-Chapel-Map-Discussion?p=409784&viewfull=1#post409784

*Make escort lift speed really go much faster when the lift speed objs are built.

[Bananas]

Alright. Here’s a few of my ideas to improve the map. Please excuse my poor MS Paint skills and my bad humor. Also incoming images.

Add stairs here for more attack routes. Also stops people from having the across the bridge battles so much.

Add a ramp that takes you to an alternate entrance into the chapel. Not sure where to put the entrance.

Allow us to officially use this building by adding a way up. What I mean by officially, is that you can already get on it through what I assume is unintended ways.

Going along with that building, you can actually jump from it to the rooftop console right now. If you could officially get on the building, this would be an interesting route to get to the rooftop console. It would also satisfy people who like to jump.

Too many images in this post. Continued in next post…

[Bananas]

Too many images in this post. Continued in next post…

Continued…

Add door/entrance here that comes out…

Here. This would allow more flanking by going into the room with the stairs, out the broken wall and be behind the rooftop console building. Would give the objective another route to take.

That’s all my screenshots.

My only other general idea is to change the lift objective to switches like Camden has. Once you activate all the switches, the lift would completely go down in about 4-5 seconds. I think switches would work better for the objective as long as they don’t reset as fast as they did in Camden. I never liked that the objective slowly completed, so this would force you to get all the objectives to move on.

Hopefully these posts are better than my original post.

[tokamak]

I’m still puzzled by what made the bank stage in Goldrush so incredibly fun and what made the heist in White Chapel so incredibly lousy.

The insides of White Chapel could use an overhaul, that wouldn’t be much asked would it? I’m not entirely sure how, I will get back to that. But all in all it’s a terrible place to fight in.