What s the advantage of models?

(]UBC[ McNite) #1

Well I m just curious about this.
I m in that stage of mapping where I have to start making rooms real (you know, tables, chairs, candles…). ET offers a variety of models for that, but I wonder what s the advantage of taking them.

Take the example of a torch with a torch holder: The holder can be made of 5 brushes, the torch will be 4-6 brushes. You need 4 textures (metal for holder, wood for stick, dark thing for the soaked fabric, and the flame). That s it.

So what I wonder about is: should I make a model of this or just stick to the brushwork? Is there an advantage to tris/gameperformance using models or not?

(zl1corvette) #2

I don’t think there would be any performance at all. I believe after the map goes through the compiler a triangle in a misc_model is the same as a triangle in a brush. I guess the real reason to model would be because some things would be hard to make in radiant, for example the truck.

(seven_dc) #3

Things why models are better:

  1. If you use multible times the model the map only needs one model file instead of multible instances compiled into bsp -> smaller filesize.
  2. models do not affect user collisions calculations. well you can accieve same effect with nonsolid shaders but why bother. So collision calculations comes simpler with simple clip brushing.

Using models with misc_model would be same as brushes in filesize, but you should use misc_gamemodels.

Homemade vaporgenie

(Oxygen - o2) #4

no, you use misc_gamemodels for things that DO stuff like tanks and trucks and motorbikes that move and animate, anything that just sits there you make misc_model

(Chruker) #5

Small soldier: I don’t think thats true. The difference between misc_gamemodels and misc_models are that the latter one is included into the bsp, while the first is loaded when the game loads.

However whether or not both of them are cached if there are more than one, I’m not sure.

(FireFly) #6

misc_models get ‘baked’ into the bsp, increasing the total filesize.
misc_gamemodels are loaded ingame, when the game starts… and will not affect the total filesize of your bsp.

So for “big” models like tanks trucks and rocks I always tend to make them misc_gamemodels instead of misc_models.

should I make a model of this or just stick to the brushwork?

personally I’d stick to brushwork , because it’s faster and easier to create than a model…

EDIT: oops ,Chruker posted faster than I did… :smiley:

(SCDS_reyalP) #7

Only if .bsp size is more important than network traffic and runtime entity count :banghead: You have to use a lot instances of the same complex models to have any significant impact on bsp size.

]UBC[ McNite: models are mostly good for detailed things that are hard to make in brushwork. Some people are also already have skills with modeling tools, and so prefer to use them when they can.

(zl1corvette) #8

misc_models also tend to light a bit nicer/easier than gamemodels

(FireFly) #9

After re-reading my previous post I have to admit that SCDS_reyalP is right. :banana:
changing the tank or truck models into a misc_model instead of a misc_gamemodel does not really have a big impact on the final bsp-size. (perhaps some Kb’s?) Only If you would use the same model over and over again in your map , like a tree or a specific rock-model you would gain some…

The reason why I tend to use misc_gamemodels on some of the “big” models that comes with ET (like I said before : the truck, tank etc) is because in most of the SD maps they also used a misc_gamemodel for some of the ‘‘static’’ models: for example the truck in the axis base in ‘Fueldump’ is a misc_gamemodel also the tank in the garage in ‘Radar’ is a misc_gamemodel… I always thought that they (SD) did that because they wanted to decrease the final bsp-filesize…

misc_models also tend to light a bit nicer/easier than gamemodels

You can have the misc_gamemodels cast shadows and receive light by putting in this key/value:
_rs=1 and _cs=1

(Chruker) #10

After re-reading my previous post I have to admit that SCDS_reyalP is right.
changing the tank or truck models into a misc_model instead of a misc_gamemodel does not really have a big impact on the final bsp-size. (perhaps some Kb’s?) Only If you would use the same model over and over again in your map , like a tree or a specific rock-model you would gain some…

I using misc_gamemodels instead of misc_models made a large impact on the bsp size in Hummer’s Raiders map. Before he changed to misc_gamemodels his map couldn’t load when using the default com_hunkmegs setting.

After changing his models it fitted nicely. What he found was that the models seemed to count twice in the memory used, when they were misc_models.

(G0-Gerbil) #11

Yes, but he used lots and lots of repetitive detailled models, which is the one particular case where you’ll save memory requirements using misc_gamemodel over misc_model.

I must admit I have a habit of making them misc_models with lightmapping and on occasion using the automatic clipping (but only on very big stuff like simple rocks). Works for me - I think you’d not notice much of a difference either way unless really pushing the boundaries.

(SCDS_reyalP) #12

Mmm, very old post, but I’ll bump it for a correction. misc_gamemodels only add to network traffic in some circumstances.

If a misc_gamemodel has no scriptname, targetname or spawnflags set, it is client only.

src/game/g_misc.c


	// Gordon: static gamemodels client side only now :D so server can just wave bye-bye
	if(!ent->scriptName && !ent->targetname && !ent->spawnflags) {
		G_FreeEntity( ent );
		return;
	}
(G0-Gerbil) #13

Hurrah!
BTW I’d also add that sometimes (rarely though, and only on ultra complex maps) you end up playing a balancing games - misc_models add to BSP and com_hunkmegs limits, while misc_gamemodels add to the in-game entity limit. I think the only maps that have had this problem are helmsdeep and errrr… god I hate my memory - that ‘indiana jones’ map set in the desert. I feel bad for not remembering cos I really enjoyed that map :frowning:

(Chruker) #14

Raiders

(No1_sonuk) #15

Wow, reopened 1 year to the day from its start.