what will it be over powered if proxy allowed to use SMG-9?

(GatoCommodore) #1

will proxy be super powerful if she was left to use the SMG-9?

i think instead of having the usual loadout, she can use the smg-9 or the Crotzni in 3rd Gen Cards
wouldnt that be cool?

(MisterBadmin) #2

Depends on your perspective, and which weapon gets replaced. (I’m assuming one gets replaced to maintain symmetry of design. Three primaries, secondaries and melees means there can be 9 cards with no primary-secondary, primary-melee or secondary-melee combination repeated. [Yes, I know Phantom and Phoenix throw this out the window. I’m ignoring them because edge cases.] Adding a weapon would mean adding a secondary and melee to maintain the no-repeated-combination thing, and that’s too many variables to assess in a reasonable manner.) I assumed its a generic SMG, just so I don’t have my opinions on SMGs influencing my assessment. I’m also assuming there are no lukewarm opinions among players in a category, other than those not affected by it. I’m also assuming no other changes to Proxy’s current state.

Typical Pub Proxy Perspective (aka shotgun skrub):
Shotgun replaced:
(50-n)% complaining about whatever shotgun got replaced.
n% shifting to the other primaries.
Assume n to be a small value. Most Proxies prefer their shotguns.

Hochfir replaced:
0% complaining.
The typical shotgun skrub is only annoyed with crafting SMG cards.

Atypical Pub Proxy Perspective (aka Hochfir player):
Shotgun replaced:
0% complaining.
The typical Hochfir Proxy is only annoyed with crafting Shotgun cards. Many would shift from Hochfir to the new SMG. Some would stay loyal to the Aimpunch Cannon.

Hochfir replaced:
m% loyal to the Aimpunch Cannon riot.
(100-m)% rejoice, depending on the SMG it’s replaced with.
Many people really like the Hochfir, especially on fast mercs.

Competitive Proxy Perspective:
These don’t exist (in numbers large enough to matter). Giving Proxy another SMG probably would’t change that. She’s still 90HP, her pancakes are still easy to spot and now they can be used against her team. There still is no real reason to take Proxy over Fletcher as an Engi. If you want an Engi with SMGs that is competitively viable and not Fletcher, his name is Bushwhacker.

You really read all of that? Why? Okay, I don’t actually wanna know. One more paragraph, then get a cookie. You earned it.

Would a good Proxy with an SMG carry pubs? They already do with the Hochfir.
Would Proxy see any additional competitive play with another SMG? Probably not.
Is there any real reason to give her another? Not that I see. Proxy is inherently based around her small HP pool, which makes flanking the only real way to compete on offense. Reaction times in competitive are a lot better, so dealing with a 90 HP flank (that you can expect because you only see 4 enemies) is pretty easy.

(Dr_Plantboss) #3

Honestly I think that if this replaced the Hochfir she would be less powerful.

Have at it, SD!

(Eox) #4

Anyway, before giving to Proxy a competitive use, we should probably fix the features that frustrate people so much.

(GatoCommodore) #5

@MisterBadmin
kira have a 90HP but the difference is she has the Burst Rifles and the laser.

whats your take to make proxy more relevant if the only condition is not to change her ability?

(nokiII) #6

The difference between proxy and kira is, that kira doesn’t have to stand still at an predictable place to do her job.

(watsyurdeal) #7

Nah, I wouldn’t think so.

(MisterBadmin) #8

You don’t.

Not with Fletcher around.

Let’s do a quick thought experiment. If we make Proxy 110 HP and reduce her speed accordingly, we wind up with a Fletcher who can’t throw explosives offensively and has no way to detonate them safely. Of their primaries, the Hollunds is identical, the Ahnuhld has more range than the Remburg and the Blishlok does better at range than the Hochfir. There is no reason to take Proxy over Fletcher, even with that crazy of a buff.

Let’s take it a step up then. Rather than buff her health, let’s swap every primary. Let’s go with M4, BR16 and Dreiss. Now there’s some reason to take her, because her tier of weapons has increased. At this point, her stats are just a bit above Kira’s, and weapons are similar. But Fletcher still exists, and stickies are really good. Predicting who sees play even with that level of buff is nigh impossible, but I’d wager Proxy would still be ignored in favor of Fletcher as an Engi and literally anything else with rifles for offense.

(GatoCommodore) #9

You don’t.

Not with Fletcher around.

Let’s do a quick thought experiment. If we make Proxy 110 HP and reduce her speed accordingly, we wind up with a Fletcher who can’t throw explosives offensively and has no way to detonate them safely. Of their primaries, the Hollunds is identical, the Ahnuhld has more range than the Remburg and the Blishlok does better at range than the Hochfir. There is no reason to take Proxy over Fletcher, even with that crazy of a buff.

Let’s take it a step up then. Rather than buff her health, let’s swap every primary. Let’s go with M4, BR16 and Dreiss. Now there’s some reason to take her, because her tier of weapons has increased. At this point, her stats are just a bit above Kira’s, and weapons are similar. But Fletcher still exists, and stickies are really good. Predicting who sees play even with that level of buff is nigh impossible, but I’d wager Proxy would still be ignored in favor of Fletcher as an Engi and literally anything else with rifles for offense. [/quote]

(LifeupOmega) #10

No, the Hochfir is arguably miles ahead of the SMG-9 right now since its buff. Crotzni would be a true step up.

(JJMAJR) #11

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-219602”]http://i.imgur.com/jW4hlw1.png
[/quote]

Honestly though I’d like Proxy to be able to deal a lot of damage against vehicles and the like. But in order to make Proxy be able to deal enough damage to do so she would need the shotguns.

Meh. I think a weapon change would make her less frustrating for noobs while making her actually useful in competitive play. Grandeur, Hochfir, and Crotzni is what I’d vouch for, while giving Fletcher only shotguns and making his ability more of a crossbow-style thing so he could use machine pistols without being so weak that he needs to be good in offensive strategy.

So yeah, Proxy is a mistake.

(GatoCommodore) #12

[quote=“JJMAJR;c-219759”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219602”]http://i.imgur.com/jW4hlw1.png
[/quote]

Honestly though I’d like Proxy to be able to deal a lot of damage against vehicles and the like. But in order to make Proxy be able to deal enough damage to do so she would need the shotguns.

Meh. I think a weapon change would make her less frustrating for noobs while making her actually useful in competitive play. Grandeur, Hochfir, and Crotzni is what I’d vouch for, while giving Fletcher only shotguns and making his ability more of a crossbow-style thing so he could use machine pistols without being so weak that he needs to be good in offensive strategy.

So yeah, Proxy is a mistake.[/quote]

proxy loadout gen3:
Crotzni
Grandeur
Remburg 7 (for that thunder one hit kill)

this will make proxy great again

(Eox) #13

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-219762”][quote=“JJMAJR;c-219759”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219602”]http://i.imgur.com/jW4hlw1.png
[/quote]

Honestly though I’d like Proxy to be able to deal a lot of damage against vehicles and the like. But in order to make Proxy be able to deal enough damage to do so she would need the shotguns.

Meh. I think a weapon change would make her less frustrating for noobs while making her actually useful in competitive play. Grandeur, Hochfir, and Crotzni is what I’d vouch for, while giving Fletcher only shotguns and making his ability more of a crossbow-style thing so he could use machine pistols without being so weak that he needs to be good in offensive strategy.

So yeah, Proxy is a mistake.[/quote]

proxy loadout gen3:

Grandeur

[/quote]

That’s going way too far now.

(GatoCommodore) #14

[quote=“Eox;c-219797”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219762”][quote=“JJMAJR;c-219759”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219602”]http://i.imgur.com/jW4hlw1.png
[/quote]

Honestly though I’d like Proxy to be able to deal a lot of damage against vehicles and the like. But in order to make Proxy be able to deal enough damage to do so she would need the shotguns.

Meh. I think a weapon change would make her less frustrating for noobs while making her actually useful in competitive play. Grandeur, Hochfir, and Crotzni is what I’d vouch for, while giving Fletcher only shotguns and making his ability more of a crossbow-style thing so he could use machine pistols without being so weak that he needs to be good in offensive strategy.

So yeah, Proxy is a mistake.[/quote]

proxy loadout gen3:

Grandeur

[/quote]

That’s going way too far now.
[/quote]

i thought were gonna make proxy great?
maybe

proxy loadout gen3:
Crotzni
Dreiss
Remburg 7 (for that thunder one hit kill)

(JJMAJR) #15

[quote=“Eox;c-219797”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219762”][quote=“JJMAJR;c-219759”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-219602”]http://i.imgur.com/jW4hlw1.png
[/quote]

Honestly though I’d like Proxy to be able to deal a lot of damage against vehicles and the like. But in order to make Proxy be able to deal enough damage to do so she would need the shotguns.

Meh. I think a weapon change would make her less frustrating for noobs while making her actually useful in competitive play. Grandeur, Hochfir, and Crotzni is what I’d vouch for, while giving Fletcher only shotguns and making his ability more of a crossbow-style thing so he could use machine pistols without being so weak that he needs to be good in offensive strategy.

So yeah, Proxy is a mistake.[/quote]

proxy loadout gen3:

Grandeur

[/quote]

That’s going way too far now.
[/quote]

It’s Aimee without the camera and with objective specialist. It’s not really that good.