Vanilla's "simple" fix for Burst Rifles...

(Xenithos) #1

So… I think rather than just changing damage values, the guns should just be reworked. Bursts and high skill values for playing them should still be rewarded with higher damage, but, their insane 150 (higher than machine guns) damage can be changed and the feel of them too. I put a lot of thought into what I myself would do, and recently posted it in the FAQ-ing Fridays update.

Here’s an in-depth description of the changes:
Change the BR-16 into a 32 round gun that fires off bursts of four. Damage values should be between 8-10 per bullet. Give initial bullet near pin-point accuracy for the first burst. Increase Rate-of Fire of the gun between bursts, and decrease time between rounds exiting in a burst. Increase burst accuracy bloom by 8% PER BULLET. Increase max spread by about 20%. Reduce effective range by 2m, and decrease bullet speed by 5%. This makes it spammier, less accurate after every burst and penalizes burst spamming, and requires more control for consistent damage while giving it a completely new feel that fits the sound effect. A heavier feeling vomit of bullets from a burst rifle. The DPS can still be around 150-160, but it won’t feel as strong as it currently does unless someone is on top of you, and you’re spamming like crazy. (you know… kinda like Rhino)

Then they can change the Stark into a much more accurate gun, with less spam-ability, with lower damage. It can do between 8-9 damage per bullet, 24-27 with all 3 bullets per click, and 48-54 on a head shot if all bullets are hitting. Increase effective range drastically (50-75% increase over where it is now), and decrease vertical and horizontal recoil and spread by 15%. Increase amount of time between bullets leaving the gun by 15%ish, and keep the time between firing the same (or slightly reduce it…). Finally, increase bullet speed by 20%. This makes it a controlled burst rifle with average damage but extremely high accuracy and range. Effective DPS should be 125-130ish for the Stark, allowing it some good use outside of other assault rifles, and favored by players that want to counter snipe with an assault-rifle.

These changes would make the BR-16 the higher DPS gun when in tight corners, and the Stark a much more reliable damage dealer for players with good aim.

This would change the feel of both guns, remove the high dps and lower skill cap, while still giving them an advantage and utility over other assault rifles on mercs. 140-150dps is plausible when it’s done right, on the right characters. This increases the skill and changes the situations for each gun being used.
[spoiler]
They really should change the k-121 and the mk machine gun doe… at least the mk needs some kind of weird accuracy or random spread change… It’s just not reliable, and not enough damage. The huge magazine is nice… but not big enough to account for being the size of a billboard.[/spoiler]
Splash Damage, please give this some thought, as this isn’t your average nerf damage or spread kind of idea.

(OwynTyler) #2

Well, a better solution would be just deleting snipers and burst-rifles all-together B)

(Xenithos) #3

Would that be a “better solution” Or would that just be removing something from a game and giving up on additional content? :* I know it’s meant as a joke… but… yeah. Think it’s pretty safe to say snipers and bursts are staying. :confused:

(OwynTyler) #4

Well, an “additional content” would be the game without those, it’d be a nice compensation which would bring much more pleasant feeling from playing :wink:

(DNineD) #5

I think the damage is too low (8~10, from the current 17 of the BR, which translates to 41~52% in change) , control is too demanding and is not reflective of the assault rifle damage it is supposed to give as alternative to M4, Timik or Dreiss. It’ll end up like burst fire medium range version of a Hochfir with all the nerfs applied, effectively giving AR wielding mercs a burstfire SMG.

Any approach to balancing must consider hit placement and base damage due to range. Perhaps if no damage was changed but an applied effect like “aim punch” is altered, then other weapons like the Hochfir, Anhuld or Empire-9 could be made more viable against someone using BR-16 or Stark .

(GatoCommodore) #6

can we request this for the test server @stayfreshshoe ?

(Press E) #7

“Bullet Speed” isn’t a factor in this game, is it? It’s all hitscan as far as I know.

But anyways, I don’t think the guns need to be changed that drastically to be balanced. the BR-16 is fine as it is IMO (though a 4-round burst concept is interesting, I think it would be best put to use on a new weapon instead), and all the Stark needs is some increased spread or a slower rate of fire to be more or less balanced.
@DNineD makes a very good point too.

(Melinder) #8

Adding any more spread or bullet dilation will result in more randomness in gunfights. Small amounts of spread is necessary in order to balance a large amount of weapons, but any more than what there is now will result in a lot of firefights being won by luck and not skill.

Anybody who’s played CS:GO will know the pain of sitting in window room on Mirage, and being one tapped by a guy who jump-peeked top with an AK. There was no skill involved, they just got lucky.

(BlackboltLW) #9

Also another fix: don’t give Thunder the Stark

(Press E) #10

[quote=“Cam2g;c-226127”]Adding any more spread or bullet dilation will result in more randomness in gunfights. Small amounts of spread is necessary in order to balance a large amount of weapons, but any more than what there is now will result in a lot of firefights being won by luck and not skill.

Anybody who’s played CS:GO will know the pain of sitting in window room on Mirage, and being one tapped by a guy who jump-peeked top with an AK. There was no skill involved, they just got lucky.[/quote]

Hmm, you’re definitely right about that.
The Stark is definitely still outpreforming other weapons though, and it needs to be reworked.

(Tanker_Ray) #11

[b]Just roll back the RPM to 2015 CW update, when it had rather slow burst delay between the shot, so there was difinitely some ‘dmg lose’ part in between the burst.

    • 3 mag size just like before.

This is the easiest way to fix those two.[/b]

Keeping its concept of ‘BURST’ rifle, able to punish hard when burst rifle user actually miss their shots.

So I disagree a bit with fixing any of dmg/range factors right now.

But still, I also quite agree that… if we don’t change the damage input of those two,

mercs with less than 100 HP(BR’s double burst = 51 x 2, Stark’s = 54 x 2, so 110HP can still survive eventhough all 6 shots land.) will still suffer. Especially PHEONIX.

Leaving the RPM, delay between the burst and making Stark shooting 16~17 x 3, BR shooting
15~6 x 3 would be nice.

@STARRYSOCK

Looks like Stark is the one who’s on focus, but we can’t exclude BR from balance breaking part.

BR is definitely not fine when there is K-121.

Movement speed : BR = -12.5%/K-121 = -17.5% (This is only 0.5% difference compared to minigun and grenade launcher!)

Alpha Damage : BR = shoots THREE 17dmg shots with single click./K-121 = 17dmg/shot.

Range : BR = 29, Third highest range in the game among with Timik./K-121 = 27m. only 1 m longer than M4.

Accuracy : K-121 has MUCH higher recoil, even wider spread than BR that you just can’t jump while you are shooting this gun. Wobbling ironsight also bothers K-121’s far range damage dealing, along with 27m of rather short range.

Reload speed/Mag size : Hell, No need to explain.

Basically show machine guns in DB is absolute bs, when there is burst rifle sitting on the throne.

What’s more significant is, K-121 is Fragger’s OWN weapon, just like Thunder has his MK.46.

K-121 is definitely better gun compared to MK.46 overall, and I’m clearly not saying K-121’s firepower is low, but the gun is still in underpowered state when Fragger has access to BR.

(Xenithos) #12

My changes were actually with the goal of eliminating an 80hp easy head kill. While making it possible for both guns if they’re right in front of you.

Thanks for the feedback though guys!

(averagerussian) #13

if a nerf happened it would most likely be a joke like thunder’s nerf

(AlbinMatt) #14

Yeah, I do feel that the rifles, BRs and ARs feel to similar between their respective partners. I can’t aim worth a grain of salt, and I am certainly not a firearms coniseur, but I do like your proposal.

Also, who’s Vanilla?

(everlovestruck) #15

@AlbinMatt said:

Also, who’s Vanilla?

Look @ OP’s profie pic, it has vanilla flowers

(Xenithos) #16

[quote=“AlbinMatt;c-226517”]Yeah, I do feel that the rifles, BRs and ARs feel to similar between their respective partners. I can’t aim worth a grain of salt, and I am certainly not a firearms coniseur, but I do like your proposal.

Also, who’s Vanilla?[/quote]

ME! :smiley:
Vanilla~Firaga at your service!

The original name of this account was Xenithos back from Combat Arms… I had a Nexon account back from like 2004, and for some reason, that came with certain perks when I got on this forum. My name stayed from my Nexon Forums account, and I was allowed to pick a profile picture with 0 rep. Anyway, this was the name, and it was actually my steam name until like two years ago too. Just never changed it. Howdy!

(KangaJoo) #17

“bullet speed”
M8 there ain’t no bullet speed in this game. It’s pure hitscan on every weapon that shoots bullets and also the revivr. I’m also highly against increasing spread and basically forcing people to either ADS or slow down their bursts to the point that they have such low dmg output they may as well use a different weapon.

Then again, I already think the hipfire spread, at least while strafing on basically all weapons is too high. Honestly not sure why there’s a difference between strafing and standing accuracy. It’s not like with jumping how the instantaneous height change can make people miss headshots since there’s acceleration and smooth traceable movement involved with strafing.

If I wanted to try to balance the burst rifles I would make their DPS at point blank range slightly higher or even about the same as the full auto AR’s but I would give them better first bullet spread, lower spread increase per shot, and less dmg drop off at range than the AR’s/what the br’s have now. That way they don’t destroy AR’s at close and mid range, especially since they’re harder to use for most people up close, but they have a clear advantage over AR’s at longer ranges both in accuracy and dmg. Maybe increasing the time between bursts to make it extra punishing when you miss up close would help solidify that role too.