What do you guys think about "combat" mechanics like: crouch-spamming, aimpunch, and jump-spamminig?

(chickenNwaffles) #1

If any of you here have played against higher level players, you may notice that whenever you get into a duel, most, spam crouch repeatedly, causing their player model to bounce up a down and making their heads substantially harder to hit. It stops becoming a battle of who can aim better, and starts to become a battle of who can dodge more bullets.

Do you guys think that this is a fair mechanic that adds more depth to combat? or another rng mechanic that takes away from skill?

Same thing with aimpunch, or the flinching your merc does when shot. This adds to the crouch spamming dilemma, making people who crouch-spam even harder to hit.

Jump spamming is kind of lame; you can just bounce off the walls (especially with a shotgun) infinitely while fighting people.

All these seem to make combat less about aiming in my opinion and add too much rng to the game.

But, that is just my 2-cence, so what do you guys think?

(Fake nick) #2

For me personally the jump spamming or crouching of the enemy is not a issue at all. If you skilled enough then you can still follow his head or place crazy amount of the body shoots.
Of course it needs higher skill to follow this type of player with your gun than a player who is only strafing left or right. And I really like to use the wall jumping to my advantage, jump towards the wall during a gunfight, bounce from it and land behind the enemy. It is really fun to do and to watch.
But who am I to judge the game mechanics. :wink:
That is my 2 cents to your 2 cents so in total we’ve got 4. Let’s the shitstorm stared :slight_smile:

(Vaxen) #3

To me, all the movement-related aspects of your post raise the skill ceiling of the game in a positive way. It isn’t cheap because the player crouch spamming or jumping also has to adjust their aim to account for for the variance in their POV height. If anything, it makes the game FAR more aim intensive. I don’t really see what makes it any different from someone AD spamming to avoid bullets. I think a lot of people that dislike this kind of stuff come from “authentic” military shooters like BF4 or CS:GO whereby crouch/jump spamming isn’t something soldiers would do in real life. Sure the games aren’t 100% realistic, but there is obviously a line drawn somewhere. Dirty Bomb on the other hand, isn’t really grounded that much in reality. It’s a fun premise(money-hungry mercenaries) with a cartoony look to it. Where crouch spamming/bunny hopping would look out of place in modern military shooters, it fits right in(imo) in games with lighter atmospheres such as TF2 or Dirty Bomb.

Flinch on the other hand is something I will never agree with, unless it effects snipers only. Flinch adds a lot of randomness to the game. You can die to someone who is less skilled than you simply because they happened to start shooting you first and made you unable to aim properly due to aimpunch.

(Reddeadcap) #4

Aimpuch never affected me until I used a sniper rifle and had my shots fly 3 feet above someone’s head from a pistol shot across a long borrow hallway, its just annoying in general, the rest doesn’t bother me at all.

(NuclearSharkhead) #5

Most of these things you mentioned are just more options for players to do combat however they choose, adding to the game some depth that most modern shooters lack. Aimpunch on the other hand is pretty unnecessary imo.

(RuleofBooKz) #6

In DB the fast pace combined with movement with a wide dynamic range of makes the game better.

Dont get me wrong there definitely can be “too much” movement stuff added but since there is no slide or any of that nonsense it seems to me a nice balance so far

(Fake nick) #7

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;9687”]In DB the fast pace combined with movement with a wide dynamic range of makes the game better.

Dont get me wrong there definitely can be “too much” movement stuff added but since there is no slide or any of that nonsense it seems to me a nice balance so far[/quote]

Exactly, the amount of movement mechanics in my eyes is enough. Hopefully we not gonna receive any of this press space to “vault,slide,parkour” BS

(Fana) #8

I think jump spamming is fine since theres’ a certain skill element to it and it helps make shotguns more viable (as a combat maneuver it’s only useful for shotguns, since it ruins the accuracy of other guns).

I am undecided about aimpunch. It’s extremely frustrating to lose fights because your crosshair is bouncing all over, and it places undue emphasis on hitting first in a fight. On the other hand, it does add another element of gun control to fights and it isn’t any more or less annoying than your merc having seizures everytime an explosion goes off nearby (8v8 feels like a Parkinsons simulator at times).

Crouch spamming is something I’ve disagreed with since the alpha days, and even made a lengthy post about on the alpha forums back in 2014. While I agree that the crouch spammer also has adjust his aim, I fail to see how this adds any element of skill or otherwise positive quality to gameplay. Personally I would like to see movement speed drastically reduced when tapping crouch repeatedly, which should make crouch spamming much less viable in combat without affecting its other uses. That said, I don’t think this is a serious issue.

(bubblesKeyboard) #9

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;1833”]If any of you here have played against higher level players, you may notice that whenever you get into a duel, most, spam crouch repeatedly, causing their player model to bounce up a down and making their heads substantially harder to hit. It stops becoming a battle of who can aim better, and starts to become a battle of who can dodge more bullets.

Do you guys think that this is a fair mechanic that adds more depth to combat? or another rng mechanic that takes away from skill?

Same thing with aimpunch, or the flinching your merc does when shot. This adds to the crouch spamming dilemma, making people who crouch-spam even harder to hit.

Jump spamming is kind of lame; you can just bounce off the walls (especially with a shotgun) infinitely while fighting people.

All these seem to make combat less about aiming in my opinion and add too much rng to the game.

But, that is just my 2-cence, so what do you guys think?[/quote]

You also have to consider that this makes aiming harder for the person who is doing these techniques. Tracking your target becomes substantially harder when you’re wall jumping - you consistently have to adjust your aim. However this does make it tough to snipe… HAH!

Flinch is something you just need to get used too. It’s in many games and it’s there to reward the more accurate player - although it is quite controversial. This is magnified for snipers though… HAH!

MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST STOP SNIPING @chickenNwaffles !!!

But I digress. IMO evading is much more effective than being tanky in this game. The movement in this game throws me off and I have a harder time taking out a Proxy than a Fragger. But then again anything that widens a skill gap is welcomed by me :slight_smile:

Although I have to admit heads are pretty fkin tiny in this game.

(appreciativeBuster) #10

I call that tactics.

(itssmacks) #11

My two cents;

I think jump spamming is fine, it really fits with the fast paced game style and although it makes you harder to hit it also makes it harder for you to hit people. It is definatley a core part of the game and removing it would really change the whole dirty bomb feel

Crouch spamming should be removed, its not as bad as it is/was in Combat Arms where if someone is crouch spamming you effectively cant win unless you crouch spam, Nexon EU recently announced crouch spamming is now bannable in CA. Its not that bad in Dirty bomb as the way it changes your hitbox is different, but it is still frustrating and doesn’t really add anything to the game. However it is very hard to remove, which is why nexon haven’t been able to patch it out of CA even though it has been terrible for literally years. If it gets really bad splash damage can start handing out temp bans.

Aimpunch I am kinda on the fence about, on one hand I like it, on the other I don’t; Especially not on Vasilii. Potentially the amount of aimpunch on vasilii should be changed. What I would HATE to see is a perk for reduced aimpunch to basically become a necessity on Vasilii. I guess we will see how bad it is on Redeye when he comes back out (I didn’t play much on him in the earlier beta so I cant really comment)

(Varonth) #12

Everyone is like: Aimpunch is bad for Vasilii.

Try to use Arty’s terrible Q when someone is shooting on you xD

God Arty why must you be so incredible terrible at everything? xD

(son!) #13

personally as a player the jump and crouch spam doesn’t bother me at all because I try to open up with headshots before someone can start spamming whatever they want. If I dont hit headshots in the first few I just stay high-center-of-mass which is easier to hit if they are not moving side-to-side. Only time it really helps I think is when you’re very close range and the little bit of movement in your model translates into a lot of movement on screen. Close range is always a bit of a crap shoot (no matter the game tbh) but maybe this spamming can give you a few more percent chance of winning. Also I guess jumping and crouching are effective at turning a vassilli headshot into a body shot. Auto v Auto though I don’t see a big advantage, and as players get used to it I doubt it’d be any more effective than good adad dodging.

as a spectator i think it looks stupid to see people bobbing up and down. untrained eye sees gimmicky and cheap and the more gimmicky and cheap looking mechanics you have the less people respect the the game/players. counter-strike is similar in that headshots are a big deal (even bigger than in DB) and they nerfed the crouch spam by putting crouches on cool down (can spam like 3 times quickly before you can crouch again for ~1s).

(Szakalot) #14

[quote=“Varonth;9770”]Everyone is like: Aimpunch is bad for Vasilii.

Try to use Arty’s terrible Q when someone is shooting on you xD

God Arty why must you be so incredible terrible at everything? xD[/quote]

try using ‘4’ instead of ‘q’ to mark artillery strikes.

(subtleChain) #15

Right now aimpunch it’s the only thing that keeps snipers from being broken at a high level. I’m not really sure about what I think of it with rifles though, I don’t think it’s completely out of hand right now but it might need to be reduced a bit, I’d have to play more high level matches to get a definitive opinion.

But I agree with the repeated crouching though, it’s too good right now because the animation is too fast, and I don’t think it should be instantaneous.

(athleticInspiration) #16

I think right now the consistent jumping/crouching is the only thing making lightweight gunners viable vs. Fragger. Otherwise its like, oh there’s fragger I lose unless I have teammates. It makes a balance for 1v1 battles where a Fragger still has the advantage due to health, but with well placed aim and dodging allows the faster, agile class possibly take the kill. There is no reason to remove this feature at this point as it flows well within the style of game and I doubt that they will remove it as I believe that is the point of having quick classes with the jumping ability.

(einstyle) #17

I do that, but the skill is still quite a nuisance to use

(Amerika) #18

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;1833”]If any of you here have played against higher level players, you may notice that whenever you get into a duel, most, spam crouch repeatedly, causing their player model to bounce up a down and making their heads substantially harder to hit. It stops becoming a battle of who can aim better, and starts to become a battle of who can dodge more bullets.

Do you guys think that this is a fair mechanic that adds more depth to combat? or another rng mechanic that takes away from skill?

Same thing with aimpunch, or the flinching your merc does when shot. This adds to the crouch spamming dilemma, making people who crouch-spam even harder to hit.

Jump spamming is kind of lame; you can just bounce off the walls (especially with a shotgun) infinitely while fighting people.

All these seem to make combat less about aiming in my opinion and add too much rng to the game.

But, that is just my 2-cence, so what do you guys think?[/quote]

Almost all of the people who are crouching like that are old Wolf/ET players who have not broken the habit. I find them pretty easy to kill because they aren’t using the games mobility to their defensive and offensive advantage. While I’m running in and jumping off a wall and strafe shooting they are mostly sitting in one spot eating every bullet.

(solt.) #19

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The core of the article is addressing the main cause behind this thread and the thinking that goes into this thread.

Please give it a go.

(Warning, the title/terminology seems abrasive, but keep reading)