Was Phantom Really OP?

(Raziza) #1

In light of the recent minuscule buff to Phantom, it brings up the discussion once again about if he was actually every OP, and what should be done.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve all heard by now the arguments of people wanting him to revert back to his previous state, but I’ll just put forth the biggest one:
He is a slayer through and through. For a merc with no objective potential, ammo, or healing, you’d think that in the very least he would be great at harassing and killing the enemy team. That is without a doubt his role, so why was it punished by with a nerf?

Phantom to me is/was still usable after the nerf, however when he was considered OP I had not played with or against him. However what I did notice is that I have to REALLY get myself in a mindset and play competitively if I want to succeed with Phantom, and score high.

To make this simpler: Do you think he was actually OP, do you think he should be buffed, and do you think a slayer class like Phantom (especially pre-nerf) has a place in Dirty Bomb?

(Raziza) #2

Also, this video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L3xb-GNFdjM by PixelTwitch pretty much sums up my side of the argument at least.

(Amerika) #3

He was never considered OP…at least not in a competitive sense. He was considered cheap. A lesser experienced/skilled player could easily rush down other players, even ones who are significantly more experienced, and get kills they didn’t really deserve. That’s why these forums, SD’s forums, Reddit, Steam reviews and other forms of DB communication went crazy on Phantom’s release.

People sometimes confuse something that is cheap with it being overpowered. Those players who went melee only still didn’t do as well as you could do if you actually used your guns. Not even close. But they did well enough to really aggravate almost the entirety of the DB playerbase to the point of people leaving the game very quickly.

(Crash) #4

Because people confuse video games with real life.

Perspective my peoples. Just because a 2 year old train wrecks you with phantom doesnt mean you should turn into a 2 year old and alt-F4 and never return. Laugh about the beyblade, give a hearty gg, play another server or hang around. Isnt the game “casual” outside of comp mode and scrims?

(Raziza) #5

That is a lot more understandable. However I still don’t think the nerf should of punished Phantom as much as it did. In my humble opinion only about two of the nerfs seem “needed”, that being cloak time and damage eating into your health while cloaked. The Katana is debatable, and his cloak being extremely visible now was not necessary especially considering that his only real advantage is his cloak.

That being said, I just recently pulled a 37/17 game with him and getting the highest score on both teams, he isn’t unusable, but definitely situational.

(Gh0st1e) #6

@Amerika I have to disagree with you on what you call OP.

When the skill to use something is significantly less than the skill required to beat it, then that something is OP. OP in video game terms signifies that imbalance.

You didn’t hear people in the competitive community complain about Phantom only because he served no competitive purpose.

He was really only used as a pub stomper and didn’t have a counter so of course you will hear an outcry for that.

(LifeupOmega) #7

He was a crutch for players that let them do better than they should have been doing in pubs, but was never OP. This is because pubs just lack the coordination to take out Phantom, and so he picked players off one by one and people didn’t stop to think that if they actually tried to play as a team they’d most likely kill him.

You soaked up all damage, two shot your enemy, and ran away. Repeat. It felt cheap.

(Amerika) #8

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You repeated what I said about him not being OP in a competitive sense and then went on to say he was a pubstomper. He didn’t “stomp” pubs as melee only. He simply got a lot of cheap kills that frustrated people and caused a lot of outrage which resulted in the weird series of nerfs that we saw. He also allowed a lot of players who were less skilled at aiming in DB to do better than they should have which further aggravated people.

I view overpowered in an overall sense. He would have been OP if, when played by most players, was constantly leading in every match regardless of the environment (pub, scrim, league play). He wasn’t. So I don’t consider him OP. It could be argued that his melee active frames on right click and no limit on turn speed combined with his HP (both personal and refractive armor) plus him being extremely hard to see while charging at you was OP. But overall, as a merc in use, he was not OP overall in pubs or matches.

(Grave_Knight) #9

No, he wasn’t OP, and yes the nerf over nerfed him. HOWEVER, to call this buff minuscule is to not realize “not running” is an option. Last time I played him I felt like I was playing pre-nerf Phantom again. This buff was definitely a step in the right direction of making him great. That being said I still think he needs another power for utility sense (probably not going to happen) and he seems to be a step to slow (or a bullet to squishy).

(Gh0st1e) #10

I was agreeing with you on him not being a good competitive merc.

He definitely was OP though, which was why I corrected you on what you call OP. You said he was “cheap” like it was something different then OP but they are the same in this case. Like you said, a player that wasn’t very good could often kill players better than them because they were using Phantom. That’s not just cheap, it’s absolutely broken.

As for not being on top of the leaderboards, they may not have been at the very top but Phantom’s were always close to the top due to the sheer amount of people they killed.

(DMaster2) #11

Yes, it was a disgrace and a nightmare to play against. It shall never return to that level and sorry but you won’t go easy mode with him anymore
/thread

(Fate_6) #12

@Gh0st1e you are confusing OP with low skill floor. Phantom was super easy for noobs to play and hard for noobs to play against (newbies can’t kill him fast enough). That’s not OP. I played him a bunch and never did better than I could do with someone like Fragger. Low skill floor, low skill ceiling. Right now he’s actually high skill floor, low skill ceiling, since they straight nerfed him instead of rebalancing him

(Litego) #13

He broke the game. Wasn’t any fun to play anymore.

(Grave_Knight) #14

I wouldn’t say a high skill floor. His guns are powerful and his cloak has some good combat viability (bullet sponge). The only real trick to using him is to realize you don’t need to run all the time, especially when cloaked.

(CCP115) #15

Totally broken. A shield that absolutely absorbed all damage, then 120 hp? He was as tanky as a Fragger, yet he was relatively speedy and had access to a 100 damage katana.

So no he was totally fine.

(Grave_Knight) #16

[quote=“CCP115;88366”]Totally broken. A shield that absolutely absorbed all damage, then 120 hp? He was as tanky as a Fragger, yet he was relatively speedy and had access to a 100 damage katana.

So no he was totally fine.[/quote]
Fragger has 140 HP and Phantom couldn’t use his shield and attack at the same time. The 100 damage katana was only possible with Chopped and it’s still possible with Chopped (it dropped from 108 to 103.5). The biggest problem he had was the Beyblade exploit, the lack of damage bleed through on his shields, and his inexplicable protection from gas damage all of which were not intended.

(Matuno) #17

At the time of Phantom’s release, he was really, really overpowered. Massively difficult to spot even when sprinting, able to soak up a shitload of damage. Add to that the fact that he can use his stab to lay a craptonne of damage on entire clusters of enemies, and you had a rage machine on your hands.

Moving to another server wasn’t really an option since they were literally everywhere, and in great numbers. I actually took a bit of a break when it was on F2P rotation since the game was unplayable at that point.

(watsyurdeal) #18

[quote=“Gh0st1e;87043”]I was agreeing with you on him not being a good competitive merc.

He definitely was OP though, which was why I corrected you on what you call OP. You said he was “cheap” like it was something different then OP but they are the same in this case. Like you said, a player that wasn’t very good could often kill players better than them because they were using Phantom. That’s not just cheap, it’s absolutely broken.

As for not being on top of the leaderboards, they may not have been at the very top but Phantom’s were always close to the top due to the sheer amount of people they killed.[/quote]

Just because you could pubstomp with him doesn’t make him op, fuck I can do that with Nader, Bush, and Fragger on a decent basis. Doesn’t mean they’re op though, if anything you can say he’s broken, cause that he is. In his current form, he doesn’t do at all what he’s supposed to, and to the people he does kill it feels unfair. That definitely fits the definition of broken imo.

(GamePois0n) #19

Phantom sucks, no melee range, no damage, movement speed is too slow for melee class, not invisible at all (anybody who doesn’t wear glasses can see him like a regular NONE CLOAKED merc)

(gg2ez) #20

Is this old enough to be counted as a necro? @Faraleth @Amerika @Ardez