Vassili hate

(Xyfurion) #21

Vassili (or Recon in general) is utterly useless when played by a new player. He attracts new users so much that people have started to associate Vassili with new players. The fact of the matter is, any character can be useless when played by a clueless newbie. Skyhammer and Aura are available for everyone. That is why they are sometimes associated with noobs, although nowhere near as much as Vassili, who is most players’ first merc.

In the hands of a good player, any merc is useful. Hell, look at Ragnak (Hexa Flexa OP on YouTube), he has videos of him playing as (nearly) every merc and usually at the top of the leaderboard. So Vassili being useless is a misconception and a misunderstanding. There are a few useful Vassilis. But god knows, they are few and far between.

(SaulWolfden) #22

A bad Vassili or bad Aimee is basically dead weight on the team. Red Eye I don’t include because most people do at least spot with him. They sit in the back and maybe get 3 kills (like a Phoenix who immediately revives himself). These are the majority of Vassili players, at least he should require you own a couple of mercs before you could buy him (say 2-3 mercs not counting Skyhammer and Aura). He’s just never going to lose that stigma since decent or good Vassili players are very rare.

(Xyfurion) #23

I absolutely despise new Redeyes. Way to throwing a FUCKING smoke grenade in the middle of the battlefield (and not bothering to spot). WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT?!

Literally had this so many times. Redeye throws smoke while I’m shooting someone, and just up and leaves without using the Infrared goggles. WTF dude…

(FalC_16) #24

tl;dr

when I spot Vassili player that is below lvl 10 I am boiling. Not gonna lie there. My hate is real. As I said before 9/10 vassilis are useless as potato.

(Xyfurion) #25

Now I kinda want to play Vassili. Just to piss some people off (I’m crap at Vassili; or any other sniper class)

(Herr_Hanz) #26

just do it :slight_smile:

(watsyurdeal) #27

[quote=“KUST__LunarTM;188365”][quote=“FrostyVampire;188343”]Vassili shouldn’t do the objective really.
[/quote]

Everyone should do the objective, there’s no reason for Vassili not to get the objective. If no one is on it, you’re the one who has to do it. If you have a machine pistol secondary, even more reason to do it since you have a pretty good secondary to defend yourself if necessary.
[/quote]

Wrong, this is where I have a problem with a lot of players, roles. Roles and understanding what yours is at a given point in time is one of the most crucial bits of knowledge in any game.

If you have a Vasilli, as long as he’s doing his job, which is killing people with headshots and throwing out his sensors, you can’t really bash him, he’s doing his job. If anything you should be bashing your Engineers or lack thereof. Same thing with Medics, if a Medic isn’t healing or reviving, why? Is it because nobody is backing him up? Does he not have a Assault merc tagging along with him or a good player playing one? If so, try to get that problem fixed, because nine times out of ten people who do more damage than healing are often doing it out of frustration or desperation.

While I can understand why people hate Vasilli, give me a break, a bad Aura is just as detrimental. She enforces a sense of passive aggression for Attackers, which means getting a good push going is nigh impossible. A bad Skyhammer wastes his airstrikes on players instead of the EV, and doesn’t give out any ammo.

Bad players in general are the problem, not the mercs.

And I think before people start talking crap about their team, first they need to check and see how much they are doing.

If you have 25 kills for example, and everyone else on your team has less than 10…then yea, totally justified to go on a rant. But if everyone else is doing fine, then back off a bit, just communicate and figure out what to do. Act like adults.

(FalC_16) #28

I actually disagree here at one point. If skyhammer or aura drops the ammo or healing station I am able to pick it up and get health/ammo. While useless vassili is useless and does not even have to be there. Basically it’s one player less on your side. This is where it makes the difference.

Never had any issue with Aimee or Red eye. As per my experience most of the times competent players pick up these classes. While every single newcomer or noob takes Vassili full stop.

(Guziol) #29

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;188551”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;188365”][quote=“FrostyVampire;188343”]Vassili shouldn’t do the objective really.
[/quote]

Everyone should do the objective, there’s no reason for Vassili not to get the objective. If no one is on it, you’re the one who has to do it. If you have a machine pistol secondary, even more reason to do it since you have a pretty good secondary to defend yourself if necessary.
[/quote]

Wrong, this is where I have a problem with a lot of players, roles. Roles and understanding what yours is at a given point in time is one of the most crucial bits of knowledge in any game.

If you have a Vasilli, as long as he’s doing his job, which is killing people with headshots and throwing out his sensors, you can’t really bash him, he’s doing his job. If anything you should be bashing your Engineers or lack thereof. Same thing with Medics, if a Medic isn’t healing or reviving, why? Is it because nobody is backing him up? Does he not have a Assault merc tagging along with him or a good player playing one? If so, try to get that problem fixed, because nine times out of ten people who do more damage than healing are often doing it out of frustration or desperation.

While I can understand why people hate Vasilli, give me a break, a bad Aura is just as detrimental. She enforces a sense of passive aggression for Attackers, which means getting a good push going is nigh impossible. A bad Skyhammer wastes his airstrikes on players instead of the EV, and doesn’t give out any ammo.

Bad players in general are the problem, not the mercs.

And I think before people start talking crap about their team, first they need to check and see how much they are doing.

If you have 25 kills for example, and everyone else on your team has less than 10…then yea, totally justified to go on a rant. But if everyone else is doing fine, then back off a bit, just communicate and figure out what to do. Act like adults.[/quote]

Exactly, vassilis job is killing people. Every merc can kill people. Therefore vassili pickers strip themselves from responsibility of doing absolutely anything team oriented. I play snipers from time to time because its fun, at least to me but im absolutely aware that 99% of the time i play a sniper, even when i consider myself a decent one, i would have contributed towards a win way more by playing a diffrent role.

(Yoma) #30

Maybe we’re playing an different game but the really good Skyhammers are those who throw airstrike on the ground once they spawned. (I wont start to argue if they do it because they’re good enough to mess up the buttons or…well… because theyre simply good… .)

PS:Yes, the best ones even manage to get a kill with that method, but sadly its buggy and grants negative exp, strange thing. :confused:

(arcaneCanvas) #31

[quote=“FalC_16;188553”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;188551”]

While I can understand why people hate Vasilli, give me a break, a bad Aura is just as detrimental. She enforces a sense of passive aggression for Attackers, which means getting a good push going is nigh impossible. A bad Skyhammer wastes his airstrikes on players instead of the EV, and doesn’t give out any ammo.

Bad players in general are the problem, not the mercs.
[/quote]

I actually disagree here at one point. If skyhammer or aura drops the ammo or healing station I am able to pick it up and get health/ammo. While useless vassili is useless and does not even have to be there.
[/quote]

but…you agree that bad player playing vasilli is the problem…
what if skyhammer and aura dont revive and give ammo?
doesnt it make the same condition as useless vasilli?
because there are many medics and skyhammer like that.

(Herr_Hanz) #32

you know there is a problem with your team with you as a sniper are top of the team, and the guy under you has half your points.

(Jostabeere) #33

[quote=“arcaneCanvas;188562”][quote=“FalC_16;188553”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;188551”]

While I can understand why people hate Vasilli, give me a break, a bad Aura is just as detrimental. She enforces a sense of passive aggression for Attackers, which means getting a good push going is nigh impossible. A bad Skyhammer wastes his airstrikes on players instead of the EV, and doesn’t give out any ammo.

Bad players in general are the problem, not the mercs.
[/quote]

I actually disagree here at one point. If skyhammer or aura drops the ammo or healing station I am able to pick it up and get health/ammo. While useless vassili is useless and does not even have to be there.
[/quote]

but…you agree that bad player playing vasilli is the problem…
what if skyhammer and aura dont revive and give ammo?
doesnt it make the same condition as useless vasilli?
because there are many medics and skyhammer like that.[/quote]

Not the majority of Skyhammers or Auras don’t give ammo or heal you.

(arcaneCanvas) #34

[quote=“Jostabeere;188580”][quote=“arcaneCanvas;188562”][quote=“FalC_16;188553”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;188551”]

While I can understand why people hate Vasilli, give me a break, a bad Aura is just as detrimental. She enforces a sense of passive aggression for Attackers, which means getting a good push going is nigh impossible. A bad Skyhammer wastes his airstrikes on players instead of the EV, and doesn’t give out any ammo.

Bad players in general are the problem, not the mercs.
[/quote]

I actually disagree here at one point. If skyhammer or aura drops the ammo or healing station I am able to pick it up and get health/ammo. While useless vassili is useless and does not even have to be there.
[/quote]

but…you agree that bad player playing vasilli is the problem…
what if skyhammer and aura dont revive and give ammo?
doesnt it make the same condition as useless vasilli?
because there are many medics and skyhammer like that.[/quote]

Not the majority of Skyhammers or Auras don’t give ammo or heal you.[/quote]

“majority” of noobies dont even run tutorial

(KUST__LunarTM) #35

@Watsyurdeal Even if Vassili’s job is to stand back and kill and support from his optimal distance, that doesn’t mean it’s the only thing he is able to do. Low skill players are generally expected to not do a lot of team assistance, but there are plenty of well skilled players who, when they play Vassili, focus ONLY on killing. They ignore downed teammates, ev repairs, and c4 plants/defuses most of the time, even when the entire enemy team is wiped. They just sit there scoped in waiting for someone to cross their vision.

(watsyurdeal) #36

Because that’s their role, you need to understand that you’re not helping your team when you aren’t doing your part of the job. You shouldn’t expect your Vasilli or Fragger to compensate for Fletcher when he’s not planting the bomb, or for your Sawbonez or Phoneix to compensate for the Fragger when his aim is off or he’s going off on his own too much. Everyone needs to pull their own weight, whether you like it or not, if that Vasilli is killing a lot of people, and throwing out sensors, he’s doing his job. Your anger should be directed at the Engineer who’s not doing his part.

THAT is a team work, everyone doing equal amounts of work, not one or two people having to make up for something the others aren’t doing.

(KUST__LunarTM) #37

Because that’s their role, you need to understand that you’re not helping your team when you aren’t doing your part of the job. You shouldn’t expect your Vasilli or Fragger to compensate for Fletcher when he’s not planting the bomb, or for your Sawbonez or Phoneix to compensate for the Fragger when his aim is off or he’s going off on his own too much. Everyone needs to pull their own weight, whether you like it or not, if that Vasilli is killing a lot of people, and throwing out sensors, he’s doing his job. Your anger should be directed at the Engineer who’s not doing his part.

THAT is a team work, everyone doing equal amounts of work, not one or two people having to make up for something the others aren’t doing.[/quote]

In a competitive scene, yes, each player needs to be good at their role, and if a certain role isn’t pulling through, then the blame is on them and not on other players to pull up the slack, but doesn’t mean that the other players have permission to completely ignore other aspects of the game. If the team’s engineer is killed, the rest of the team is scattered out or in battle, and you, being Vassili, happen to see an opening where you could plant the C4, it would be stupid to just completely ignore it.

(watsyurdeal) #38

Because that’s their role, you need to understand that you’re not helping your team when you aren’t doing your part of the job. You shouldn’t expect your Vasilli or Fragger to compensate for Fletcher when he’s not planting the bomb, or for your Sawbonez or Phoneix to compensate for the Fragger when his aim is off or he’s going off on his own too much. Everyone needs to pull their own weight, whether you like it or not, if that Vasilli is killing a lot of people, and throwing out sensors, he’s doing his job. Your anger should be directed at the Engineer who’s not doing his part.

THAT is a team work, everyone doing equal amounts of work, not one or two people having to make up for something the others aren’t doing.[/quote]

In a competitive scene, yes, each player needs to be good at their role, and if a certain role isn’t pulling through, then the blame is on them and not on other players to pull up the slack, but doesn’t mean that the other players have permission to completely ignore other aspects of the game. If the team’s engineer is killed, the rest of the team is scattered out or in battle, and you, being Vassili, happen to see an opening where you could plant the C4, it would be stupid to just completely ignore it.[/quote]

Only if he can safely get the plant down, otherwise he’s just throwing himself out there to be killed, when he could just wait and keep his position so when his Engineer comes back, he can safely plant the bomb because he spent those 5 or so extra second picking some enemies off rather than planting, only for it to get defused.

Controlling the map in that way definitely guarantees a plant more often than the just going for it yourself and losing your position.

(Teflon Love) #39

[quote=“arcaneCanvas;188562”]what if skyhammer and aura dont revive and give ammo?
doesnt it make the same condition as useless vasilli?[/quote]

To answer that, I’ll just quote myself from another Vasithread:

[quote=“teflonlove;179778”]There’s a couple of reasons why an unskilled Vasilli is worse than any other unskilled merc:

[list]
[] Unskilled Vasillis camp in the back, do not really see what the more skilled players are doing and consequently can’t learn from them.
[] Unskilled Vasillis miss their shots completely and do not contribute partial damage like any other unskilled player that deliver at least some random hits in close combat.
[] Unskilled Vasillis camp in the back and never provide body cover for others. Not even accidentally.
[] Unskilled Vasillis camp in the back and never act as distraction to make an opponent have to choose which one of the mercs in his vicinity to shoot at.
[/list][/quote]

(bgyoshi) #40

It’s not about doing the merc’s job or not, it’s about how useful to the team the merc’s job is, and Vassili’s job is not useful. Killing mercs one at a time is a worthless skill when the job of an assault class is to kill multiple mercs at a time. The majority of a Vassili’s kills are going to be single headshot/bodyshot kills, rarely will they get the double kill with one bullet. Other than that, he doesn’t help the team. He can’t revive mercs, he can’t plant efficiently. Hell, even engineers can usually kill mercs 2 at a time.

98% of Vassili kills won’t be 2 at a time. It’s not just as simple as “Oh but he’s doing the only job he can don’t be mad.” Vassili’s job isn’t good enough compared to every other merc. The slot is literally better spent as an assault, engi, or medic. A strong Vassili will serve the team better as a mediocre medic. Engi. Assault. Whatever. He’s just not a useful class.