What exactly IS wrong with Brink?


(Erich Sturmovik) #1

I see little wrong with this game.
I like how mashing spacebar isn’t the only way to get over objects.
I like how there isn’t a million guns with miniscule differences.
I like how the classes all play unique roles in supporting they’re teams.
I like how you can use the same character in single player and multiplayer and play the last level of the campaign first.
I like the unique character models.
I like the interesting cutscenes.
I like the gameplay.
I like the fairly unique body type system.
I haven’t found any glitches or bugs.
I can always find a nearly full server I can join.
I like how I can play it on highest quality with great FPS and no lag on my 4 year old computer.
The only thing I see wrong with this game is that other people don’t like it.

What does everyone hate about it?


(legend123) #2

hhahhaahahhaahaa. for that you have the suggestions/constructive criticism post :smiley: :penguin:


(DjIceman) #3

This game suffers from one thing - the overall gameplay design. All the little details (with a reasonable amount of exceptions) are absolutely perfect. But what lets it all down is the whole linear objective layout. The whole game is designed around putting people against each other in massive choke points. This is where the game fails and frankly, that is where it fails absolutely miserably.

That’s why parkour doesn’t work as good as it should, that’s why people get bored of the game so fast, that’s basically the root of all the problems this game has.

If they ever do a Brink 2 (and I sincerely hope they do), the first thing they should do is ditch the linear objective/map design and work from there. If you’re thinking about ET:QW, you’re on the wrong track, actually. ET:QW had quite a lot of the same sort of linear objectives. Albeit, the actual maps were pretty large and that’s why it wasn’t that big of a problem there.

There are other things here and there that, personally, I would do differently, but that’s all irrelevant to the main problem at hand.

DLC wouldn’t be able fix the game. Frankly, changing the overall gameplay design at this point would probably be a mistake altogether. I hope for Brink 2, I hope Bethesda gives them another chance.


(Kill5Joy) #4

[QUOTE=DjIceman;332999]This game suffers from one thing - the overall gameplay design. All the little details (with a reasonable amount of exceptions) are absolutely perfect. But what lets it all down is the whole linear objective layout. The whole game is designed around putting people against each other in massive choke points. This is where the game fails and frankly, that is where it fails absolutely miserably.

That’s why parkour doesn’t work as good as it should, that’s why people get bored of the game so fast, that’s basically the root of all the problems this game has.

If they ever do a Brink 2 (and I sincerely hope they do), the first thing they should do is ditch the linear objective/map design and work from there. If you’re thinking about ET:QW, you’re on the wrong track, actually. ET:QW had quite a lot of the same sort of linear objectives. Albeit, the actual maps were pretty large and that’s why it wasn’t that big of a problem there.

There are other things here and there that, personally, I would do differently, but that’s all irrelevant to the main problem at hand.

DLC wouldn’t be able fix the game. Frankly, changing the overall gameplay design at this point would
probably be a mistake altogether. I hope for Brink 2, I
hope Bethesda gives them another chance.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think he was expecting an actual answer…


(DjIceman) #5

I don’t think I was giving the answer to him. :stuck_out_tongue:


(Smokeskin) #6

[QUOTE=DjIceman;332999]This game suffers from one thing - the overall gameplay design. All the little details (with a reasonable amount of exceptions) are absolutely perfect. But what lets it all down is the whole linear objective layout. The whole game is designed around putting people against each other in massive choke points. This is where the game fails and frankly, that is where it fails absolutely miserably.

That’s why parkour doesn’t work as good as it should, that’s why people get bored of the game so fast, that’s basically the root of all the problems this game has.

If they ever do a Brink 2 (and I sincerely hope they do), the first thing they should do is ditch the linear objective/map design and work from there. If you’re thinking about ET:QW, you’re on the wrong track, actually. ET:QW had quite a lot of the same sort of linear objectives. Albeit, the actual maps were pretty large and that’s why it wasn’t that big of a problem there.

There are other things here and there that, personally, I would do differently, but that’s all irrelevant to the main problem at hand.

DLC wouldn’t be able fix the game. Frankly, changing the overall gameplay design at this point would probably be a mistake altogether. I hope for Brink 2, I hope Bethesda gives them another chance.[/QUOTE]

You’re crazy, that’s one of the best parts of Brink. That there’s often a front line that you can go to enforce, or to flank. Running around and only having chance encounters removes concepts of team positioning, ambushing and flanking. In a few places it doesn’t work, like getting spawn camped on container city, but for example when the bot is right in the front of the first resistance spawn, that’s awesome. Sec can move around and flank, both high and low, resistance can hit the bot front and back or move through and ambush reinforcements, you have that little side tunnel. It is brilliant.


(Kalbuth) #7

Since I played ET:QW, I’m just in love with objective-based, class-based gameplay. (another game I played extensively, Planetside, while much different, also had objectives “class-driven”, even if the definition of class was kinda different).
If you are suggesting to remove this to put some regular game-mode in place, imho, just forget it, and find another game. SD’s games aren’t for you


(Codine) #8

Brink failed in the eyes of pc games mostly because of how consolised it was. A lot of us were expecting a new ET and Brink just plainly sucks. It sucks so bad you can even compare it to wolf09.

The 1 button for everything works fine for console gamers but it’s terrible for pc players.

Basically the game was a ****ty console game and pc gamers got their hopes up again just to get then blown up.


(Mr. Dogg) #9

It is far from brilliant and it has many things wrong with it.

This is essentially a corridor shooter that emphasizes on team work and taking objectives while playing, and shooting, at a very fast pace (at least when compared to other games within the same genre). And to help players move within this fast-paced environment the devs saw fit to give them a smooth movement system. But at the same time the same devs saw fit to give these sliding, jumping, vaulting, and wall-hopping players the most realistic, and/or random, weapon recoil seen in modern gaming. This makes absolutely no sense and is just one of many problems that plague this game. And because of this major oversight the game is being driven by weapon selection more than body type, ability selection, and/or class selection. That’s a big problem.

And as DjIceman stated, the game suffers from lackluster gameplay design.

The maps are relatively small and only offer one or two different routes to an objective. This makes it far too easy for the defense to defend, especially when you throw mines and turrets into the equation. It isn’t good design. This is where the SMART system could have really come into play. As it currently stands, all the SMART system really does is let you reach different vantage points that offer zero help in taking an objective for your team or helps you dodge enemy fire. It essentially plays a very small role in the gameplay. You can hop and climb wherever you want, but if it doesn’t help you get to an objective in an underhanded or surprising way then why include it and hype it up so much?

And speaking of objectives, why not open all of the objectives up from the start or have multiple primary objectives (an oxymoron yes, but you get my point) that would split up the defense and offense alike? I think by doing this the game wouldn’t feel so stale and repetitive and would force teams and players to employ tactics and more thoughtful use outta their abilities and weapon load-outs.

The devs created a game that cannot be played online properly without a team that is communicating. It just cannot. That was another huge mistake on their part. If you are trying to create a game that will become popular, successful, and genre-changing then you can’t create one that alienates players who can’t always play with friends or a well organized team. And this is exactly what SD did with Brink which is why so many players have turned away from the game.

That and the multitude of audio, visual, control, and gameplay bugs, glitches, and/or oversights.

What it all comes down to is that this game is a throwback to an older style of gameplay where you and your buddies group up in an area and then just spray-n-pray when someone spots an enemy or their team. There are no gameplay features that change the way an FPS is played. There is no need for tactics due to bland map design and poor objective design and layout.

It is simple. It is repetitive. It is unpolished. It has very little content.

It is mediocre.


(DjIceman) #10

What you just said sounds pretty good on paper, but unfortunately, in the real world, people don’t co-ordinate their teams flawlessly. People don’t communicate often enough or don’t communicate at all. This is the reason SD thought the game works great, internally. And for that matter, it probably did.

In the real world, however; things work a little differently.

And also, I didn’t say which type of gameplay design would work. I even said the ET:QW model wasn’t great to begin with. There are other things that can be done. Things that don’t violate certain gameplay goals that I’m very fond of myself, actually. Also, a lot of what you said isn’t valid for the current gameplay design of Brink. I’m not exactly sure what game you’ve been playing.


(SmokeStacker) #11

What do I hate about it??

The fact that I can’t run it without crashing within 3 minutes of gameplay.

What’s to love?


(Kurushi) #12

[QUOTE=SmokeStacker;333182]What do I hate about it??

The fact that I can’t run it without crashing within 3 minutes of gameplay.

What’s to love?[/QUOTE]

Do you have a technical post anywhere I can help you on?

What’s your spec, drivers etc


(HOLOGRAM) #13

I played Wolfenstein on the original XBOX in 2003. Wolfenstein was a better game than Brink and Wolfenstein had less lag than Brink. Wolfenstein’s gameplay felt more smooth and the maps were more fun. Wolfenstein also had a server list. Brink has no server list and no lobby system. It’s been 8 years since I played that game.


(howie) #14

It worked great in RTCW and ET - the two best team/class based fps there have been :slight_smile:


(sirius89) #15

For me it’s just the performance.I can’t play this game and SD gives a **** about it.


(trollface) #16

Most worthless thread ever.

There’s not exactly a shortage of posts describing in detail exactly what people percieve as “wrong”.


(Brandmon) #17

[quote=DjIceman;332999]This game suffers from one thing - the overall gameplay design. All the little details (with a reasonable amount of exceptions) are absolutely perfect. But what lets it all down is the whole linear objective layout. The whole game is designed around putting people against each other in massive choke points. This is where the game fails and frankly, that is where it fails absolutely miserably.

That’s why parkour doesn’t work as good as it should, that’s why people get bored of the game so fast, that’s basically the root of all the problems this game has.

If they ever do a Brink 2 (and I sincerely hope they do), the first thing they should do is ditch the linear objective/map design and work from there. If you’re thinking about ET:QW, you’re on the wrong track, actually. ET:QW had quite a lot of the same sort of linear objectives. Albeit, the actual maps were pretty large and that’s why it wasn’t that big of a problem there.

There are other things here and there that, personally, I would do differently, but that’s all irrelevant to the main problem at hand.

DLC wouldn’t be able fix the game. Frankly, changing the overall gameplay design at this point would probably be a mistake altogether. I hope for Brink 2, I hope Bethesda gives them another chance.[/quote]

I have to disagree. The most obvious reason for this is that the linearity there serves a purpose. With the game having a degree of linearity, you enable teamplay as you can have a team focusing on something. Isn’t that the point of a team? If you scatter everyone around to do his own thing, then the team mechanics in the game lose their purpose and then it simply becomes a TDM; which CoD does well enough and therefore Brink shouldn’t try to replicate.

Rather, there are hardly any Multiplayer games that encourage team-play without a significant degree of linearity. Even the BF series is more linear than not since it all boils down to going for certain objectives and the game only allows certain freedoms for players on two main elements: relatively large maps and large player numbers; of which Brink doesn’t possess.

So in my opinion, and that of others which like these kind of games, SD have done a good job at map and gameplay design.

But indeed there are problems with the game. First of all has to be the performance of the game. On ATI cards it is atrocious (although this is not completely SD’s fault) and one can’t help to feel the lack of smoothness of the game.

Furthermore another significant problem is that Brink tried to jack of all trades. Both in terms of “blurring the lines of Singleplayer and Multiplayer”; it’s unquestionably a multiplayer game in the end, and in terms of being both a PC and Console game. In the end, it is kind of a master of none.


(DjIceman) #18

[QUOTE=Brandmon;333422]I have to disagree. The most obvious reason for this is that the linearity there serves a purpose. With the game having a degree of linearity, you enable teamplay as you can have a team focusing on something. Isn’t that the point of a team? If you scatter everyone around to do his own thing, then the team mechanics in the game lose their purpose and then it simply becomes a TDM; which CoD does well enough and therefore Brink shouldn’t try to replicate.

Rather, there are hardly any Multiplayer games that encourage team-play without a significant degree of linearity. Even the BF series is more linear than not since it all boils down to going for certain objectives and the game only allows certain freedoms for players on two main elements: relatively large maps and large player numbers; of which Brink doesn’t possess.

So in my opinion, and that of others which like these kind of games, SD have done a good job at map and gameplay design.

But indeed there are problems with the game. First of all has to be the performance of the game. On ATI cards it is atrocious (although this is not completely SD’s fault) and one can’t help to feel the lack of smoothness of the game.

Furthermore another significant problem is that Brink tried to jack of all trades. Both in terms of “blurring the lines of Singleplayer and Multiplayer”; it’s unquestionably a multiplayer game in the end, and in terms of being both a PC and Console game. In the end, it is kind of a master of none.[/QUOTE]

Once again, there are other ways than to make huge, open scale maps. There are other ways of doing it. And oh look! I meant those other ways of doing it. And also, there are other ways of directing gameplay (ways that would also work in the current state of Brink).

Also, at the moment, Brink is (for the most part) sugarcoating the lone wolf concept. Most people don’t actually work together, even if they’re standing next to each other. There are ways to encourage working together. Unfortunately, Brink does not employ enough methods to do that.

While the linearity may serve a purpose in the developers’ minds, it doesn’t actually serve that purpose in the real world. And in the process, it also damages the gameplay in general. Why are people able to play a Rush map in BFBC2 50 times without getting bored, but can’t do the same in Brink? It’s too repetitive. The only thing that slightly changes is the enemy position and even then, you will more often that not have the same guy come from the same hallway 150 times in a row. There are other, more detailed reasons (also on a map to map basis) as well.

Tactics can mostly only be employed on the team level. And even in that case, it would just be a matter of gathering X amount of people at Y position. That’s all very nice, but it doesn’t keep people hooked for months. Frankly, even a couple of weeks seems like a stretch, going by Steam statistics. And that’s putting aside the whole fireteam creation problem and the whole problem of people not communicating enough. And the even bigger problem of a lot of people not feeling comfortable communicating. But let me say this - there are ways of encouraging teamwork. SD simply expected people to do it on their own (albeit, with a slight bit of attempted help from the objective wheel).

Bottom line is that, even if the intentions are good, the linear gameplay doesn’t really work. And I don’t just mean the bigger picture of it. I mean everything that came with it, and frankly, that didn’t come with it. And bare in mind, again, that there are other ways of doing this than either making it completely linear or making it ridiculously open scale. There are a lot of things that can be done in between those things. And even things that don’t actually fit between those things.

@howie, That’s interesting. Also, it is very relevant, because we are talking about ET and RTCW. Oh wait! No we’re not. Oh. Whatever.


(Brandmon) #19

[quote=DjIceman;333481]Once again, there are other ways than to make huge, open scale maps. There are other ways of doing it. And oh look! I meant those other ways of doing it. And also, there are other ways of directing gameplay (ways that would also work in the current state of Brink).

Also, at the moment, Brink is (for the most part) sugarcoating the lone wolf concept. Most people don’t actually work together, even if they’re standing next to each other. There are ways to encourage working together. Unfortunately, Brink does not employ enough methods to do that.

While the linearity may serve a purpose in the developers’ minds, it doesn’t actually serve that purpose in the real world. And in the process, it also damages the gameplay in general. Why are people able to play a Rush map in BFBC2 50 times without getting bored, but can’t do the same in Brink? It’s too repetitive. The only thing that slightly changes is the enemy position and even then, you will more often that not have the same guy come from the same hallway 150 times in a row. There are other, more detailed reasons (also on a map to map basis) as well.

Tactics can mostly only be employed on the team level. And even in that case, it would just be a matter of gathering X amount of people at Y position. That’s all very nice, but it doesn’t keep people hooked for months. Frankly, even a couple of weeks seems like a stretch, going by Steam statistics. And that’s putting aside the whole fireteam creation problem and the whole problem of people not communicating enough. And the even bigger problem of a lot of people not feeling comfortable communicating. But let me say this - there are ways of encouraging teamwork. SD simply expected people to do it on their own (albeit, with a slight bit of attempted help from the objective wheel).

Bottom line is that, even if the intentions are good, the linear gameplay doesn’t really work. And I don’t just mean the bigger picture of it. I mean everything that came with it, and frankly, that didn’t come with it. And bare in mind, again, that there are other ways of doing this than either making it completely linear or making it ridiculously open scale. There are a lot of things that can be done in between those things. And even things that don’t actually fit between those things.

@howie, That’s interesting. Also, it is very relevant, because we are talking about ET and RTCW. Oh wait! No we’re not. Oh. Whatever.[/quote]

You have some good points, although I bet to differ on BFBC2, as in both Brink and BFBC2 is equally repetitive imo. And funnily enough enjoy them equally.

That said you haven’t clearly stated what things need to be changed to make encourage teamwork or make it more interesting. It would be helpful if you said something that could be applied so that I could make sense of it.


(el1as) #20

[QUOTE=DjIceman;333481]…

While the linearity may serve a purpose in the developers’ minds, it doesn’t actually serve that purpose in the real world. And in the process, it also damages the gameplay in general. Why are people able to play a Rush map in BFBC2 50 times without getting bored, but can’t do the same in Brink? It’s too repetitive. The only thing that slightly changes is the enemy position and even then, you will more often that not have the same guy come from the same hallway 150 times in a row. There are other, more detailed reasons (also on a map to map basis) as well.
…[/QUOTE]

this is the key point, one of the 2 keypoints for brink failure, the second one is the low tech level of the engine idtech4 + sd IT staff

generally, asimmetrical game mode as stopwatch are more fit for clan wars than for fun servers
sw is a good idea in the mind of some developer, but in the real world there is no natural teamplay, coordination and so on
rush game mod for bc2 is a bit better because of the larger maps, just 1 or 2 maps has a bottleneck