What do you want from Dirty Bomb web services?


(scre4m.) #21

I dont really see a big use in stats pages in general, either. Yet I kink of liked the Battlelog for BF3 quite much. Had some social features, you could invite players on your server via drag n drop and stuff, ther was so much stuff.^^

Especially knowing your accuracies and KDR for every single weapon was a little help finding errors in my BF3 gameplay.
All other stuff was actually nice to have it, but it didnt really have a big use.

All in all I’d like to see: ACC Kills/minute and KDR for each weapon. All other stuff does not really matter to me.


(malarky) #22

So it looks like there’s two clear camps here, people who want to know more information about the game, and those who want information about their personal performance. There’s also a definite opinion that presenting some stats will encourage more selfish play, which we’re definitely aware of and we need to avoid.

Here’s another question: How can we better support competitive play with our web services? I’m thinking about tourney organisation tools as well as stats services.

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming :slight_smile:


(BomBaKlaK) #23

[QUOTE=malarky;441649]So it looks like there’s two clear camps here, people who want to know more information about the game, and those who want information about their personal performance. There’s also a definite opinion that presenting some stats will encourage more selfish play, which we’re definitely aware of and we need to avoid.

Here’s another question: How can we better support competitive play with our web services? I’m thinking about tourney organisation tools as well as stats services.

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming :)[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah !
some match making and organisation tool for tourney, or night cups with few teams can be perfect.
we need some clan page, and with this clan page the leaders can add the clan to the tourney with a validation of the players involve in the team. a system to make some promotion about your pub and private servers on the clan page is needed to, with the clan servers (pub and war) in appropriate section.

with match stats at the end of the match and a special page for tourney.

Keep it simple, efficient and reactive. :wink:


(Mustang) #24

I assume SD are not planning on running tournaments and ladders yourselves, at least on a permanent basis (although I think a quarterly ladder would be fairly easy to manage with minimal effort), and instead just plan on supporting externals.

In which case I think it would be nice if organisers could create their tournament/ladder within the DB “world”, a website as well API would be appreciated.

This would allow for lots of cool things, like:

  • Organisers can set their rules/restrictions which automatically get applied when their games are being played, and players can visibly and easily see the correct rules are in effect.
  • Match results and tournament progression/ladder positions are automatically submitted without the need for manually entering and confirming.
  • Temporary teams can be formed for each tournament and organisers can disable playing for multiple teams if desired.
  • Probably lots more that I can’t think of at 3am :slight_smile:

Which reminds me, I wanted to ask if you’re able to explain what the current thinking is with regards to anti-cheat.


(BomBaKlaK) #25

[QUOTE=Mustang;441806]
Which reminds me, I wanted to ask if you’re able to explain what the current thinking is with regards to anti-cheat.[/QUOTE]

Yes I really want to know about the anticheat to !


(Bangtastic) #26

Brainstorm; not everything really fits this topic:

-limited number of comp teams being in/ distinction between fun pub team, comp team; Therefore possibility to create pub only and comp only tournaments? (reduces chance that pub teams face more serious/better ones)

-Give Teams possibility to structure their team; Customizable position/nicknames (given by team-owner/leader) which are shown in the profile patch + thumbail profile pictures

-Uploadable tournament picture
-Team invitation function for tournaments (16 bracket tournament - for instance 8 are reserved for invite only; other teams can signup; organizer can choose)
-Host can pay to set ingame prize money up or sth else
-Google Maps like Tactic planner (would be nice to give us high res top view pictures)
-embedding function for tourney trees/match results
-Challenging tool; send a match challenge/pcw request for a team; (gain some xtra xp whatsoever)


(potty200) #27

Here is one idea I liked the sound of when I ran it through in my head!

  • XP-per minute. So have a leaderboard of who earns the most XP-per minute for each class. This shouldn’t include XP earnt for like kills and assists JUST for medic things or engi things. Hopefully this would have a positive impact on public players tryng to earn XP?

Anyway, was a bti of a wishy-washy idea but it sounded good when I was thinking of it! :smiley:


(ImageOmega) #28

[QUOTE=potty200;441905]Here is one idea I liked the sound of when I ran it through in my head!

  • XP-per minute. So have a leaderboard of who earns the most XP-per minute for each class. This shouldn’t include XP earnt for like kills and assists JUST for medic things or engi things. Hopefully this would have a positive impact on public players tryng to earn XP?

Anyway, was a bti of a wishy-washy idea but it sounded good when I was thinking of it! :D[/QUOTE]

Very similar to Battlelog’s front player profile page which I think they should be emulating.


(BomBaKlaK) #29

Please nooooo ! To much stats kill the stats !


(ImageOmega) #30

Have you played BF3 and checked out Battelog?

I know with the stats and achievements tied in I had a buddy who solely played to unlock things and get achievements. He was not the best player in the world, but he had an amazing time unlocking every thing and I enjoyed playing with him because of that.

But, the robustness of it was pretty amazing to me and I am the type of person that likes checking out what people do and seeing it on paper.


(BomBaKlaK) #31

[QUOTE=ImageOmega;442116]Have you played BF3 and checked out Battelog?

I know with the stats and achievements tied in I had a buddy who solely played to unlock things and get achievements. He was not the best player in the world, but he had an amazing time unlocking every thing and I enjoyed playing with him because of that.

But, the robustness of it was pretty amazing to me and I am the type of person that likes checking out what people do and seeing it on paper.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I understand, I like stats to ! But there is some limits. Cause players after play only for stats and just dont care about what’s happen in the current game looking only for they’re “Stats” and unlocks and just dont care at all about the objective, or what else.

So yeah some stats (not to much but the essential), kind of social network for friends matches and stuffs, Clan page with dedicated server slot for the promotion (pub and war with direct link to launch a game), and match making for me this is enought

Simple and efficient ! To much is to much and for me battlelog is a way to much !

just in case : http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/user/llll-BOMBA/ I know :wink:


(Samurai.) #32

This is quite hard to come up with as we don’t usually get given to many things like this, most web services seem to just benefit casual players with stats sites.

Sponsoring tournaments is the main thing - anything with prizes automatically gains more attention / participants.

Once you have people’s attendance & attention to spectate then: (Note most of these are completely basic ideas off the top of my head with little thought :tongue:)

  • Integrated twitch/YouTube streaming seems to be a must for esport streaming - also nice to see player POV’s just for normal games to see how the top guys are playing.

  • An official esport media database for VOD’s/player demo’s to be submitted after tournies with prizes hosted by SD?

-An esport news section on the official site - i know these are usually run by external communities but official sites get more views as open to the entire playerbase audience, rather than those that specifically venture into these external esport hubs.

  • (This is a completely random idea that just came to me)… basically think advanced tactical centre meets google streetview (i might be going insane here) - You start up a chat room, invite people into it from your friends/clan list, once in it you can free fly/streetview through the maps with the ability to draw/label/stamp pictures on the map/annotate it with tactic’s/positioning that everyone within the chat room can see. Be able to save the annotations within the map (so invited people can access at any time) and then have the option to publish them to the public if you wish (would be a cool way for pro teams to share/teach their tactics etc). Also would be a really convenient tool for sorting out tactics rather than joining an empty private server for ages and describing to your teammates what you want them to do… then 2 hours later redoing it because one of them was afk on TS. :mad:

-An in game betting system for esport matches. Basically an in game currency (maybe XP? that is earned by playing the game - if you really want to people could buy Y with real money which can then be converted into X which can be used for betting - but X can also be gained by playtime) that can be transferred towards betting on the outcome of certain esport games, mixing this in with a featured stream on the page with a discussion box could make spectating esports more interesting as you have an invested interest in the outcome of games - gets pub players to start taking an active interest in esports even if they don’t want to compete they still get enjoyment trying to gamble their investment.

These are all i have right now, the streetview is a little far fetched, in my head it looks AMAZING, maybe for everyone else it seems a little crazy. The betting system wasn’t my idea (was apoc’s) but i probably like it the most out of these… maybe i will come up with more idea’s soon.

Edit: totally didn’t read any of the posts above me - apologies for those that have similar suggestions.

didn’t feel like my explanation did justice to the tactics centre suggestion so drew a picture during the ad break of the ESEA lan stream…


/crazypostover.


(Bloodbite) #33

I’m against any sort of gambling in the game. Reason? I can see it being an element that not only cheapens the skill factor involved in earning your progression in the game, ultimately giving the game the taint of P2W… in an abstract kind of way. I also see it conflicting with whatever the microtransaction model ends up being.

It’s not that I don’t think gambling can’t be exploited in esports, I just see it having far too many negatives for DB in particular.


(Bangtastic) #34

yeh klind of a modified spec mode is probably the easiest way (standalone?) doing such screenshots and pave them together correctly is lil bit of work

, what about using some

  • luminescend pulsating arrow tracers on the ground, circle rectangle surface and spheres, in different colours like a trace route
  • ability to place ghosts with major types of weapons - length and direction of tracers can be adjusted, demo explosion for different nades, other explosives etc.

screenshots np, videorecording np^^

betting system might sound good but as bloodbite said, to many negatives. most important, the abuse in this case is pretty likely (unless its a more complex system, but i guess this could go for an own product which can be offered to every game developer^^)


(Samurai.) #35

We don’t seem to be on the same wavelength here at all.

XP was just an example but i mean you can have your entirely own currency just for esport betting that’s seperate to any progression you make in game.

Just curious, what progression system do you have in mind for DB? as i don’t see this as an MMO game where you get more powerful the higher the level you are…

The idea was to get public players who are shy/uninterested in esport’s to take an interest without just being a spectator. With XP it is something that can be earned continuously through playtime hours especially via the main playerbase. Then they have the risk/reward situation of gambling their precious XP and what do public players care about the most? = who has the most XP…

It’s like betting on a football match, even if you support neither of the teams, it instantly becomes more interesting and worthwhile for you to watch when you have a reward/loss from the outcome. I mean you can translate XP into another currency for betting which you can’t then get back to XP if you are really concerned. Then SD could make seperate leaderboards for the best gamblers, and this could be a completely new aspect of the game that supports esports & adds a new dynamic for public players.

I don’t see how this will taint P2W as right now the microtransaction model ideally from basically everyone’s mindset is towards anything you can buy being purely cosmetic - having no influence on your likelihood to win an actual game. In terms of actual gambling leaderboards yes it would provide an advantage for those that Pay actual money for more in game currency = larger bets = larger profit… but there has to be a risk/reward element especially when they are paying their own real money to top some leaderboard - money goes to SD - SD financial support = longer term support/funds for a new game = everyone wins. It also provides a simple income for SD except they need to be good at managing the odd’s for the esport games.

Overall i think you took the XP example too far without seeing alternatives to make this work, and instead just dismissed it completely with weak excuses that don’t really make sense to me rather than looking at the benefit it could provide the esport scene.


(Bangtastic) #36

hmm sounds good when there are strict bet limits/ different bet instances depending on lvl and earned xp etc so that ppl with more xp/ higher lvl cant skim off too much from “poor” ppl, as long as there isnt an auction thing everything is fine^^ This will also make creating tournaments more attractive.

When ingame currency is used np, but for xp there must be some secondary xp counter, which wont let you lvl up and wont effect progression!!! only for this purpose and for some semi-premium cosmetic items.

It is one of the necessary steps to improve esports as a business. But i also think there are enough other and better ways to do so. There is only one real problem: At which point is gambling really considered as gambling (getting profit in form of real money = profit in form of virtual currency which cant be turned back?) in most countries gambling is for 16+, 18+ maybe even 21+
I dont really want to attract kids to exploit their phones, parents credit cards and so on^^ which leads to addiction/obsession;

on the other hand from a economical standpoint there are only pro arguments. business is dirty as we know^^

no matter what happens but this will have an impact on attention and it will be some good moneymaker, no doubt.


(Kl3ppy) #37

I like the idea of a betting system as long as you cant use the “money” there won to buy upgrades and stuff. It should be just a thing to show how good you are in valuting the teams etc. Also it would promote TV servers because I like to see on what I bet :wink:

For the stats pages I liked the etqw stats page but I want more detailed Info about myself. I like the battlelog and symthic.com. I dont know if its really important to have the detailed weapon statistics but its a nice to have thing.


(Mustang) #38

Quoting this guy that echo’s my concerns mentioned above.

[QUOTE=demsix;442319]I bricked it when I saw that K/D/A was shown on the scoreboard. What I loved about ET / ETQW was that since it was XP-based, it rewards you for doing team work and objectives, rather than “Oh, this guy has a terrible KDA, he must be bad”.

If there is going to be a public profile with stats shown, then can we make sure that K/D/A isn’t publicly available? EXP per min per class would be much more useful.[/QUOTE]

EDIT: My previous post.


(Bangtastic) #39

a good kda doesnt mean good player^^ it can mean everything and also mean nothing

i think its enough to prevent a compare-check function as in battlelog, just show the stats without comparing anything. It should be up to the player how he interprets the numbers. plain and simple^^

Maybe at least a player can check and uncheck the stats he wants to be public


(Bloodbite) #40

[QUOTE=Samurai.;442299]…
Overall i think you took the XP example too far without seeing alternatives to make this work, and instead just dismissed it completely with weak excuses that don’t really make sense to me rather than looking at the benefit it could provide the esport scene.[/QUOTE]

I got what you meant.

If it’s a form of game currency that is earnable through skill, that does introduce the element of chance reward that is completely lacking in skill… it’s not strictly P2W, but it’s within the same arena, and it will eventually induce the same ire from people as a P2W model. Not as strong a hatred, but it will piss some people enough to be vocal about it, and that will have an impact on the game’s reputation in this touchy area of F2P perfection everyone is waiting for in the industry/market.

It won’t work with cosmetic micro items. Just look at it from the point of view of exploitation… one hack exploit could potentially cripple SD’s source of income from the game for however long it takes to patch that problem, but what’s worse is something like that, just one big hit, would cause long term damage to the reputation of the game. In the time of tracking down and fixing the problem, there would also be the need to remove/clean up any ill gotten gains.

Gambling introduces a whole new breed of hacking scum into the equation, where there’s less to hack ,more of an incentive to exploit for greater and quicker gains than an ingame hack.

It may be naysaying, but the risk on that front is big enough to make it not worth pursuing. More hassle than it’s worth.

But also looking at it from the micro side of things, that lessens the chance that people will be willing to spend their hard earned cash on items. There are easier ways to lure people into the idea of getting a taste of the world of microtransaction goodies.

The actual payoff for gambling would then have to be something else… but what could it be without seeming like a distraction from the game, and superfluous in value?

Real money is out of the question because that introduces all kinds of legal and taxation requirements for SD to meet in every single country the game is released to (processes payments/payouts from/to). Even with SD receiving real $$$ for what will ultimately remain ingame currency with no cash payouts, it crosses the line from entertainment gaming into casino style gaming, and all it takes is one arsehole to make a complaint to law enforcement or a tax department in a certain country that has stricter guidelines than usual for gambling and that country/region of players may suddenly be faced with being denied a perk in the game everyone else still has access to, or completely being denied legal access to the game, or at least local servers.

The core appeal of gambling is to earn something for nothing…pretty much, I think everyone would agree on that. And it’s hard to see a way that could fit into the game without unbalancing it’s earning potential for SD and its long term, loyal player base.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but there are a lot of negative hurdles that need to be considered in this equation.

[ul]
[li]Extra profit? maybe
[/li][li]Improved interest from the client base? maybe, not everyone likes gambling though. Some couldn’t care less, and some are perhaps morally against it (or are just true penny pinchers that find it incomprehensible… plenty of those in the gaming world, and especially in the F2P market)
[/li][li]Extra SD resources required to devote towards maintenance & security? Absolutely
[/li][li]Extra risk from both the legal and illegal ‘folk’ around the world? Inevitable on some level from the illegal, possible from legal.
[/li][li]Esports outside of Korea… is it really ready for this level of interest to make it worth the risk and resources invested into this alternate dynamic? I am of the opinion the answer is no
[/li][/ul]

To avoid being one of these downer posters that has no positives to add. The only way I can see this working is if it isn’t really DB related. If it is implemented into the Fireteam service, making DB just one of the games using that service that can be gambled on. Fireteam would have to have its own system of rewards, its own lure of benefits for gambling reward that is independent from any game using it. A benefit to this is that you create a proper betting environment where future titles are easily accessed. It doesn’t put any one game at risk of being attacked/crippled/restricted-in-a-specific-country.