Wait for the "big patch"/DLC?


(GreasedScotsman) #21

@Donkey I understand the frustrations that people have with Brink. I have them, too, in fact. But I also never expected Brink to be ready for competition out of the box. No FPS EVER is… it takes a good month or sometimes several months before things are tuned and solid.

Our expectations have changed while the development and refinement process has not.

And again, SD isn’t going to abandon its competitive base as long as we don’t abandon SD. Is it good business sense to make sure their largest playerbase stays hooked? Yes. It’s even good for competition for SD to focus on pubnub play first because teams will need new blood if Brink is to last.

I know it’s frustrating. SD knows its frustrating… but they are working on these issues.


(Vozlov) #22

There is a difference between being ready for competition and being completely unplayable. Even if games don’t usually release to the quality envisioned, and they need more work, there is at least an enjoyable, playable experience to be had ( usually ).

I understand many others don’t have these problems but I know many who do. It is simply irritating because this looked, and could of been something really quite special, especially to the console market. Instead it will never achieve its full potential, no game ever has that has had such a sketchy release. The reviews certainly don’t help, and will only alienate potential players more.

I’m a console player, and the fact the PC gets dedicated servers ( run by SD? ) just irriates me more. Console players do not? Right? ( I honestly am not sure )

It’s a shame, a waste of potential, and imo there is nothing worse on this planet than wasted talent. Which, I’m sad to say, has been wasted in my case, and many others.


(blazen) #23

If spawn adjustments come with the DLC then I do think it will have a larger impact on the comp scene than I previously thought. I really hope that is the case!

I imagine the focus for SD with the DLC is to get some quick content out there to prompt sales and attempt to satisfy the ‘general audience.’ Would think a little comp-focused material would be nice too!


(GreasedScotsman) #24

@Vozlov Console players cannot get dedicated servers by virtue of their P2P network architecture. Thank MS and Sony for that one.

As to your other point… yes Brink still has problems and it started out w/ quite a few that have already been fixed. Emphasis on that last part… because if I load up, say, COD BLOPS, it’s still riddled with stuff that has been there since day one and will still be there long after we’ve moved on to the next Modern CashCow. SD, on the other hand, is working their way through Brink, has released several patches, and, as the many forum posts attest, is getting pretty close to a sweet spot for public gameplay. I appreciate their efforts and am sure that competition attention isn’t far behind.


(Vozlov) #25

Thank MS and Sony? The Bad Company games have dedicated servers, as do others. I’m sure it is not a fault of Microsoft that SplashDamage don’t want to invest in dedicated servers for the console crowd.

True, there have been some problems fixed, namely I can actually play the game at all, but their work around has also left me unable to actually have a game with more than 4 people total at a time. Any more and it simply laggs to the point of unplayability. When a game sports large scale battles between multiple people, then has to ditch this selling point in order to make the game actually playable, people start to feel rather done over.

Bringing up CoD for the sake of argument doesn’t help. Sure there are problems with it but you can actually sit through a game with more than 4 people without game breaking lagg.
Which group of players are you actually talking about being happy with the product as is?
There are some die hard fans, and fans without problems, but as far as I can tell there are just as many gamers who picked this up and are quite simply unhappy with it.

The fact I can’t find any of these happy people to play with is another point to that subject.

Competitiion attention? Do you mean the competition is actually looking on at Brink with envious, jealous eyes? Sorry to say but I doubt it extremely. Most competition is currently working on their next big entries into their most profitable series. They are simply far to busy to be looking at what Brink is doing better. ( If I got that meaning correctly, may I ask what it is you think they’d be jealous of? )

I don’t mean to get at you or anything, far from it. I’m just serously interested in how they can sort out these problems in a timely fashion, as the game needs some rather extreme overhauls in certain areas. Areas including…

Matchmaking- Lobby systems, quick match systems, general networking systems. All either need to be created or revamped extensively.

Balance- Weapons, maps, gameplay, all need serious tweaks in order for the game to have any sustained playability at all.


(Cynix) #26

Imagine if Joe Newb has just bought the game, joins a server for the first time, joins the defending team, spawns, runs to where the action is (not far), dies, and then has to wait 20 - 30 seconds before he can play again, rinse - repeat a few times and he’s spent most of his first ‘x’ minutes in the game dead and waiting. I suspect he wouldn’t be too happy about that and might not be playing tomorrow.

Joe Newb would probably really hate CS then :smiley:

Also, I wouldn’t put much faith in SD’s alleged “competitive background”. It’s true that “some of them” “a long time ago” played some Q2 clanned, but they’ve never released a comp ready game, and never patched a game to be comp ready, both their previous efforts required community mods.

It’s not so much the competitive background of the developer as the unique style of competitive games that they make; namely: objective based gameplay, stopwatch mode, a heavy emphasis on medium range / SMG combat, high-health players with low-damage weapons, and fast movement. These are the characteristics that give SD its loyal following despite the issues with past games. As far as I’m aware, there are virtually no other developers that build this type of game.

It is sort of interesting to hear about the game from the point of view of a console player. I suspect that most of the people in this particular forum are PC players, although traditionally games often sell an order of magnitude more copies on consoles than on PC.

Lag is practically a non-issue on the PC. It has dedicated servers, but they are not run by SD (at least not most of them). Primarily the clans and really dedicated players pay for the server.

Splash Damage have proved to me that they are literally unable to make a game on their own merits, without second hand help in creating the engine, and therefor I will never buy a product of theirs again.

Very few developers create their own engines because it’s very time consuming and very expensive. It’s especially impractical for a small studio like SD.

They say they have, but I seriously doubt the ability of any developer whos response to crippling lagg is to cut down the maximum player count in games. This has to be the most pathetic attempt at sorting out a games problems I have ever heard in my many years of gaming.

On the PC at least the max player cap of 16 has nothing to do with limiting lag. This type of multiplayer game is designed for small team sizes of 5 or 6. With > 6 players you lose a lot of the tactical aspect of a stopwatch game because you can group up so heavily. With fewer players you have to be more careful about positioning your players and readjusting dynamically to changing situations in the game.

That is simply the main course, the desert is the way in which they have completely neglected the most simplest of console standards in creating a decent matchmaking system.

SD is really a PC developer at their core. If you tell a PC gamer that a game doesn’t have a matchmaking system their response will probably be “meh.” If you tell a PC gamer that the game only has a matching making system (MW2) their response will probably be “gtfo.” I’m not saying it’s acceptable for a console game to not have matchmaking, I’m just saying that it’s not something most PC players would see as missing from the game.

It truely is a shame, because as with all SDs products there are obviously some extremely good ideas laying at the core of the gameplay. Unfortunately what they don’t seem to realise is that ideas don’t make the game, it’s the way it is put together.

QFT In theory, SD has the best formula for competitive gaming. After three iterations of what is conceptually the same game you would think they would have the balance issues worked out.


(coolstory) #27

I think the dlc will bring back a lot of players. However, I doubt they will be satisfied. The game will still have lot of fps cvars locked and demo recording wont be added.

So in the end most players will leave and brink will die as a competitive game.


(Apache) #28

Getting tired of people saying Brink will die !
I havent had so much fun playing a game sinds RTCW & ET…
The game has everything to be great, just give it a chance to shape it!


(Kendle) #29

Probably, if it was released today and no other game had done one-life-per-round before. We live in a different world now, games must be easy and provide instant gratification.

All of which they inherited from RTCW when they were commissioned to make an expansion pack for it (that later became ET), they didn’t invent that type of gameplay and have done little to enhance it. All they added was an XP system, which competition promptly removed, a new class (Covert Op), which competition didn’t use, and 6 maps, 5 of which competition didn’t play etc.


(DonkeyDong) #30

[QUOTE=GreasedScotsman;335696]@Donkey I understand the frustrations that people have with Brink. I have them, too, in fact. But I also never expected Brink to be ready for competition out of the box. No FPS EVER is… it takes a good month or sometimes several months before things are tuned and solid.

Our expectations have changed while the development and refinement process has not.

And again, SD isn’t going to abandon its competitive base as long as we don’t abandon SD. Is it good business sense to make sure their largest playerbase stays hooked? Yes. It’s even good for competition for SD to focus on pubnub play first because teams will need new blood if Brink is to last.

I know it’s frustrating. SD knows its frustrating… but they are working on these issues.[/QUOTE]

Your words greased i played in my head with your voice. and oddly it has braught me a sense of peace. you are right. i just hope everyone else sees it like this. you know i will be playing this as long as it’s not dead like Wolfenstein. was sad when i played that game to the point i’d empty out the only servers left. ya, said when I do that, in more sense then 1.


(wolfnemesis75) #31

Lots of people are pumped for the DLC. The game has a lot of layers already.


(GreasedScotsman) #32

I over-stepped. I should have said “tend to not get” rather than “cannot get” dedicated servers. I wish Brink had dedicated servers for the console crowd as the game is quite solid. However, as with the case of, say L4D, Valve runs those servers. Same with DICE and BFBC2. When I think of dedicated servers I think of something the players/community own and run. My point was more than the common implementation for console multiplayer is P2P–a sad fact that wounds my soul just thinking about it.

Bringing up CoD for the sake of argument doesn’t help. Sure there are problems with it but you can actually sit through a game with more than 4 people without game breaking lagg.

At launch, COD had lag problems. From what I recall talking w/ friends when the game was released, it was unplayable, and it took a few patches before being relatively smooth. COD still has lag problems, but they’re better now as I understand it. I imagine Brink will improve, too. From the threads I’m reading, it’s playable for many on the console, especially after this latest patch.

Competition attention? Do you mean the competition is actually looking on at Brink with envious, jealous eyes?

I mean competitive gaming/esports, not competing developers.

Balance- Weapons, maps, gameplay, all need serious tweaks in order for the game to have any sustained playability at all.

Some nice gameplay tweaks just happened a few days ago and weapon tweaks have already been mentioned to be soon.

With a +5 or so respawn time adjustment for the defense, demo recording reinstated, some HUD tweaks and additional server settings available, this game will be pretty golden on the PC. I do hope SD sorts out the remaining console issues, though.


(Cynix) #33

All of which they inherited from RTCW when they were commissioned to make an expansion pack for it (that later became ET), they didn’t invent that type of gameplay and have done little to enhance it.

Not disagreeing with that at all, but SD is still the only developer currently using the formula for new games. No doubt everyone is looking for RTCW 2, and right now SD looks like the only developer that is even remotely likely to implement something like that.


(Tandem) #34

Hard to complain, I’ve never developed a game,
and no one twisted my arm to buy this one.

I can say I do miss things like demos, first person spec,
cross-hair options, server info (players), lobby chat…;
For these things to be missing on release and not included
on the first patch sends a clear message.

I’m looking forward to future patches and the DLC,
although my expectations are really very low now,
which is a good thing. Right?


(Vozlov) #35

[QUOTE=GreasedScotsman;336188]I over-stepped. I should have said “tend to not get” rather than “cannot get” dedicated servers. I wish Brink had dedicated servers for the console crowd as the game is quite solid. However, as with the case of, say L4D, Valve runs those servers. Same with DICE and BFBC2. When I think of dedicated servers I think of something the players/community own and run. My point was more than the common implementation for console multiplayer is P2P–a sad fact that wounds my soul just thinking about it.

At launch, COD had lag problems. From what I recall talking w/ friends when the game was released, it was unplayable, and it took a few patches before being relatively smooth. COD still has lag problems, but they’re better now as I understand it. I imagine Brink will improve, too. From the threads I’m reading, it’s playable for many on the console, especially after this latest patch.

I mean competitive gaming/esports, not competing developers.

Some nice gameplay tweaks just happened a few days ago and weapon tweaks have already been mentioned to be soon.

With a +5 or so respawn time adjustment for the defense, demo recording reinstated, some HUD tweaks and additional server settings available, this game will be pretty golden on the PC. I do hope SD sorts out the remaining console issues, though.[/QUOTE]

That is all fair enough. TBH I wish I could of bought this game on the PC but I very much doubt it would run it.

I’ve already sold the game but will be checking up on it in future to see how it is going. If I hear good things I might just pick this up again as I loved the concepts behind it.

My problem was the matchmaking and the lagg, which I’m sure some will not of had, and I hope for the rest of the players still hanging in there it can be sorted soon.

It is good to see a developer who actually converses so closely with the community though, and I do hope I can enjoy this game in the future.


(korruption v2) #36

PC gamers are starting to get some love, but unfortunately it is still going to take some time. We will always get the treatment, just not at the same rate as consoles. After all, we only account for 5 percent of the market.


(BomBaKlaK) #37

any news ?


(Cynix) #38

any news ?

I played Quake Wars today. The most amazing part was getting a constant 60 fps on maximum quality while looking upon a map that was bigger and more open than all of the maps in Brink combined. Hit reg was unfortunately still bad though, however that is the only part of Quake Wars that I will ever criticize again.

If you’re looking for news on the DLC, no, there is none. You can watch the news page and maybe some will show up:
http://www.splashdamage.com/news


(Redshft) #39

[QUOTE=GreasedScotsman;335053]Holy **** BMXer, stop QQ’ing. Seriously… your impatience is ridiculous. I know you’re old enough to remember how long patches used to take for PC games. I know you’re old enough to remember that ZERO FPS games have ever been released bug free and balanced. In fact, most have taken months or even years of patching before they were the truly decent gems we remember.

Yet, in less than month, SD has fixed maybe 90% of the glaring issues with the game. Were there problems? Absolutely. Do many remain? Sure do. But at least they’re being fixed.

Have they fixed competitive stuff? Not yet. But they’ve started to… and the PC especially is starting to get attention.

Guess what… competition makes up like 1% of a game company’s sales. This is even true for a powerhouse game like SC2, so it makes sense to get the masses happy, and then try to claw back the competitive people.

SD will get there. Have some faith.

SD isn’t Infinity Ward. They’re actually patching their ****. Just because the competitive scene wasn’t first on the list doesn’t mean you’re being ignored. Stop the doom and gloom and give SD a chance. If they **** up or ignore the comp scene after the “big patch/DLC” then I’ll even join you in the chorus of lament, k?[/QUOTE]

I am sorry but all of the previous competitive titles I have played can actually be played competitively out of the box. This can not. It needs major modifications to be viable, which may or may not be on the way. After being burned many times, I will not take a developers word as what will happen in the future.


(Tandem) #40

[QUOTE=GreasedScotsman;334599]I know from conversations in #splashdamage and elsewhere that the comp community will be getting some love soon.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Rounding up to be another QW size pool of teams, if there’s anyone left to see it.
Realistically even less with QW looking better in hindsight or no competition period.

/grief