We need forced balancing

(AlphaUT) #81

The only two reasons for me to switch are.

  1. I have friends on the other team, which in fact I will be longer care about the balance.

  2. If that’s the day I feel peace/calm, I will switch for the balance even if I am already with my friends.

Had a time which we had 5 man + 3 other cooperative random strangers, we were doing 8 Thunder, 8 fletchers, Shotgun AuraS + Shotgun Proxy.

Yes, it was a cancer game, especially 8 thunderS.

We were in the same room when we did those things. I admire whoever stayed the whole match with us, try to against us. I truly admire them. If I were them, I would’ve quit as soon as I see 8 Thunders.

(Icecoal) #82

I already gave up on balance , but I always switch to the losing side. Nothing feels more satisfying to revert a stomp into a win and laugh at the saltiness of the suddenly losing team

(blonk) #83

[quote=“Jostabeere;213653”]
The difference between 3vs1 because your team don’t push with you, can’t be fixed. But the issue of 3vs1 when you simply have no teammates can be fixed.[/quote]

Very well put. TF2 (at least used to) automatically swap players if the counts differed too much, I see no reason why it shouldn’t be the same in DB. Crap like this is what scares new players away, when they are suddenly getting spawncamped because everyone except them has left because they weren’t able to go Vasilly and sit uselessly in a corner, so the new players then leave and never come back.

I suspect though we will never see this implemented because “CMM LOL”

(LifeupOmega) #84

Because people in TF2 would instantly switch to spectator or leave when autobalanced. Such a good system, really. It also lead to the issue of no one actually caring about the objective, because it could be turned around on them in a moment’s notice - no one likes the autobalance in TF2, most people I knew from its golden days disabled it on their servers because it had a domino effect that would leave servers empty.

(blonk) #85

No, people who want to play with friends would do that, your random dude probably wouldn’t give a toss or even notice half the time. Besides people do that in DB already if they are on the losing team or can’t play with friends, that or they just leave the server, so I hardly see that it would be any worse. There’s already a cascading effect when the teams get massively unbalanced, so something to address this (even if it’s CMM) would be welcomed.

(Szakalot) #86

The game already sorts people by hidden MMR which apparently uses a combination of factors such as player level and performance from the last 25games.

My problem with it is the inconsistency of the last 25 games. It doesn’t take into account what servers people play on, whether they play with friends, etc. etc. What you end up with is a 25games-based stat that constantly fluctuates without pointing to the player’s right skill level - one size fits none.

E.g. I can play fletcher for 25 games and stomp my way through some non-minlvl servers. If i then go to a minlvl20 and start using vassili, ill be doing at best 10% of the work/score I did before.

I’m baffled as to why SD doesn’t use ALL-time stats as part of the hidden MMR rating, as a player’s performance over hundreds of hours is surely indicative of their skill.

In this context teamwork is also a skill, obviously contributing to wins. So players with high w/l ratio are very likely good teamplayers.

I just find this interpretation that its the players fault overly simplistic. We have all kinds of players in the game, and its a general consensus of everyone that balance is bad.

I generally am a try-hard pubber, and too often its either stomp/be stomped scenario. Who is to blame for this CONSTANT stomp/be stomped unbalance? I don’t see how you get from bad pub experience to ‘its the players fault’.

(watsyurdeal) #87

[quote=“Szakalot;214134”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;213654”]
And what exactly is sorting people by their aim and average kda going to do? Stacking, that’s it.

People who aren’t contributing are basically going to be fodder, and people who do well get sorted. Why are they doing well? Coincidence? Luck? Actual ability? Who knows, but a system like this would not possibly be able to quantify skill without a long track record or history of the player. And if you’re going to make a system like that this game might as well just be Ranked only.
[/quote]

The game already sorts people by hidden MMR which apparently uses a combination of factors such as player level and performance from the last 25games.

My problem with it is the inconsistency of the last 25 games. It doesn’t take into account what servers people play on, whether they play with friends, etc. etc. What you end up with is a 25games-based stat that constantly fluctuates without pointing to the player’s right skill level - one size fits none.

E.g. I can play fletcher for 25 games and stomp my way through some non-minlvl servers. If i then go to a minlvl20 and start using vassili, ill be doing at best 10% of the work/score I did before.

I’m baffled as to why SD doesn’t use ALL-time stats as part of the hidden MMR rating, as a player’s performance over hundreds of hours is surely indicative of their skill.

In this context teamwork is also a skill, obviously contributing to wins. So players with high w/l ratio are very likely good teamplayers.

I just find this interpretation that its the players fault overly simplistic. We have all kinds of players in the game, and its a general consensus of everyone that balance is bad.

I generally am a try-hard pubber, and too often its either stomp/be stomped scenario. Who is to blame for this CONSTANT stomp/be stomped unbalance? I don’t see how you get from bad pub experience to ‘its the players fault’.[/quote]

To answer ALL of that, the answer is simple, cause we’d basically get Ranked. Which is what we should have alongside community servers with a browser. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And I get that because ultimately it’s up to the players and the team as a whole to get their shit in gear and play correctly, no amount of match making is going to be able to guarantee a fair fight. You can have a perfectly balanced game at the start, and once it begins it’s a roll, cause one team wasn’t prepared or ready for the strat used. Come on now you know better than that.

(Mister__Wiggles) #88

I agree there should be a system in place where it autobalances and restarts but then you have the issue of being in the second half of a stopwatch game and because you clutched the first half people get salty and rage quit and then the 2nd half is just terribly unbalanced. Restarting the whole game will just make game time way too long, one of dbs good points it’s the ease of which you can just jump in a game if you got a spare few minutes, possibly extending that average game time by double will seem like a drag for the more casual of gamers. It’s a nightmare to fix and I’m almost certain CMM won’t fix this one bit, just isn’t enough players to get a almost balanced game, games with triple the active players struggle with mm so db isn’t in a good place.

(Amerika) #89

I don’t like auto-balance at all if it’s trying to balance based on skill…that should never be a thing. But if it’s a huge advantage on one side due to a ton of players leaving then the system should shuffle if it can’t replace the players pretty quickly (ala other games with similar systems). However, it should give everyone on the server a win bonus whether they win or not in regards to credits and it wouldn’t be awful to also not count a loss as an actual loss for the few people who might care about their record (I’m sure there is somebody who cares).

That would fix a lot of issues with player number balance and make sure everyone is properly compensated and gives them a reason to finish the game out.

(LifeupOmega) #90

Honestly, just realise that public cannot be balanced without completely fucking up stuff for players, and move on to ranked when it opens if you want fairer games. This is getting stale. Expecting balance in a public, non-skill restricted environment is asinine.