as i noticed in the cup last day (which we won :D).
waterloo first stage is maybe too hard.
one problem is the capable spawn.
the attackers get no real advantage by cap it because the defenders have the height advantage and can throw nades and shoot from above.
smbdy some ideas?
waterlo
attack
(attack)
#1
Violator
(Violator)
#2
I made this comment before but no-one agreed with me :). As a counter though, its very hard to get in and disarm a plant after the fwd spawn is capped, you just get mown down dropping down from the wall or the balconies. There is a fairly big distance saving for attackers as well. For defence, the left balcony with the MG is a very strong position if you get a med, sniper & fldops up there, though the opposite building with the railings is similar for attack or whoever controls it.
At least you don’t have to blow two barriers now :).
attack
(attack)
#3
[QUOTE=Violator;468745]I made this comment before but no-one agreed with me :). As a counter though, its very hard to get in and disarm a plant after the fwd spawn is capped, you just get mown down dropping down from the wall or the balconies. There is a fairly big distance saving for attackers as well. For defence, the left balcony with the MG is a very strong position if you get a med, sniper & fldops up there, though the opposite building with the railings is similar for attack or whoever controls it.
At least you don’t have to blow two barriers now :).[/QUOTE]
im sure i did write this month ago too(sry that i have not search for your post,but so many posts…)
but you are right. i totally agree which your post 
btw the 2 walls was the biggest … i seen in a long time 
attack
(attack)
#4
[QUOTE=Violator;468745]I made this comment before but no-one agreed with me :). As a counter though, its very hard to get in and disarm a plant after the fwd spawn is capped, you just get mown down dropping down from the wall or the balconies. There is a fairly big distance saving for attackers as well. For defence, the left balcony with the MG is a very strong position if you get a med, sniper & fldops up there, though the opposite building with the railings is similar for attack or whoever controls it.
At least you don’t have to blow two barriers now :).[/QUOTE]
i still say there are too many mgs on the map
twincannon
(twincannon)
#6
Some of us talked about this on TS for a while after yesterdays games. The general consensus was that it’s pretty silly that the forward spawn is questionable as to whether it’s even a good thing for the attackers to have. Without the forward spawn, the defense comes from one area, lower only. With the forward spawn, defense drops down from above from 4 different locations (one of which has an MG) and takes only slightly longer to get back in position. Either way the defense gets back extremely fast once they’ve spawned. Of course the attackers do spawn much closer which probably does outweigh the advantage the defense gets (although it does make the tunnel sort of unusable).
Also it’s really easy for the defense to push up and see exactly where the attackers are coming from. There’s not many ways to change routes once you’ve been found out, like there is in other maps (i.e. Camden). For example, if defenders see you’re in tunnel, you have to either push out of a chokepoint when the enemy knows you’re there, or go all the way back to spawn and start over if you want to diverge from that path. It’s a lose/lose situation for the attacker and I think this is the main reason this objective requires so much coordination to take.
As for the other objectives, I don’t think they’re too bad although I kind of wish they were separated more. There’s HUGE chunks of this map that see basically zero gameplay because objectives 2 and 3 are in the same exact location. It’d be interesting to see objective 2 pulled back more by the road or something.
slanir
(slanir)
#7
remove the MGs and make defense spawn further back when the forward spawn is taken in my opinion!
I also feel that the choke point after the first objective is completed is a little bit too easy to abuse and stall the attacking team.
Another idea would be to remove the staircase up the building on the left side (seen from attacking PoV) and make the path further on the side so the defenders could jump over the wall into their original spawn or through a hole in the roof of the garage next to it (when forward spawn is taken).
Protekt1
(Protekt1)
#10
I’m a bit indifferent about the first part. I think it could use some alterations. My big issue about waterloo is the second part. I dislike how close all the objectives are to each other. I haven’t had a competitive game get that far yet since I haven’t played in many and the ones I have have been decided by who can get past the first objective lol…
But I definitely see capping the forward spawn as the first hard step to getting a win since it forces the defenders to come out from 2 easily easily covered areas. The little apartment can be a death trap as well as the area on the other side above the gate.
stealth6
(stealth6)
#11
[QUOTE=Protekt1;468846]I’m a bit indifferent about the first part. I think it could use some alterations. My big issue about waterloo is the second part. I dislike how close all the objectives are to each other. I haven’t had a competitive game get that far yet since I haven’t played in many and the ones I have have been decided by who can get past the first objective lol…
But I definitely see capping the forward spawn as the first hard step to getting a win since it forces the defenders to come out from 2 easily easily covered areas. The little apartment can be a death trap as well as the area on the other side above the gate.[/QUOTE]
Agree with this, would like to see 1 c4 objective removed at the end or remove the hack obj.
Violator
(Violator)
#12
I think the main problem with this map atm is defence tend to get spawncamped on the last objective, now that they have effectively only two exits (the junk barricade and the tunnel, which leads to the barricade exit anyway). There are the side steps to the top floor but these get locked down by the tunnel now. Both exits are fairly easy to control by attack. How about a ladder to get to the hack floor from the back (more direct but slow), or non-spawncampable side steps on the other (escalator) side?
Seanza
(Seanza)
#13
Not sure if you were participating at the time, but there used to be escalators from the back leading into the middle where the 2 pillars are next to the hack console (used to be a wall instead of pillars there too) and it was wayyy too easy for defence to hold the hack console. Good alternative would be to push the defence spawn stairs further back closer to the actual spawn point so they could access it via a corridor on the top.
Violator
(Violator)
#14
[QUOTE=Seanza;468888]Not sure if you were participating at the time, but there used to be escalators from the back leading into the middle where the 2 pillars are next to the hack console (used to be a wall instead of pillars there too) and it was wayyy too easy for defence to hold the hack console.[/QUOTE].
Yeah I remember that (I’ve been here since the start :D) it was too OP for def, together with that left exit which is now boarded up near the steps. I wasn’t talking about that - a ladder is slow and only allows one player at a time. The hack obj isn’t as bad as attack are committed upstairs and can’t spawnrape as effectively. Maybe only have the ladder for the last obj (constructable).
+1 for this. Def are now funnelled into one spot (junk barricade / crates) unless they can sneak up the side steps. Making the side steps not visible from the tunnel (moving them back) would be a great move.
Ows about this then -
Before - def choked to one spot:
After - steps as Seanza suggested + open up the top left balcony again (I thought this was good for attack and defence, not sure why it was closed). Move the tunnel exit to the middle and add some crates for def as well.
