What's the point of Homing Beacon?

(Humate) #41

Is English your second language tokamak?

(riptide) #42

[QUOTE=tokamak;330599]Oh wait I read the other way around. The homing beacon replaces voice communication. Even if that were true (as if a combination of both wouldn’t be better), that’s still a bogus argument. Voice communication is only added for convenience. One could make the same argument for removing voice chat as it removes the need for fast typing.

They utterly forget that it’s an ability, with a cost. You basically gimp the covert’s combat effectiveness to make him a better scout. Denying teams that actually consider that worth it (and I doubt it will be many, just look at the friggin thread title for that matter) an interesting strategy.[/QUOTE]

Voice comms has been used in every competitive game in my experience since Roger Wilco. I’m sure it was used before too. As for the voice comms vs homing beacon, there is a big difference between being told an enemy was spotted around the corner and his actual silhouette that lets you line up a headshot(that will not hit where you aim lol) while he is going to crouch peek.

What’s the cost of the ability… in ESL rules you are given all allowed abilities regardless of your level. The only time people will be operatives are for the hack objectives unless they rework some of the abilities they bring to the table. (though caltrops are amazing and completely underrated) That means currently their role is not a scout and they don’t bring enough to the table to be a scout.

(Jess Alon) #43

He was responding to the post before him saying it’s really hard to use homing beacon on people while actually shooting at them. Which it’s not really.

(Smokeskin) #44

That’s just silly, you don’t use ops on defense.

(iezza) #45

They have got good area denial abilities.

(Smokeskin) #46

In many other games I have played, especially RTS games, I have enjoyed myself watching replays of “pros”. I would like that to be an option in Brink.

Unfortunately, the “pro” Brink scene seem to think they should play a game that isn’t Brink, just looks like it, so it seems I’m not going to be watching competitive games because Brink is what I play and care about. I think is a shame there won’t be a comp scene I can follow.

If there are many people like me, it will severely limit the viewers, and that will limit the prizes, and the comp scene will suffer from it. Little money and few viewers, why not try another game?

It just seems like an all around bad decision.

(weeschwee) #47

why would you ban something because it isn’t seen as useful though? ban things because they are unfair or unbalanced, but why if they aren’t useful? it seems that if someone would want to use a worthless skill, that gives the other team an advantage. but not an unfair advantage because it is ultimately that person’s choice to bring that skill.

another thing i’ve been wondering about, why are command post buffs banned? i watched brink tv’s first tournament and heard numerous times that the maps are too defensively biased. has anyone noticed that the offense has better access to the comm posts? that tournament ended in stand stills almost every time two skilled teams went against each other. i can’t help but think the comm post buffs are necessary to the balance of maps. i am just curious what the thought was behind this. to me controlling comm posts is a legit strategy. why does the competitive community think otherwise? or has that rule been abandoned since then?

(Smokeskin) #48

The comp community is all about rewarding individual skill. Someone winning a 1v1 because his team captured a CP goes against that, so it is banned. Losing a fight because someone marked you with Homing Beacon goes against that, so it is banned. Etc.

These people see the 1v1 firefight as the epitome of skill, and anything that messes with that is frowned upon.

Of course, that mentality is directly opposed to Brink’s, but there you go.

(Humate) #49

[QUOTE=weeschwee;330736]why would you ban something because it isn’t seen as useful though? ban things because they are unfair or unbalanced, but why if they aren’t useful? it seems that if someone would want to use a worthless skill, that gives the other team an advantage. but not an unfair advantage because it is ultimately that person’s choice to bring that skill.

another thing i’ve been wondering about, why are command post buffs banned? i watched brink tv’s first tournament and heard numerous times that the maps are too defensively biased. has anyone noticed that the offense has better access to the comm posts? that tournament ended in stand stills almost every time two skilled teams went against each other. i can’t help but think the comm post buffs are necessary to the balance of maps. i am just curious what the thought was behind this. to me controlling comm posts is a legit strategy. why does the competitive community think otherwise? or has that rule been abandoned since then?[/QUOTE]

Some things are denied, based on core values and how they change the dynamic of teamplay.
Other things, are based on the actual mode itself - stopwatch.

As far as CPs go - they actually favour the attacking team, as the frontline moves up. So you’re spot on there.

(Coolaguy) #50

[QUOTE=Exedore;330361]I know, and that’s along with half of the other Operative abilities. Care to comment on why it gets the banhammer? It’s the only hard counter to disguising other than killing the disguised Operative, and there are some balance options available to us… if that’s the issue.[/QUOTE]Great question, Exedore…

Let’s see what Humate’s response is…

[QUOTE=Humate;330468]Comms Hack & the Homing Beacon - these abilities basically remove the need for good voice comms, and in instances where its heavily relied upon, good battlesense.

EMP - Most maps are perceived to be defensively biased. EMP ensures its an even more defensive game than it already is. Considering that the goal of stopwatch is to see who can complete the map in the fastest time, its not a desirable ability ATM.

As for Homing Beacon being a direct counter to disguises - just my opinion, but I personally would have liked to have the two factions sound completely different when they moved. This is how you tell if someone is in disguise in ETQW.[/QUOTE]Hmm… interesting.

Humate, allow me to retort. Please see my response in another thread.

(Surkov E Jaeger) #51

[QUOTE=dommafia;330585]Stop with your anti comp mentality… I’m still baffled as to how having a COMP mode/rules/restrictions (or whatever you want to call it) affects you in anyway. It is not going to be part of pub, and you don’t play comp… so yeah, I’m baffled.

ETQW and ET had some really good COMP streams/shoutcasts that were a ton of fun to watch. Forgive us for not being all about easily forgettable pub play. And I have nothing against pub play since I play myself mostly pub now, but why do pubbers take jabs at comp ? lol.

Just like all the whining on these boards from a loud minority, which you know to ignore. But you seem to only listen to the few idiot comp players that want a total conversion of the game. Most sane comp players, yes most, dont want such extremes at all.[/QUOTE]

Can’t speak for anyone else but I seem to have had an endless barrage of bad experiences with comp players. A good portion (but not all of) them that I have met have been complete elitist pricks of the worst kind to me and I hate the guts of every damn one of those people for it.

The issue? Well the issue is well when they seep into pub games and ruin my mood leaving me wanting to brutally beat someone to death. They bring their ******* attitudes and anti-this skill or anti-that skill rules and regs and try to impose them.

If anyone here is a comp player and not like that, then good don’t become like that. I mean no offense to comp players as a whole, I’m just stating my experience.

(jazevec) #52

[QUOTE=Smokeskin;330732]In many other games I have played, especially RTS games, I have enjoyed myself watching replays of “pros”. I would like that to be an option in Brink.

Unfortunately, the “pro” Brink scene seem to think they should play a game that isn’t Brink, just looks like it, [/QUOTE]

Very well put together ! Competition players are a very whiny and conservative bunch. Rules they invent make them live in a ghetto. Clan players are recruited from pub players. Therefore clans benefit from pubs, but many clanners treat pubs like ****. But it’s hard to make the opposite point - that pubs benefit from clans. Sometimes a clan pub server offers higher standards of play, but this happens even without clans and you’re equally likely to run into ego admins. Ego admins happen more often among clanners as competitive players have huge egos.
(Homing Beacon’s wallhack ability 1) isn’t overpowered because it has costs 2) isn’t redundant because it SHOWS exact position of an enemy. Comms Hack has a pretty big cost too (reach a still breathing enemy and spend time interrogating).

Does Homing Beacon work through glass walls ? It should.

Can you use Homing Beacon while incapacitated ? That would make it a lot more useful !

(Oschino1907) #53

[QUOTE=Surkov E Jaeger;330758]Can’t speak for anyone else but I seem to have had an endless barrage of bad experiences with comp players. A good portion (but not all of) them that I have met have been complete elitist pricks of the worst kind to me and I hate the guts of every damn one of those people for it.

The issue? Well the issue is well when they seep into pub games and ruin my mood leaving me wanting to brutally beat someone to death. They bring their ******* attitudes and anti-this skill or anti-that skill rules and regs and try to impose them.

If anyone here is a comp player and not like that, then good don’t become like that. I mean no offense to comp players as a whole, I’m just stating my experience.[/QUOTE]

Have had very similar experiances and why I have never had an urge to ever join a clan or attempt to play in rooms with people like that. Last night had one of those kinds of matches, apparently I was only on the game to do the “leaders” bidding and what class/body type i had didnt matter, all that mattered was they had a flunkie to do the work none of them wanted to do. They tried to kick everyone who wasnt doing what they were ordering them to do along with goin ape **** and talking down to everyone who had a different idea or gameplan. Havent been so pissed at others in a game for a very very very long time.

(Smokeskin) #54

I played comp over a decade ago. Plenty of nice people, plenty of dicks. Sort of like any other group of people. Can’t imagine it is any different today.

(jazevec) #55

With one difference - it’s a smaller group of people. So you’re either stuck with the same group of dicks, or stuck with a small group of other people (and meeting the same, even okay, people over and over is not good in long run. Familiarity breeds contempt.)

Smokeskin::
Here’s a good defensive Operative build: Comms Hack, Control Turret, Caltrops. Can be better than a soldier, especially if there’s already one handing out ammo. You could even take heavy with EZ-nade or Hjammerdeim.

(radiogenicsky) #56

i have a gun with low recoil so when i aim to shoot them it acts as a passive ability giving me extra points.:riflenade:

(iezza) #57

What gun? with my dual bulpdauns its hard.

(Spliff Bwoy UKGarage) #58

you just don’t know how to use an ops on defense. :smiley:

(RadBrad31) #59

Another advantage of homing beacon that I haven’t seen pointed out is that you can see the silhouette if you’re blinded by a flashbang. And so can your teammates. So even if you’re blinded, you can still somewhat defend yourself if the enemy is a red outline on your screen.

Personally, I don’t see a reason to ban it. In the operative’s current state, anything that allows him to be anyway helpful to his teammates are welcome. I’ve been leveling one up (currently lvl 14, got a lvl 20 soldier already) and it was slow/miserable til I picked up caltrops and hack turret. Now I feel a lot more useful than I was before.

Homing Beacon is currently underwhelming imo, but not completely useless.

(Tetra) #60

Competitive restrictions have gone overboard. I think though that if the game didn’t have absolutely ridiculous, atrocious balance issues to begin with, they wouldn’t have gone on a restriction-spree.

Competitive restrictions are like Pringles. Once you pop, you just can’t stop.