Well, well, well... (11/11 Patch)


(PixelTwitch) #1

So, having had a few hours to play I have come up with a few feedback points…

First off, let’s talk about Dome…
I have never tried to hide that I really disliked the map before this update. So there is no point in hiding how much I more I dislike it after this update. The constructable doors are a real frustration as they take 55 seconds to blow but only 10 seconds to construct. The drop off point seems to wildly contradict other changes made in this patch due to its vulnerability to AoE spam. Overall, I find the map to big with too many overlooking angles onto the objective. Whilst I assume that the map would play much better in a competitive environment, public play simply does not work due to the wide spread of attackers and lack of communication. The later objectives are not much better. The increased cover also doubles as increased potential ambush points. This has moved the battle for the final objective into midfield with a long sprint to plant after winning a fight. The long distant spawn for the Attackers also means that the fight is too likely to fall back to midfield after a failed plant. This objective is still relatively easy to attack on, its just no where near as fun in my opinion. Dome really seems to suffer from some major contradictions with the overall game design. The second objective is still a strange one… Double primary attacker objectives seem very much out of place. It is not fun to defend in that situation and the attack almost seems to come down to luck in a public environment. Simply odd… I don’t like Dome at all…

Now the general “buffs” that most the Mercs received.
This is quite a strange one really… Yes, I have been getting way more kills with my abilities and weapons at the right ranges. So on the surface it seems that the (keeping balance to one side) changes have worked in the way they were intended. Under closer inspection however, that is not exactly what I believe is happening. Due to the lower TTK and lack of counter play, each Merc now feels like a one trick pony. I would have much preferred to have seen more depth added to the abilities rather than a simple buff. Now, I do understand that this would require a lot more work but I do feel it is required in order to really define that skill curve and Merc identity. A simple example of this would be having Auras healing station be able to toggle between healing and doing damage by tapping Q. If you want to place a new station simply hold Q for 2 seconds. Having a enemies healing station at your feet and seeing the animation but not healing just feels odd and can be frustrating as its not instantly recognisable to what teams healing station it actually is. Adding this kind of functionality gives Aura much more depth, increases skill potential and adds counter play. Actually, I feel that the biggest down side of the latest patch is the lack of/reduction of counter play. No longer having the ability to quickly pounce off a mine, escape a close range Nader martyrdom or heal using an enemies healing station has removed so much skill and depth from the game.

The Weapons…
So far I have managed to get my hands on the Bolt Action Sniper and Battle Rifle. Instantly you notice that they are almost direct clones from other weapons. The biggest problem with weapons that are nearly identical is that one will always be better and if by chance I am wrong and one is not better you will almost always fall into the trap of irrelevancy. The Battle Rifle feels basically the same as the Aug and the Bolt Action Rifle is almost identical to the normal Sniper Rifle. The Sniper Rifle vs the Bolt Action Rifle is more concerning due to being able to use them both on the same Merc. Having just come from a week of Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare I am noticing a distinct lack of weapon variation. Here are just some of the weapon types available in the latest CoD.

[ul]
[li]Semi Auto[/li][li]Auto[/li][li]2 Shot Burst[/li][li]3 Shot Burst[/li][li]4 Shot Burst[/li][li]5 Shot Burst[/li][li]Pump Shotgun[/li][li]Semi Auto Shotgun[/li][li]Laser[/li][li]Bolt Action[/li][li]Spooling[/li][li]Beam[/li][li]Akimbo[/li][li]Slower RoF moving to higher RoF after first # bullets[/li][li]Higher RoF moving to slower RoF after first # bullets[/li][li]Projectile (crossbow)[/li][li]Rockets[/li][li]Nades[/li][li]Shield[/li][/ul]

I still believe that the best way to build Merc identity is to have 1 weapon locked to each Merc that no other Merc can use and then a selection of weapons via loadout cards that can be shared between all Mercs. Obviously the down side to this is that you will need to produce skins, attachments and weapon for each Merc that is added to the game. However, I do feel having a weapon that people like on a certain Merc is a great way to get people into the “Gotta Catch Em All” mentality. Seeing Skyhammers rifle on a Thunder or Proxys shotgun on a Rhino just feels odd to me.

When it comes to the cards…
I look forward to seeing where you go with the customisation. I still wish you would go down the route of merging cards and building up rarities rather than simply getting parts for a card. With some of the new cards added to the game I have to say I am quite disappointed… Some of the perks just seem to be useless on certain Mercs. The new animation to get cards is better even though it does not seem to work correctly on 1440p and also seems to only run at 30fps making it look really jerky. Seems like a step in the right direction I just really hope you manage to build some interesting systems around the card creation and not simply scrap and buy.

Some other small changes…
I like that the EV now speeds up even more with more people following it. I like that normal weapons seem to be much more effective vs the EV now. I like that you have further defined the difference between the Mercs and Weapons when it comes to player speed and health. I like that you slow down less after doing a long jump and that after a long jump + 2 wall bounces there is no slow down at all. I dislike that it takes so long to transmit an objective, I dislike the extended time it takes to switch weapons and swing a melee weapon. I dislike that you can no longer shoot though glass but you still get the hit sounds. I like that you toned down/removed the horrible radio effect on the voices. I dislike that the respawn times are still mirrored on Stopwatch mode. I dislike that the spawn waves are now 30 seconds on Stopwatch. I like the shotgun buff at close range.

In conclusion…
Making Mercs stronger via abilities seems to add to the problem of multiple of the same Merc on a given team. For that reason alone, I still wish we had a Draft mode by default. fighting vs multiple Skyhammers, Auras and Naders is simply not fun to me. Also, having 6 Sawbones in a match just really reduces the Merc identity as its no longer a stand out in a match. It also becomes harder to know who you are righting against and thus removes some of the instant rush I get when facing someone I recognise. I know that most people seem to disagree with that but hey, just my opinion.

So yea… I could go on but I am too tired >.<


(spookify) #2

You would like the shotgun buff haha… Aura’s shot gun was two shoting people and I was fraggee!

Fragger got more hp right to 150 and looks like his gun got buffed. Pheniox still blows. Nader is annoying
Fraggers nades rock!
It no longer feels like a shooter… ripping faces…

Please do a hot fix on server lag when people join!!!

Dome sucks and I dont think any other maps got looked at…

No creative objective!

I just dont know what to say anymore…


(Glottis-3D) #3

gonna add my thoughts here, some of them mirror Pixel’s.

most hate:
-slowpoke weapon switch. this is now a game for 60 year olds? even me is not that old. hate this very much.
-OBVIOUS spam increase. it was something, that could be easily foreseen. why? well, because some mercs already were all-spam. just with less dmg.
-all the broken maps not adressed. still waiting for bridge, waterloo, trainyrad, whitechapel to get rid of chokepoints and spawn-rape issues. this needs to be changed via layout. no spawntimers will fix that.
-30 seconds of def spawn broke some maps ever harder because of travel times not adressed accoding to spawntimes. and again this is an OBVIOUS issue. spawntimes and traveltimes need to be adressed together for every single obj at every single map. you cannot just go with “lets make it 30 and see - maybe that will fix everything??”


(tokamak) #4

The long HE charges for side-objectives have always been a problem. We need smaller explosives with shorter fuses for these things.


(Szakalot) #5

Yes!

I’d love to see C4 for secondaries (~20seconds), and oldschool biga** bundle of dynamite for the primaries (50sec)

With the current pace of the game, 50 seconds is such a huge amount of time, it feels like blowing up secondaries has limited effect on gameplay, so nobody bothers.

Why try and blow up mg ramp on whitechapel, if the EV will be long gone past that phase, before the thing goes up in the air? Thus, nobody ever plants C4 on that thing, it gets built; and thats it.


(Glottis-3D) #6

[QUOTE=Szakalot;514411]Yes!

I’d love to see C4 for secondaries (~20seconds), and oldschool biga** bundle of dynamite for the primaries (50sec)

With the current pace of the game, 50 seconds is such a huge amount of time, it feels like blowing up secondaries has limited effect on gameplay, so nobody bothers.

Why try and blow up mg ramp on whitechapel, if the EV will be long gone past that phase, before the thing goes up in the air? Thus, nobody ever plants C4 on that thing, it gets built; and thats it.[/QUOTE]

100% agreed.


(tokamak) #7

Or give them health bars and let their integrity depend on their health.

So if Nader, Fletcher and Rhino start busting in the doors with their weaponry then first we’re going to be seeing holes appear in them. People can repair them (from the other side) at the same time but the lower the health the less cover they’ll have for it.

Same for the doors in the first objective in Underground. 100% is full door 100-50% is door with some holes and 50%-1% is doors that are barely standing and easy to shoot through but still impassable. 0% and the doors are gone and the way is open.

The radioactive gas pump in Terminal can have a similar mechanic. At 100% integrity the entire tunnel is free to pass. At 0% integrity the tunnel is lethal. But anywhere in between 0% and 100% corresponds directly to the amount of damage the players experience while passing through it. A 20% pump may get some players across but barely alive (which would allow for one defender to easily pick thhem off). That means that either one player can sneak through it or a group covered by a medic can do little sneak operation.

At 80% or 90% the players will find some damage but depending on the urgency in the mission they might just skip ahead and forget about the pump altogether.

The fun part is that while these things are implemented SD can start finding new ways for (new) mercs to interact with side objectives. Maybe Vasily or Red Eye can make the door ‘see-through’ by using their scanning equipment on it (allowing Arty and Kyra to fire their laser-guided equipment through it). Stoker could set the material on fire.

Then there’s maybe engineers who could reinforce the objective, making it more sturdy and even harder to complete than normal. Would be funny if there was an engineer merc who could instantly put the broken pump into overcharge mode, pump back all the gas in the tunnel and instantly wipe out any attackers passing through.

Bushwacker could even ‘arm’ doors and gates by attaching his turret to the doors/walls and make it an weaponised door.

It’s tons of work but once we no longer define these obstacles as fixed objectives that can only be modified with HE charges then you can slowly keep adding new ways to interact with them without breaking the entire map.

EDIT:
Forcing the heavy guns to expend their ammo on objectives also makes ammo dealers more important. A team without field ops might not want to start blasing away at objectives and rather chose the cost-effective but slower HE charge. In that way field ops suddenly become ‘enablers’ that allow a team more strategic options as they can afford to spend more.


(ToonBE) #8

I like that I can put music off thx for that.

I have only played Fragger so far:
I like that his HP is now 150
I think he moves qlightly slower which is no problem
I like that the nades are more powerfull BUT they can benefit from more damage power: when I cook a nade and throw it right on someone who is shooting at me from a rooftop I want that person do be killed certainly when it is a medic with 100HP… just feels an underpowered ability (and it is the only one!!)

dome feels alright… Maps overall are decent, but not a single map gives me the woohoo feeling when loading it.

the card animation is way too jerky and not realy giving something extra.

about the sounds:
I wish some guns sounded more powerfull
I want to hear footsteps more clearly!! give me something to turn up that volume or to eliminate environment sounds
I like the new voices there are a bit changed I think

Lobby
Is it possible to stay in the lobby and then press start match and I am directly in game? I mean it would be good that the game is loading behind the lobby screen. I can then chat a bit or w/e but staring at a cricle saying loading is annoying.

Overall:
I like the update. Maybe mercs needs some more depth still. And make the nades of fragger more powerfull please! Nade thrown at someone’s feet/head with 100hp = kill


(Glottis-3D) #9

that is because they are not decent =))))


(Szakalot) #10

I think, outside of few godawful chokepoints, perhaps there is little too much anti-map bias , that is more a consequence of run&gun playstyle, and lack of teamplay on pubs; rather than actual problems with the maps.

Whitechapel, Terminal 1st obj, even Underground 1st obj (though still terrible): they all play vastly different in a gather/scrim, compared to a random pub. Defending terminal wall on gather, while being slowly bunkered in by crossfires from all sides definitely gave me the ET feel.

So while I agree that maps are definitely not done, perhaps we see only the symptom (map is not fun to play -> map sucks), whereas the problem is hiding in teamplay (lack of), and no concern for staying alive.


(Violator) #11

[QUOTE=Szakalot;514419]I think, outside of few godawful chokepoints, perhaps there is little too much anti-map bias , that is more a consequence of run&gun playstyle, and lack of teamplay on pubs; rather than actual problems with the maps.

Whitechapel, Terminal 1st obj, even Underground 1st obj (though still terrible): they all play vastly different in a gather/scrim, compared to a random pub. Defending terminal wall on gather, while being slowly bunkered in by crossfires from all sides definitely gave me the ET feel.

So while I agree that maps are definitely not done, perhaps we see only the symptom (map is not fun to play -> map sucks), whereas the problem is hiding in teamplay (lack of), and no concern for staying alive.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a very good point, not much thought has been given to pub play at all imho and that is all most of us are testing. When I’m with players like Pixel, or my old teammate Sun it does get a bit of that old ET feel, but most of the time I feel like I’m playing solo as, especially on attack, everyone tends to run off and do their own thing. If I see certain players I will try and group up with them but its usually only a group of 2 or 3 if that happens. In pub defense players do tend to group up a bit more regularly due to the aforementioned chokes.


(onYn) #12

Well I am already sick of it, but here we go: I (and probably everyone else as well) want this to be a team based FPS with a huge focus on team play. I honestly don´t understand what some auras, weapon balances and what can actually do for the fun we experience while playing. Any kind of ability changes and addition are at max a extra that adds up to the fun, and opens up more tactical options, but working on them won´t actually increase the fun we have while playing.

As long as the random casualization in order to attract more people, what wont work out in the long therm, at least if DB wants to be more then a 0815 F2P FPS, doesn´t stop this will never get decent enough game to be played for more then 1 hour. In DB I experience the same motivational drop as if I would play a halfway decent smartphone app. On the other side I see things being changed, updated and innovated, to a level that usually requires either a huge production team (like blizzard) or a great fundamental idea that is build in a working frame (indie games). I don´t see any of those two being the case tho, and wonder all the time: where are we going?

A thing I actually wonder about, is what motivation is driving SD´s game developers when working on DB? Are they fighting for there jobs? Do they just want to do something that gives them money, or allows them to fulfill there desire to do art in any kind of way? Because I feel like the most important drive for a game developer should be, to create a game that you would enjoy yourself a ton, what I kinda don´t feel being the case…

PS: maybe I could play the game once in a while, without my antivirus shouting at me that it´s a virus…


(Toomic) #13

Is the latest version of the game flagged as a virus? If so which antivirus are you using?


(Szakalot) #14

@Onyn

care to rephrase this consciousnes stream, cause I have no idea what you are saying : (


(Anti) #15

[QUOTE=Szakalot;514433]@Onyn

care to rephrase this consciousnes stream, cause I have no idea what you are saying : ([/QUOTE]

Yea, have to admit I’m struggling a little bit too with this one :slight_smile:


(onYn) #16

My brain just sucks, if it doesn´t seem to make any sense, maybe it really doesn´t :slight_smile:


(xdc) #17

[QUOTE=Szakalot;514419]I think, outside of few godawful chokepoints, perhaps there is little too much anti-map bias , that is more a consequence of run&gun playstyle, and lack of teamplay on pubs; rather than actual problems with the maps.

Whitechapel, Terminal 1st obj, even Underground 1st obj (though still terrible): they all play vastly different in a gather/scrim, compared to a random pub. Defending terminal wall on gather, while being slowly bunkered in by crossfires from all sides definitely gave me the ET feel.

So while I agree that maps are definitely not done, perhaps we see only the symptom (map is not fun to play -> map sucks), whereas the problem is hiding in teamplay (lack of), and no concern for staying alive.[/QUOTE]

i agree this is partially correct. my biggest grudge is the movement in DB, diminishing returns on jumping is too strong, air control is too low, long jumping causes you to slow down after completion, wall jumping forward slows you down comapred to sprinting forward.

there should be a crouch slide to slide under walls etc

movement combined with the map feels undynamic. there are no proxy mine jumps, grenade jumps, rocket jumps, etc the game feels more like running stickmen shooting pellets


(BomBaKlaK) #18

pew pew pew !


(Sun_Sheng) #19

[QUOTE=Szakalot;514419]I think, outside of few godawful chokepoints, perhaps there is little too much anti-map bias , that is more a consequence of run&gun playstyle, and lack of teamplay on pubs; rather than actual problems with the maps.

Whitechapel, Terminal 1st obj, even Underground 1st obj (though still terrible): they all play vastly different in a gather/scrim, compared to a random pub. Defending terminal wall on gather, while being slowly bunkered in by crossfires from all sides definitely gave me the ET feel.

So while I agree that maps are definitely not done, perhaps we see only the symptom (map is not fun to play -> map sucks), whereas the problem is hiding in teamplay (lack of), and no concern for staying alive.[/QUOTE]
Agreed to an extent, I think the lack of teamplay though is a major flaw of the game itself, exacerbated by the latest patch i:e there is no reason to do anything except play TDM because meds who should be reviving have been nerfed to hell and back, and offensive classes have been boosted even more. Support classes don’t really exist because everyone can do everything. The worrying thing about that, is that if the patch is to take things to extremes and then roll back to a happy medium, that will still leave a massive disparity between meds that need lots of health to survive running into a firefight, revive, and get back out again alive, and Rambo Fraggers with 150hp that even if dropped back to say 120 will still have more health than the meds have, plus better weapons.

As for the maps, they have about as much freedom of movement as the original Streetfighter game. Lots of locations but no real choice as to where you fight. Yes, they would feel better with increased teamplay as in a clan match situation, but the lack of freedom of choice seriously restricts any creative thinking and at that point, the only thing stopping a series of full holds is unbalanced teams. Once clans start playing and practising tactics on maps this linear, it’ll be a slaughter. Airstrikes and Arty are relatively ineffective because you see them coming a mile off and just get out of the way, snipers can be countered by another sniper who, being camped on defence should always get the first shot. Any other class is likely to get ripped apart by cross-firing fraggers with a Nader backup.

Attack works best when the offensive team can overpower the defence. In simple terms that tends to come from forcing the defence into at least two groups so that you can then attack 6v4 or 3v2 or any variant. If it’s 6v6 then unless the teams are unbalanced, the defence should always win because it is under cover, protected, med packs on the floor, and with guns pointed at anywhere the attackers show their faces. The only map I can think of that has the option of splitting the defence is Dome, after that, a camped defence should pretty much win every time. Except for pubs where tactics go out the window and the defence is invariably split by Rambos who go in search of frags rather than hold a defensive line

Edit: I guess one option to work around that, would be to change the spawn times and travel distances so much that you give the attackers an advantage that way, but that’s just a band aid on a broken leg. In a footballing context we’re currently playing everything down the middle with no wingers to get the crosses in :frowning:


(BomBaKlaK) #20

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sun_Sheng again.