What the **** did you do to Nader?

(delete) #1

Why is her grenade launcher an ability with cooldown?

What lead to this being a design choice?

(FireWorks) #2

Experimenting with different possibilities? Beta you know :stuck_out_tongue:

Most likely to give her the opportunity to survive a 1v1 with her main weapon.

OHK nades were OP, 2HK take too long (and are relativly hard to pull off with 2 shots) so you are fragged by any reasonable opponent.

The only thing you need now, is a decent binding concept differing from the default quickfires. With 4(?) you can select the tool (grenade launcher) and fire it with Mouse1 like before.
So she has 3guns now and I dont think its too OP atm

(delete) #3

I’m pretty underwhelmed that she now has infinite ammo and no reload on her launcher, sure it has a cooldown to recharge up to 6 shots but they had either make it air burstable or increase the size of the blast, it’s a terrible weapon right now.

Also I’m still really not seeing the benefit of having her “special ability” be available only after death. Why not make it a 5 second prime usable at any time? So that you can actually be a martyr.

(DB Genome editor) #4

Personally I think she’s much more playable like that. As FireWorks said, with her previous incarnation on a straight 1 on 1 you either got a couple of lucky hits or died. Now you can hold your own in a firefight and still have a unique tactical role.

(FireWorks) #5

[QUOTE=prettzl;493533]I’m pretty underwhelmed that she now has infinite ammo and no reload on her launcher, sure it has a cooldown to recharge up to 6 shots but they had either make it air burstable or increase the size of the blast, it’s a terrible weapon right now.

Also I’m still really not seeing the benefit of having her “special ability” be available only after death. Why not make it a 5 second prime usable at any time? So that you can actually be a martyr.[/QUOTE]

Tbh you sound a bit bitchy here while I was under the impression that you are usually pretty capable of communicating your feedback in a very constructive way.

What you suggest are possible improvements that are not contradicting to the current implementations.
Airburstable? Sounds like Nades explode when releasing the firebutton? So, fire on +attack and detonate on -attack. That would be pretty powerful :smiley:
You could either spam a volley of uncontrolled by just clicking or a single controlled grenade. Cool **** with plenty of depth added to the gameplay. Would be a matter of tweaking the arming time… Maybe 0.4 secs?

Suicidebombers are no martyrs, but it gets too religious and political here. The name is just not fitting. I dont think that a suicide bomber would be adding to the gameplay in a positive way. You can troll people and thats it. Causing more frustration than fun.
C4-Husky: Much time and effort to take down one tank, ok and counterable. Panzer gibbin a spawn wave in Winghaven style, OP and very hard to counter.
I feel that that suicidebomb would be more in category 2

(Protekt1) #6

I think it works better as a cooldown. They’ll adjust its effectiveness and strength over time. This is a beta after all. They’ve also said it will take a few patches to get balance even remotely close with some upcoming changes. And most balancing will happen during open beta when there are more players.

(INF3RN0) #7

I’ve always wanted nader’s launcher to involve more options and user control. The devs had mentioned an alt fire mode for air bursting which I thought was a good idea. Basically the less streamlined they can make the overly simplistic/limited weapon types like nade launchers, rocket launchers, shotguns, etc the better. Rifles, pistols, and snipers all feel like they belong together and it just seems like other weapons like the mini-gun for example are there just to appease the masses. I’d like to see everything fit into the same picture.

(Anti) #8

Ultimately each character will have alternative weapons they can swap in for their default primary and secondary weapons, as well as attachments for those weapons that will act as side-grades.

Having characters like Sparks, Rhino and Nader have their ‘defining’ mechanic be a weapon that they can’t or wouldn’t want to swap out, or a weapon that can’t have some/all attachments, just ends up limiting those characters. By moving those weapons into ability slots we free up those characters to have the same range of choices in primaries, secondaries and attachments and all the other characters.

(DB Genome editor) #9

[QUOTE=Anti;493746]Ultimately each character will have alternative weapons they can swap in for their default primary and secondary weapons, as well as attachments for those weapons that will act as side-grades.

Having characters like Sparks, Rhino and Nader have their ‘defining’ mechanic be a weapon that they can’t or wouldn’t want to swap out, or a weapon that can’t have some/all attachments, just ends up limiting those characters. By moving those weapons into ability slots we free up those characters to have the same range of choices in primaries, secondaries and attachments and all the other characters.[/QUOTE]
So can we expect to see the same change to Rhino and Sparks as we saw for Nader (current primary bumped to ability)? Having a reasonable weapon to switch to while on the move could make Rhino a lot more friendly to play and enhance his “turret” nature when deploying the minigun.

(RasteRayzeR) #10

[QUOTE=prettzl;493533]I’m pretty underwhelmed that she now has infinite ammo and no reload on her launcher, sure it has a cooldown to recharge up to 6 shots but they had either make it air burstable or increase the size of the blast, it’s a terrible weapon right now.

Also I’m still really not seeing the benefit of having her “special ability” be available only after death. Why not make it a 5 second prime usable at any time? So that you can actually be a martyr.[/QUOTE]

The grenade launcher is actually working best with the pool of grenades and as an ability imo. Though I wish the pool was extended to 7 grenades and that there were a minimum distance the grenade should travel to be able to explode on direct hits (real grenade launchers require 6 meters of acceleration for the grenade to be able to explode on hit). Maybe not as much as 6 meters, but a little threshold still.

Martyrdom says it all in the name … plus it requires an extra skill to know just before you die to run on an objective or closer to foes, activate it and wait for it.

[QUOTE=Anti;493746]
By moving those weapons into ability slots we free up those characters to have the same range of choices in primaries, secondaries and attachments and all the other characters.[/QUOTE]

I was pleasantly surprised to see a rifle and a pistol on Nader it really helps feeling like a soldier with her, because if you rely only on the grenade launcher you need to be really skilled to get sprees or inflict precise damage.

(Glottis-3D) #11

I like nader. played a lot of her. Not sure about her spamming nature. Need 2 naders in a team to decide on that. But i think she is a little bit spammy. 7 nades would only make this worse, i think

(Anti) #12

Yep, it will happen to them too at some point

(Mustang) #13

Oh wow exciting news, I was looking forward to sparks weapon being a revive(/heal) method only and was a bit disappointed when it turned out to be her primary weapon, so definitely looking forward to this.

(Glottis-3D) #14

this and thus!

(delete) #15

Wait for what? To be gibbed?

Her special ability is one of the easiest to counter in the game, just gib from a distance or focus killing the medics who may come to rez her.

(RasteRayzeR) #16

[QUOTE=prettzl;493922]Wait for what? To be gibbed?

Her special ability is one of the easiest to counter in the game, just gib from a distance or focus killing the medics who may come to rez her.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree here: most of the time you enable your martyrdom before a medic could revive you. Plus in servers with friendly fire, nader is reallly hard to get used to (the guys from the last draft know what I’m talking about :smiley:

It’s only skill to be able to get kills with martyrdom now

(Toomic) #17

[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;493924]I have to disagree here: most of the time you enable your martyrdom before a medic could revive you. Plus in servers with friendly fire, nader is reallly hard to get used to (the guys from the last draft know what I’m talking about :smiley:

It’s only skill to be able to get kills with martyrdom now[/QUOTE]

I know what you’re talking about :slight_smile:

(RasteRayzeR) #18

Damn that friendly fire :smiley: (Though I’ve never been as efficient as this sad, involuntary time at killing with Nader’s martyrdom)

:penguin: