Well ive been reading these posts for a couple days now , im not quite sure how to star building my map is it better to go one building at a time or make the whole map with just blocks and then detail?
where to start?
D3C0Y
(D3C0Y)
#3
just build the size u feel is good
the key words are ‘testing’, ‘be original’,…
i myself build the buildings and terrain separete caus i use Easygen for teh terrain
freekill
(freekill)
#4
i dont understand how to use ezgen even after reading the help topics
unfortunatly my ground is flat as a board
Thej
(Thej)
#5
before u start working on a terrain u better first know how to make the rest of the map. Cause ur jumping from beginner now to experienced level in mapping
Shallow
(Shallow)
#6
Thej is right: Learn the basics before you try doing a terrain.
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Build a lot of small test maps before you contemplate building a proper map. If you start building your grand scheme right now you won’t do as good a job as you would if you wait a while.
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Find tutorials and work through them.
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Practice and practice and practice with the editor until you feel comfortable with it, and the keyboard shortcuts become second nature.
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Adopt, adapt and improve.
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Persist! You will get there in the end, but it will often feel like an uphill struggle.
It’s worth reading the Radiant manual, and check out the tutorials linked to from the sticky threads. Good luck with your mapping!
DeAtHmAsTeR
(DeAtHmAsTeR)
#7
ye - if in doubt - ask someone - i started mapping on the 16th of july and i had never done mapping before, and in a fortnight i am having my first beta test of my full map 
bsimser
(bsimser)
#8
There are many tutorials about how to get mapping so first thing is to study them, practice them and keep doing this over and over until some things become second nature (look at the READ ME FIRST sticky thread here for links to tutorial sites).
What the sites generally don’t tell you is how to build a large map. There are a few ways to go about this and it will take you some time before you become comfortable with a way you want to go about it. It’s not science, it’s art so whatever works for you.
There are a few “best practices” or basic principals you can adopt or try out. There are a couple of approaches to mapping that I’ll try to lay out here (anyone else’s techniques, feel free to jump in anytime).
Principals
A few things you can you always use, no matter what type of map your building, what editor you’re using, etc.
-DO Always save your work, renaming or using some kind of version control as you go. Don’t trust the autosave or saving your work at once. Losing 2 hours of work because your system or Radiant crashed is just plain wrong. Some developers rename their maps as they work (map1, map2, map3) just so they can go back to a previous version if needed.
-DON’T try to build the universe first time out. Even if you think you’re ready for building a giant map, keep it simple until you get the basics down and know them well. You shouldn’t be spending hours searching the forums or internet on how to group brushes when you have a map you’ve spent days on. Get the basics down and know them like the back of your hand. Not only will you be more productive, but you’ll know the best way to do certain things so when you come to them you’re not scratching in the dirt.
-DO always keep pieces separate. If you have an extremely complicated building with gobs of detail inside you might want to build it in a separate map file and load it as a prefab, positioning it into it’s final resting spot for your final map. This way you don’t run the risk of screwing up some other brushes on your main map while you adjust a pipe on the 3rd floor of a refinery. Work in modular pieces and bring it all together into one file for compiling and tweaking (like overall lighting, etc.)
-DO always have a plan. Sitting down with a blank map and saying “I’m going to build a map” will almost always result in a bunch of disparate rooms connected through some god-awful-ugly hallway and everyone will think you were on crack when you built the map. Plan plan plan then do some more planning. Spontaneous creativity is great and encouraged, but try to have an overall plan.
-DON’T add features for features sake. Just because you read a new tutorial on how to add blowing leaves to your map don’t run out and add them just because they’re cool. This is a software development concept but works for mapping. Use what’s best for your environment, setting, etc. Keep with the theme or overall plan for your map and don’t add the latest craze just because it looks good.
-DO be flexible in adjusting your plan. Nothing is set in stone but you should have an idea for your map. If you plan to build a giant bunker on an island, have some idea on how big it will be and block something out. You might find you’re idea was bigger than your implementation or vice-versa, so be flexible to adjust it as you find a need. Don’t feel that you’re tied into a 20,000x20,000 map just because you said you would build it. You might end up with everlasting fields of nothingness.
-DO test test test. As often as you can and then some. You’ll never know when you fire up the game with your map and find out some wierd error that will take you hours to debug. Baby steps. If you just completed a complicated build-construct-destroy set of entities then test them out to make sure they work. Also don’t spend days on a constructable door, scribing out detail after detail only to find some basic problem with it that means you’re going to have to rebuild it again. Use a blocky approach of just getting the shapes there and the script work done first then worry about detailing.
Approaches to Map Building
As I said there are a few ways to do this. It’s up to you to find whatever works for you best. There is no “right” way, but there are things that will cause pain and suffering down the road. These are basically my own terminology, there might be something more generally acceptable but whatever works for you.
The Block Approach
Start by figuring out how big your map is going to be (see the last note in the best practices section) and block out that area. You know, the big empty room everyone builds first. Then just block out major areas and chisel your way down to detail. Don’t try to build an intricate bunker if you haven’t got a clue how the surrounding terrain is going to look like. As you walk through your map in testing, you might find it too much of a walk between the bunker and the ammo post so adjust where necessary, scale up or down as needed. Eventually you’ll bring it down to a fine point where you’re just doing touch-ups and you don’t have a 12-hour mapping job ahead of you to build the axis base because you haven’t even started it.
The Floorplan Approach
Sketch out your idea on a piece of paper or use a CAD program or whatever and import it as a texture onto a big flat brush (your temporary floor). Then block out walls, tables, doors, whatever and once everything is in place you can replace the floor plan with a floor texture. Works great if you’re trying to reproduce an accurate building or something (thanks to sock for suggesting this).
The fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants Approach
Some people do this so you might find it useful. With a bit of a plan (or at the very least an idea of what you want) just dive in and start building. After awhile you’ll see something emerge. I don’t subscribe that you can get a nice balanced map from this approach, but some find it useful. Your mileage may vary.
There are pretty much two construction techniques that I’ve found you can follow. Either work fine so it’s up to you which one (or both) to employ:
Hollow Room Building
You can create rooms, hollow them out and move onto the next room. Personally I find this produces a lot of extra walls (where two rooms touch) that you just end up deleting. Another problem with this approach is that the rooms walls need to be adjusted so you don’t get zbuffer problems where they overlap and corners should be mitred.
Wall Building
This technique just lets you build raw walls, hollowing out doorways where needed. It might take longer but I find it produces less brushes and gets things up and running faster. If you don’t have a good plan and just build by the seat of your pants, you’ll find that you’ll be doing a lot of cleanup with this technique but it works well for floorplan approach building.
In the end, your choice. Try things out in small maps of a few rooms (less than a dozen) and see what works. Mix and match and above all, have fun!
Loffy
(Loffy)
#10
Well written bsimser. I enjoyed reading it. i think I must try the “make part, save as prefab” tip. I never thought about that (yes, im a beginner).
If i understand you correct, you can work with terrain in one map-file, make nice buildings in another, and some other stuff in a third. Then you save stuff in map two and three as prefabs (Edit>Save selection as prefab). Then fire up map three, with the terrain, and import all the cool buildings and stuff into that map. To make map three the final map.
In principle. Lots of hard moments there… like, how to get stuff into terrain. But thats another story.
Loffy (who’s going to try make caves and stuff soon.)
bsimser
(bsimser)
#11
The modular approach is just a thing with me. Some people (maybe most) just work in one .map file and save and version on a regular basis.
Coming from software develop I’ve learned it’s useful to build in small pieces and assemble up to the grand plan. With mapping this works out well. I wouldn’t take it to a level where you have 20 or 30 map files for one big map. You’ll be spending a year just assembling things together.
One of the maps I’m building is a stalag POW camp. Currently I have:
-1 map prefab of empty barracks
-6 map prefabs of various room configurations
-4 map prefabs of various bunk configurations
-1 map with misc grouped items (tables, stoves, etc.)
Everything has been textured, scaled, etc. to my liking. For the main map:
- Build texture and get overall environment and lighting worked out
- Import barrack prefabs and place where needed
- Import room prefabs, mix and match to get the illusion that every room is different
- Import bunk prefabs into rooms, again to give the illusion that everything is different
- Import detail prefabs
- Touch up, light, etc.
If I decide I want to change the bunker structure, because the entire bunker is grouped when it’s imported I can go back to the original model and alter it then reimport without losing any of my detail work.
Like I said, whatever works for you. Some would say that the level of organization involved here is pretty anal. You be the judge.