Where is DB going?


(Eox) #21

@6429F1740165 said:
Shame really…

SD of old made great games, W:ET & ET:QW (sadly QW’s was plagued by the iDTech4 engine) then came Brink, which I thought was really bad but when I compare it to DB it’s a masterpiece.

R.I.P. SD… long live Leyou???

Leyou has nothing to do with SD’s developpement. If anything it’s probably thank to them that SD managed to buy DB back from Nexon in 2016-2017. The current state of DB is mostly due to the current update drought and player retention issues. Not because of a chicken company.


(Begin2018) #22

@Eox said:
[…] The current state of DB is mostly due to the current update drought and player retention issues. Not because of a chicken company.

Personally I uninstalled the game yesterday at level 91 because of the current state of the game and the development direction. They are pushing CMM while we need server browser enhancements and min level servers. Hardcore gamers already quit the game some years ago because of bad development, only 12yo players remaining. There is player retention issue because it’s a bad game. RIP Dirtybomb, it isn’t the old school FPS as expected.


(Zalamael) #23

@Lord_Coctus said:
It’s not the 50th CoD or Tf2 rip off.

Which is another way of saying, low skill button mashers don’t get rewarded, for low skill button mashing :slight_smile:


(Loki.) #24

@Eox said:

@6429F1740165 said:
Shame really…

SD of old made great games, W:ET & ET:QW (sadly QW’s was plagued by the iDTech4 engine) then came Brink, which I thought was really bad but when I compare it to DB it’s a masterpiece.

R.I.P. SD… long live Leyou???

Leyou has nothing to do with SD’s developpement. If anything it’s probably thank to them that SD managed to buy DB back from Nexon in 2016-2017. The current state of DB is mostly due to the current update drought and player retention issues. Not because of a chicken company.

You missed the point entirely… As i stated, SD of old made great games… This is not SD!
this is a shell of what SD was 8-10 yrs ago… Once Westwood sold SD, SD died…

Need proof?

Where is the community? where are clan servers? where are clan lead tournaments? and so on
These were staples with SD games… (i.e. W:ET and ET:QW)… there is reason why far more people play W:ET today then DB… --> Community!

What does DB offer? ‘Match Making’… a handful of SW servers??

This new ‘SD’ makes it difficult to play with friends, clan mates, or make new online friends with DB…

This is not me bashing DB, rather venting… I really enjoyed their old games, had high hopes for DB… hell I even paid good money to SD, became a member of the Founder’s Club back 2013…

O well…


(doxjq) #25

@Meerkats said:
Can we stop making excuses and admit, for a lot of players who came seeking a skill-based FPS experience, Dirty Bomb is becoming less fun?

Let me tell you about an actual match I had. The other team had a PDP Vassili, a PDP Redeye, a Grandeur Aimee, a Phantom, a Thunder and a Javelin. That entire match I was debilitated, detected or dead. If I hugged a corner to avoid snipers, the @$!# Phantom would be there, invis and waiting. If I somehow got into a position where I could do damage, I’d immediately get smacked by a conq or get denied by a smoke screen. This entire time, I’d be getting chunked by continual semi-auto sniper fire. How is that fun for anybody? Why is the game in this state? I don’t even want to think about how tilted I would’ve gotten if they had a Turtle as well, cause goddamn, I wanted to beat those assholes so hard.

DB is having an identity crisis, in great part resulting from lack of direction and SD’s general ineptness.

Remember, DB was initially advertised as a skill-based FPS game with fast gameplay. Yet somehow, Thunder, Guardian and Turtle all got released. All of these mercs have powerful yet incredibly easy / zero skill abilities that slow down the game’s pace, sometimes via frustrating, MOBA-like, hard counter mechanics. So if DB is becoming less skill-based and less fast while adding MOBA-like gameplay aspects, then what is DB?

Look at the design of some of the latest mercs. Why do we need a merc using a crossbow in a near future FPS about guns? He thematically doesn’t fit, but hey, I guess attracting Hanzo memetards is worth sacrificing some integrity for. Consider his kit: a ranged EMP. Why do we even need EMP abilities? Cause we actually kinda do cause there’s like a million, increasingly powerful deployables up at any given time during any match, a problem that prior didn’t exist meaning EMP is a band-aid solution to a problem that should never have existed in the first place.

Then there’s Turtle and his stupidly durable, anti-fun, one-way shield. You know what? I’m not even going to move past Turtle cause at this point, everybody should already just be slack jawed in horror and any additional trauma would be inhumane.

I don’t intend on playing competitive cause, well, lots of practical reasons. That said, I would much rather decisions affecting gameplay be made based off feedback of the best players, not regular players for the obvious reason that the best players, being actually good at the game, will have better insight. A well balanced game ( while maintaining context that DB is a squad-based game with designated roles ) is the most fun game. A game where players are given stupidly overpowered kit simply cause it’s cool or “fun” ( for the person using it, e.g. shotguns ) in order to appeal to garden variety scrubs is not. Good balance isn’t a democratic process; not everybody’s feedback should be taken into consideration with equal weight because mediocre players, barring exceptional insight, will only instruct you on creating a mediocre game.

To OP: In summary, it’s pretty hard getting anywhere when the people behind the steering wheel are drunk / busy circling the drain.

Kicker: I actually like Guardian a lot. Still think Skyshield is dumb / bad solution to problem of explosives spam.

Amen brother. +1.


(Melinder) #26

@Begin2018 said:
we need server browser enhancements.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this matter, because one of the more common mindsets destroying DB has to do with the Server Browser being the main focus.


(Chris Mullins) #27

From a development side of things Server Browser isn’t supposed to be a main way to play the game. We don’t plan to support it with extra features as this will pull more players away from CMM which will degrade the overall experience, but where possible we’ll make little tweaks to improve it (such as changing when teams get shuffled which we asked you all about).

Now, in regards to the main topic of the thread.

We know the numbers. And we’re not concerned. This is our expectation as we’re working on a lot of currently non-player facing features at the moment. It’s kind of similar to the Summer Squash and Mofo updates. Not a lot of flashy in-your-face things are coming out so it’s a little boring. But stuff is coming!

A big issue which we’re working to address is new user experience and progression to improve retention. Our retention isn’t great, but it’s not something which you can fix with a few little things here and there. And it’s not just one feature we’re planning on adding or improving to fix it.

A lot of the things raised here are actively being worked on and I would love to tell you what we’re doing for it all, but as things are still in a state of flux, we don’t have 100% confirmed info for you. Once we’re a little more locked down, we will tell you. I know what you’ll say though. You want to be told anyway. But like we’ve said before, we want to make sure info we release is as accurate as possible.

With 1.0 there will be a lot of marketing going out which will pull in a lot of players. This combined with better retention and features in the game should sort out everything you’re concerned about. And we’re not too far off which is great! DB will look a lot different when these features are added.

This is a time to be excited for what’s to come!! Not to look at where we are and feel like the sky falling.

tl;dr A lot is happening to fix the issues raised here. We know the numbers and are not concerned. 1.0 is gonna be awesome!


(TheStrangerous) #28

CMM would be perfect if the wait times weren’t so atrocious…


(Sytry) #29

No new maps, broken matchmaking in ranked and casual, only a few months a new merc sound awfull to stay in game for new players. DB failed to follow the hype when you got a lot of players keep updating the game no bugs, special event with free rewards, should sell merchandise to hardcore db players to keep them playing and follow db. Instead they stuck at db and they think will keep going like because is not like cs:go, tf2, pubg, star wars, cod. CS:GO, TF2, CoD selling merchandise to players who like the game and collect stuffs. I see DB become dying game like “heroes and generals” in 2015. DB died in 2021 if they don’t change radicaly with better solution.


(Mc1412013) #30

Holy shit did @stayfreshshoe post on a sarurday outside business hours???


(B_Montiel) #31

@stayfreshshoe said:
A big issue which we’re working to address is new user experience and progression to improve retention. Our retention isn’t great, but it’s not something which you can fix with a few little things here and there. And it’s not just one feature we’re planning on adding or improving to fix it.

Like making sure that they won’t get harvested level 100ish on public servers by giving those somewhere to go outside pugs and ranked ? It’s been asked since the removal of min level 10/20 servers. The removal of those put the public experience into the shitter for both sides of the community.

And yes, as long as a server browser remains, it will be the main way to play for most players, especially in an objective based game. And its further worse with a CMM locked to one side only, which is intrinsically source of natural unbalance.


(Ptiloui) #32

@stayfreshshoe said:
From a development side of things Server Browser isn’t supposed to be a main way to play the game. We don’t plan to support it with extra features as this will pull more players away from CMM which will degrade the overall experience, but where possible we’ll make little tweaks to improve it (such as changing when teams get shuffled which we asked you all about).

If you’re not concerned by players number, why don’t you CHOOSE once for all ? We agree that for the CMM to work as its best, the more players it needs. So, get away with browser servers and make the CMM the only available tool to play. Sure, many players will left because of that, but at least, everyone who really want to play Dirty Bomb will do through the CMM. This way, it will have a bigger pool of players and balance will be better (at least, it should). But keeping both worlds is just ensuring that CMM will never work as intended.


(Begin2018) #33

@stayfreshshoe said:
A big issue which we’re working to address is new user experience and progression to improve retention. Our retention isn’t great, but it’s not something which you can fix with a few little things here and there. And it’s not just one feature we’re planning on adding or improving to fix it.

Player retention isn’t only an issue with new user. I’m not a new player and uninstalled the game 2 days ago anyway. You can’t force people do go in CMM if they don’t want, they always have the choice to stop to play. I tried CMM (and Ranked S4) about 2 months, it’s just trash. 6v6 isn’t fun, I prefer 7v7 and 8v8. And I’m upset to be mixed with people who never played the game. At least in Server Browser we can kick them, and stay on the server with high level to play multiple match. Min level servers would improve this a lot. Just recycle 7 or 8 SW servers to min level 30 Objective.

@stayfreshshoe said:
This is a time to be excited for what’s to come!! Not to look at where we are and feel like the sky falling.
Sorry but I’m not excited anymore by a game with no more fun. Playing became a pain in the ass. 90% of match are boring, annoying, full of people who never played or play as Team Death Match. Why should I be excited while every update fix no issue but destroy the game a bit more?

@stayfreshshoe said:
DB will look a lot different when these features are added.
What’s the point to do an open beta if the 1.0 game is totally different ??!

@stayfreshshoe said:
From a development side of things Server Browser isn’t supposed to be a main way to play the game.
That’s a big mistake because there is demand for it. But you don’t care about demand, you just don’t listen to your customers. You don’t care about people who play the game since 2 years or more. Hardcore gamers quit the game and they won’t come back for 1.0.

@Ptiloui said:
So, get away with browser servers and make the CMM the only available tool to play. Sure, many players will left because of that, but at least, everyone who really want to play Dirty Bomb will do through the CMM.
Are you mad??! Removing the only way to play the game in acceptable condition??! Lol.


(K1X455) #34

It’s kinda conflicting to hear that you “_know the numbers. And we’re not concerned. _” and at the same time “working to address is new user experience and progression to improve retention”. Something’s not right here. What’s driving you to make user experience and progression improve if you don’t care at all? Whatever happened to player reports? How about the data you’re getting from telemetry?

The problem with CMM is basically Casual Match Making. Players don’t have to commit to the objective, cause basically, they don’t have any incentive to do so. If they get the slight sense that they’ve been matched unfairly, then they’ll just leave (Go skrew the message about getting penalty for leaving CMM). Plain and simple. Where’s the balance there now? Now consider someone backfilling the abandoned match in the last 30 seconds. It’s great if the side with less players is winning, but if they’ve been losing in the past 3 minutes because it’s 4v6, what kind of player experience is SD promoting there?

I once subscribed to the idea that SD can make sound decisions based on data telemetry, player reports and developer intuition, but it just seems that those three things are contributing to throwing off the game and consequently, throwing off the players. The problem with the data you’re getting is, it’s not transparent. The problem with player reports is, it’s not collated and only you get the frequency of reports as much as the telemetry data is. The problem with your intuition as a developer is, it’s as mind boggling as “Fragger’s Nerf” (where did that come from?). If you’re trying to hit a sweet spot of player choice diversity, it won’t help if you keep putting down a popular choice among players and ignore others within the same category, or even from another class that is already there.

If you’re trying to address progression, you’ll need to give new players a solid foundation to base their skill on. A better tutorial on game mechanics, use of abilities, and the more important but often understated team composition for cohesive team play is a better approach to getting player experience advance in a more progressive manner. Changing weapon performance or effects on abilities will only confuse them and find out that the skill they have acquired is now deprecated.


(K1X455) #35

here’s an old video about what used to be what I thought was a positive direction.


(Teflon Love) #36

@K1X455 said:
here’s an old video about what used to be what I thought was a positive direction.

Which part? When the Rhino plants the C4 in the middle of the carriage where no one can defend it or when the Aura slowly puts down her health station and fumbles for her defibs for more than a second before she finally revives the red eye? :smiley:


(Begin2018) #37

@K1X455 : Exactly, that’s what I was looking for in this game too.
But it isn’t the case in Ranked. It isn’t the case in CMM. And we have to try to do it our-self in SB, trying to find high level players and kicking all noobs… Boring. And when we talk about this, the answer is “blabla CMM, blabla 1.0, blabla Marketing”. And nothing happen, the game is just going worse and worse… Because they never listen their HC players :


What did they do to keep players as her?? Absolutely nothing! Then sorry @stayfreshshoe, your game became so boring and you are so blind (maybe not you, but devs) that I don’t care about your 1.0 marketing. I’m not even sure the EV collision bug will be fixed in it lol. Dead game.

@teflonlove : ^^


(Xenithos) #38

@TheStrangerous said:
CMM would be perfect if the wait times weren’t so atrocious…

Ranked would be perfect if the wait times weren’t so atrocious and we had more players in the pool… wait… either one of those is fixed by the other. :confused:


(Begin2018) #39

Depend, more players level 1 won’t help (even if they level up faster because of XP changes lol).
Anyway, game issues never come from players, they come from devs, ALWAYS.


(Xenithos) #40

As far as I knew, Dirty Bomb was never promised as an old school shooter, Lawbreakers was promised as a shooter going back to the roots. What Dirty Bomb WAS promised as was a game that required and had a high skill ceiling, a game that had more emphasis on gun-play and personal player skill than the abilities themselves. It also helps that Splash Damage were the creators of Brink and ET:QW, which is why the movement set would more easily apply to so many. That’s why many of the abilities are also skill-based as well. Something as simple as a heartbeat sensor has a huge difference in skill in just throwing it somewhere the enemy can’t destroy it, while still being useful and scanning enough enemies to make a difference for your team’s awareness.

As long as they keep this approach, the game is fun, and I sadly will admit alongside meerkats that certain things that have been added lately do take away some of the level of personal skill and gunplay. But I would also say they’d been doing this along time ago. If you remember when Nader, Phantom, and Redeye came out (roughly between those 3 months) the game was full of Burst rifle mayhem and these new mercs were coming out with many spammy abilities. It’s not just a recent thing. And as long as skill is involved with the abilities, then the abilities will become less meaningful.

That’s why cooldowns exist, why you can’t just spam every ability, why medics are so awesome in DB, because their skill is rarely just for personal gain, why hip-fire is so short, etc.

Their game was meant to be a competitive game where you can make friends. I’m still making friends, and as long as there isn’t crazy merc stacking (2 stokers or guardians, etc) or player stacking (6 level 50+ versus 4 level 1-9s) on either side the game is still tons of fun, regardless of what mercs are being played. That’s what I bought into, and it’s still being delivered on for the most part. There are improvements to be made for sure, but I believe that Splash Damage will get to them.

TL:DR - Did ya’ll forget Proxy’s been in this game since alpha?