Weapon Handling and Feedback


(BioSnark) #1

The weapon handling is bland. I know a significant segment of the current fanbase wants it to feel bland but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s bland and that fact isn’t balanced with strong movement element. Possibly behind movement responsiveness, weapon feedback is the first and most basic feedback a FPS will give to the player. It’s going to be how the game is most immediately judged. Does it feel powerful and satisfying to shoot a thing with a thing?

A projectile weapon has a lot of advantages. You can throw out a projectile and it takes skill or experience to lead a target such that your shot connects. There’s inherent satisfaction in landing that shot. A low RoF high damage hitscan weapon takes skill and timing to land a shot. There’s inherent an gameplay value (high damage) and satisfaction in landing that shot, too. A high RoF hitscan weapon pretty much does damage over time at the center of the crosshair. This needs some combination of powerful audiovisual or gameplay feed back, challenging handling and/or a difficult moving target. Extraction NEEDS at least one of those for the gunplay to feel satisfying.

Weapon feedback and handling breaks down in a couple ways:

[ul]
[li]Shots per kill. How many bullets does it take to kill a thing? In ETQW, the main difference between a lacerator and an assault rifle is that the former feels like each shot does damage while the latter feels like it deals damage over time. Based on audiovisual feedback, automatics in Extraction feel like an ET:QW assault rifle* but with even more bullets.[/li]

[li]Time per kill. How quickly does a weapon kill a thing? Well, I’m going to skip over this one because it’s so gameplay focused. Not to be too obvious but this is very separate from the first point.[/li]

[li]Does it change a thing in anyway? This can be terrain deformation such as splintering away cover, causing stagger animations or applying physical knock back on enemies. I’m assuming the Splash Damage won’t do the first two for tech reasons and is probably too conservative to even use the last, even on shotguns and explosives. I could be happily mistaken, however.[/li]

[li]Does a gun recoil when it fires? A laser emits cute little photons. A gun conventionally uses a small explosive to move an object down wind carrying enough force to do damage. There is very little recoil on Extraction’s automatic weapons. These are more like constant stream lasers that have finally been made potent enough in miniaturized form to kill a human after short sustained exposure. They don’t convey much feeling. Please consider exponentially increasing recoil over firing time if you feel you must pander to your current player base as much as you are with low recoils. Also, most of the recoil that does exist, manifests in sights or optics where it conveniently pushes the target into the weapon barrel and sight models. [/li]
Recoil on slow firing weapons glides aim up gently after each shot. These weapons gracefully ease a projectile out of the well oiled gun. They don’t explode upward. These weapons should kick up with a strong initial velocity that slows over time.

[li]Does the weapon look and sound cool when you shoot it? These are pretty much all contemporary-ish small arms so there’s only so far you can go. They are decent. There’s no shiny plasma bursts or particle beams. Some of the sounds don’t convey as much power or aren’t as crisp as I would like but I don’t want to get into specifics with this point, particularly as some seem to be repeated sfx, unintentionally.[/li]

[li]Does it look like the gunshot damages a thing? Is there gore or debris being emitted from the site of impact? I can’t tell because I play on low settings and don’t see much. Maybe it’s awesome and makes up for a lot…[/li][/ul]

*As an aside, the ETQW AR felt like an unreliable toy gun because of weak SFX that played at inconsistent intervals

sorry for possible spelling errors :wink:


(Smooth) #2

We know that some weapons feel a bit too puny and we’re still working on improving this.

A lot of what we have in-game right now is place-holder and will be updated over time. This includes things like new audio, effects, animation etc.

We’re also hoping to start introducing slightly more unique and varied weapons as we continue to update the game.


(Alchemy) #3

I disagree with the OP on points 3 and 4, not every game with an assault rifle needs super high recoil. I believe this game is being made into a more old school arcady shooter, run and gun, and a TTK to have a time to react but low enough to still kill 2-3 people in 1 clip.

What I do agree with is that most of the guns need a few more passes of polish, audio , looks, animation, muzzle flash etc etc. Also some nice cashshop/drops of weapon skins. :smiley: So they can make some coin.


(INF3RN0) #4

I’m hoping to see a lot more weapon variety soon :).


(trickykungfu) #5

i can give you my BF Beta Key!


(chippy) #6

Personally I’ve not had that much to say about the weapons so far. Every change that have been made in each update have had it’s own ups and downs however after every update I’ve felt it becoming better and better.

The only thing I’d like so see different is the audio. A bit more “oompf”. I really believe that would help the feeling of some of the weapons “feeling” under powered. Take T-Rats SMG for example. It’s woefully useless on long ranges but up close it can be quite the beast. But the sound doesn’t do it justice. I know it’s a pretty small SMG and it can’t sound like a bazooka but… A bit more “oompf” instead of the current “plinks” would make a huge difference.


(.N.E.R.D.) #7

And the earth should shake when a soldier shoots his gun :wink:


(INF3RN0) #8

I didn’t mean 10000 guns that vary from one base model. I meant variety in how they actually work.


(Ashog) #9

My impression (also from dev chats) is that it it not fair to talk automatic weapons as one. Assault rifles have iirc less spread and recoil (especially in IS mode) than SMG’s. Tbh SMGs are a bit crazy at the moment. The recoil in IS for SMGs is unfairly high so they are barely usable in this way.

The worst thing (especially visible on SMGs) is the horizontal recoil. Dear SD, please, remove the horizontal recoil component from the game!! It has no sense in such a non-realistic game as DB and no place in a game that aims to be comp-oriented. Horizontal recoil is random (e.g. left to right to left) and is impossible to counter/correct for, on the contrary to the vertical recoil (always upwards) which is ok for a player coming in from just about any game, not even to mention SD games. IMHO introduction of horizontal random recoil component was one of the few worst evar ideas from the start of this game. As someone well put in TS, random is always bad for proplay. Totally agree with him.

Hope Smooth/Anti will look at this or at least discuss this issue with us!


(acutepuppy) #10

I think horizontal recoil is fine as long as it’s non-existent for the first few shots. Burst fire should be a part of the game.


(Kiris) #11

Burst Fire? Sorry but no. That’s just not what SD games are about. If I wanted burst fire i’d play CS


(Rex) #12

No shouldn’t! :rolleyes:


(onYn) #13

No burstfire, and I know it´s too late, but why is this ammount of recoil needed… little too much for me


(INF3RN0) #14

It’s about having both. If you don’t want to use them then you don’t have to, but why shouldn’t they exist if others want them as an alternative?


(acutepuppy) #15

I’m sorry, you’re misunderstanding me. I don’t mean a “3 round burst” gun.

I mean controlling your fire-rate, not always holding down shoot. It doesn’t have to be a huge random penalty after 3 shots or anything.

I think many of the weapons are pretty good about this as is.


(Kiris) #16

I’m confused. How do you make a gun that has both? If a gun has little recoil then burst shooting is not necessary. You could have both but what is the point? You’re putting yourself at a disadvantage if you’re burst shooting in that case. You can only have one or the other.


(Rex) #17

[QUOTE=acutepuppy;473714]I’m sorry, you’re misunderstanding me. I don’t mean a “3 round burst” gun.

I mean controlling your fire-rate, not always holding down shoot. It doesn’t have to be a huge penalty after 3 shots, just something like after 5, you need to stop shooting for a moment to regain full accuracy.[/QUOTE]

Sounds awful.


(Nail) #18

as long as handguns are the most powerful weapons other than sniper rifles, they’re all a joke. Handguns that do 34 damage at LONG range are ridiculous, especially revolvers, the least accurate gun outside smooth bore muskets.


(attack) #19

i like the idea with muskets. i want it :smiley:


(attack) #20

what annoys me is the unpredictable recoil i cant get used to it :confused:
ther is no musklememorie to build :frowning: