Vanilla's Crafting Proposition - Utility versus Bling separation


(Xenithos) #1

So, the Devs and most of the Playerbase seem eager to “combine” both models of crafting and trading up. Here’s my proposed solution. It is a combination of several different ideas I’ve had swarming in my head, some of them probably had roots in what others have said.

Two things need to happen first though, and in line with the third point:

First things first: Credit costs need to come down to the old system’s costs for trading up, with the reduced costs over-time of the new system. Combine costs or average them, I don’t care. Main thing is that Credit costs are too high.

Second thing: Golds and Silvers need their old value ratios restored. Meaning 6 golds worth of fragments should equal one cobalt, and 4 silvers should equal one gold. [spoiler]You can also choose to make them higher in worth, since as I’ve mentioned in a previous post, only a full months worth of work should be needed to craft a decent cobalt.[/spoiler]

Thirdly and Finally, how will this system work?
My solution is called: “The Bling vs. Utility Fragments Divide.”
Simply separate fragments into two groups- Utility fragments, and Bling fragments.

Utility fragments are earned only from recycling leads, irons, and bronzes. These become the pseudo-base player fragments for entering Bling transactions, and for other more “utility”-based transactions.
Bling fragments are earned only from recycling silvers, golds, and cobalts. And they can be used to craft Golds and Cobalts as the crafting material.

  • Bronzes and silvers can be crafted from Utility fragments.
  • Silvers, Golds, and Cobalts can be crafted from Bling fragments.
  • Weapon kits can also be crafted from piles of Utility fragments. (This allows weapon kits to be earned through a lot of play.)
  • Style kits can also be crafted from piles of Bling fragments. (Style kits allow you to pick the camouflage you prefer when rolling a card)
  • Crafting kits should be re-purposed as the ‘fix’ to allowing people to convert their different loadout cards in-between generations of cards. Meaning: a crafting kit allows you to convert a gen 2 into a gen 1, or vice versa. They need to also be able to be created by players. Possibly with credits AND utility fragments AND bling fragments? (room for improvement here, but seems awesome!)

So, how is this genius?

First, It separates the strategies of getting the greatest cards between paying players and non-paying players more. Elite and Expert cases offer much more bling amounts over utility, which means paying players don’t get a huge ‘Utility’ reward from paying.

Second, it allows all players the opportunity of gaining these weapon kits for their loadouts, and more so for time spent working in-game rather than simply using the credit card. This rewards playtime.

Thirdly, it reintroduces progression. All cards need to be converted into silvers, to be converted into bling fragments if you’re going for anything higher than silver. And bronzes are created by the people that value utility more than bling still. [spoiler]Crafting Bronzes also shouldn’t decrease your collection’s worth, as four or less should be equal in frags to a silver. Recycling them should give just as many as crafting one. Possibly, crafting bronzes doesn’t cost credits?[/spoiler]

Fourthly, It makes getting leads, irons, and bronzes less mentally painful. We know from now on that if RNG gives us leads, irons, etc. We can still work with them all the way up into the highest category, or convert them into weapon kits or other useful things. We won’t feel as bad getting them.

Fifthly? It’s still a simple system! ('nuff said)

Finally, it doesn’t stop playing players from forcibly getting the loadout ‘of their dreams’. They can still attack the cobalt generation over and over until they get what they want. And since this system still keeps RNG in the loadout aspects, the Devs can be somewhat happy! It only reduces the crap that RNG hurts people with.

This also allows players more customization over what card they want. If they want a Swiss S95 Stoker, this system will help enable them to get it if they use weapon and style kits to craft it.

Special notes: [list]
[] This causes the new system to be balanced around the bronze area. Meaning that Bronze cards kind of become the credit basis for the system. This should bring all prices down since crafting irons costs should be removed completely.
[
] This is also somewhat future-proofed for trading to be a valuable asset. People who have spent tons of money (or time), can trade with lesser-off (blingwise) people for utility cards, in trade for bling amounts.
[/list]

REQUIRED: Please, remove all huge credit fees, and honestly, crafting kits feels like cheating with the amount crafting costs in the current system. Consider repurposing them into allowing us to use them for converting our current cards from different generations into the opposite generations! And Also, remove all requirements in the system to craft irons. Crap, remove crafting irons in all entirety, it’s nearly pointless. Force players to play that wee bit more to craft a bronze instead.

I could probably talk numbers if you’d like, and I originally intended to, but it’s 4:30 AM.

Any thoughts or criticisms are fully welcome! If you happen to think this system sucks balls, please do tell HOW. I’ll explain how I think it covers any bases I didn’t explain properly. I still have other ideas for other systems in-game, but this is solely my thoughts for CRAFTING.

Yours truly,
Vanilla.


(Xenithos) #2

(The following is my original post on the “CRAFTING. LET’S TALK ABOUT IT.” thread. It detailed different things I believed were needed in a fixed’ system. Only click the spoiler if you feel you need more information on what the ‘fixed’ system should have from MY PERSPECTIVE:)

[spoiler][quote=“Xenithos;202660”]I decided to put my “rants” as “examples” and spoiler’d them. If you want my full undivided thoughts, etc. Then click the spoilers.

My thoughts on the whole system:

[list=1]
[] Splash Damage values cobalts way too much.[spoiler] If I had NEVER EVER gotten rid of a cobalt, due to bad rng, and all other conditions, I MIGHT have ~20 cobalts today. With roughly 4-6 that I would actually use. That’s over a year of playing, AND over 200$ spent on events that I actually found as fun. I really don’t think that me, who can make 60-80k credits in a week, and made over 280k credits from 12 credits upon hearing of the Crafting week, should have to spend so much money, for so little of the highest tier stuff. I’ve got extremely close to a thousand hours IN-GAME shooting time.[/spoiler] A good cobalt SHOULD be a monthly investment, imo, NOT 2-3 months, at the rate that I play this game. Please, lower your expectations, and allow players to earn a cobalt of their choice roughly every month from approximately 60-80 hours of work a month. Honestly, it seems more than fair. So please, look at reducing the time to get a Cobalt someone actually WANTS.
[
] The new system should give daily playability beyond 3 hour mission rotations similar to what Watsyurdeal proposed. I enjoy Dirty Bomb a lot, to the point where I play it even if I don’t have missions because of the many great friends and people I’ve met.
[] [spoiler]Your weapon kit prices (and most prices tbh) are abnormally STUPID. I get that “Weapon kits are rare items”, but why the FUDGE does it require 45 of these to craft one weapon choice on a cobalt? That’s 45 levels straight of getting ONE WEAPON KIT. I’m level 71. This is retarded, no matter how you try to defend your number. [/spoiler]Please allow players to fully customize the loadouts they craft, they deserve it, and if they do, a lot more heartbreak and frustrations will be removed from the game. Even if it costs MORE in-game resources, allow them to EARN THEM, not by levels and RnG, because it’s past reasonable.
[
] Allowing players to work up to a cobalt is a unique thing, that was very pleasurable about the old system. If you manage to find a way to allow this with my previous limits, then PLEASE do so.
[] Release cooler content for money so that you earn stuff. As has been mentioned many times on the forums: Players want more unique skins, cooler ones than what is currently offered. Ones where the actual models are changed.
[
] We get that Cobalts are the “End-Game reward” however user results may vary is a stupid thing to tack onto that. Allow the user to continue “Replaying” the game because the user wants to expand his collection.[spoiler] As @THUNDA has already posted in a different thread as a joke: He can die now since he’s finally gotten every great loadout for Thunder in cobalt that he wanted. However, it took him 114 levels to do this, and I don’t really think he’s going to stop playing just because he’s gotten what he wants.[/spoiler] Or perhaps, maybe you guys could find DIFFERENT End-Game rewards in your constantly failing “Ranked” game mode that you could deploy.[spoiler] Perhaps even similar approach to what Blizzard is offering in OW with golden weapons. Not that that’s something that I’d go for, but just an example.[/spoiler] Expand your end-game “rewards” beyond cobalts and skins.
[] The best thing about this game is the fact that it’s free to play. Like ACTUALLY free to play. There’s no P2W in this game. Maybe offer that sort of thought to DB.
[
] Future proof this system with TRADING in mind. If you guys forget that your economy will be affected by trading later on, including the fact that people will want to trade their older, unused cards that others like for resources they can USE, then this system will fail too.
[] We get that you like RnG, and you can still maintain it, but do not have it as the main limiting factor in the game. It kicks too many teeth out,[spoiler] and the “It’s more likely to kick your teeth in” commercial always painfully pronounces itself in these frequently occuring moments…[/spoiler]
[
] If you make Cobalts so easy to get, it also makes getting cards during events worth MUCH MUCH MORE. Doing this allows your events to become the main ways for you guys to make money, and doing events means you guys can focus on the more fun parts you actually enjoy, rather than just fixing the game. ESPECIALLY when trading comes out.

[*] Genius mode activated: If you can find a way to make the new system with Lore more involved, it would be cool. So maybe as you unlock cobalt options, you unlock different pieces of backgrounds of characters. So if people wanted to learn all of the lore and the storylines and stuff, they’d work hard to get ALL of the cobalts for their waifus and junk. CRAP you could even expand the DB universe and add storylines that are hidden in the different loadouts, with a little feature to play different missions because of the cards you’ve unlocked. So players that don’t want to “Grind” and only want to play the storyline, spend real-money to get these cobalts faster. Then this makes crafting all of these Cobalts the ultimate reward.

[*] I have the honest feeling, that once trading comes out, and if lore is involved with how I mentioned above, then it will revive your community. Kinda like Pokemon… :neutral:

[/list][/quote][/spoiler]


(Xenithos) #3


Edit: Hey! I figured out a way to re-purpose crafting kits!
Allow crafting kits to be used to convert gen 1 and gen 2 cards to the other generations of cards. Allowing people to craft ANY FUDGING BEAUTIFUL CARD THEY WANT!!! MUAHAAHA!
Also, allow crafting kits to be made with credits and utility kits so it’s not completely p2convert.

Kah Herp-derp.


(X-aited) #4

Maybe i didn’t understand your System perfectly…

With Bling Fragments i can craft Gold and Cobalt. I get Bling Fragment of Silver and higher cards. (I Like the necessity of crafting a Silver Card).

But then i can go straight to Cobalt and i can totally ignore Gold. <- This is something i don’t like. Maybe this one will resolve in itself as people like Gold more than Cobalt. I for sure won’t craft any Cobalt with any System given.

Btw. if you would introduce Bling-Bling Fragments between Gold and Cobalt you have back the old System in disguise.

For Event-Cards: I would rather see a reroll Option for them… 1 Card + x Credits and you can reroll the card for the same merc on the same skin. Who got a sh*tgun Proxy culprit and wanted a Hochfir? If you just don’t like ther merc you will be able to trade them soon™


(yenku) #5

Hello, I did read it all and, honestly I feel confused now about your idea of fixing crafting.

I would like to know what ideas, they (the developers) , have in mind, to rework the crafting/trading system.
And I would like to know, of course, as soon as possible because they said they will be more transparent toward us.

I personally would not like an over complicated system:

  • I liked the old system because, progression apart, sometimes RNG was good and we got a good loadout, if not, we could use that card for futures trade up, you know.
  • I like the current system because it goes straight to the point. You want ammo ? ehm… Cobalt ? Just grind till you can craft it. You might need a whole life tho.

I would like to have both system, I would like to decide to use my bad RNG gift in tradeup or recycle it.

The current credits cost and fragments requirement are ridiculous.

I did really enjoy the crafting week. Those fragments requirement felt fair.
At least I was able to re-roll a cobalt.

Glad there a people like you @Xenithos willing to put down such detailed ideas.
I honestly lost a good amount of hope in any improvements right now.

Maybe in another thread but, I’d like to know what people think about character skins.


(Xenithos) #6

[quote=“Xaited;204123”] SNIP

Btw. if you would introduce Bling-Bling Fragments between Gold and Cobalt you have back the old System in disguise.

For Event-Cards: I would rather see a reroll Option for them… 1 Card + x Credits and you can reroll the card for the same merc on the same skin. Who got a sh*tgun Proxy culprit and wanted a Hochfir? If you just don’t like ther merc you will be able to trade them soon™[/quote]
With bling fragments you can craft silvers, golds, and cobalts. Silver is the only loadout allowed to be crafted by both types.

Hi Xaited! This point right here is one of the reasons I think separating them into only two fragment groups is important. (We don’t want to fully bring back the old system) Sure, we can skip golds and go straight to cobalts, but it still puts back far more progression into the system that what exists currently, and into designing WHAT we want, rather than RnG attacking the highest stuff possible.

As for Event-Cards: What you want is actually something that’s been discussed, but I thought developers said rerolling event cards was never going to happen because they were intended to be rare. And allowing people to re-roll cards with credits allows DB to screw many of the people that paid with real life money over the few players that won one or two. Developers have said however that they are working towards conversion: Allowing cards to be updated to gen 2, and possibly back to gen 1; this is why I included my idea of also fixing crafting kits.

I completely understand your desires though to change the loadout to one you’ll use; however, maybe you should keep in mind that Developers also want to incorporate trading Soon™. This means you can instead trade this loadout with someone who does want a shotgun for something else.


(Xenithos) #7

[quote=“flease;204124”]Hello, I did read it all and, honestly I feel confused now about your idea of fixing crafting.

[/quote]
I appreciate your feedback and your thanks Flease. One quick thing, please tell me you read only the first post, and not the other two following, the first one is the main one that describes everything.

I thought it was still simple to only separate fragments into two groups. :sweat: I guess it wasn’t as simple as I thought. :disappointed:


(TheStrangerous) #8

Oh boy, my head explodes.
Creating more different currencies makes things needlessly convoluted.
Remember those credit cycles, from ReV event? I appreciate the effort you put into your idea though.


(Xenithos) #9

[quote=“TheStrangerous;204197”]Oh boy, my head explodes.
Creating more different currencies makes things needlessly convoluted.
Remember those credit cycles, from ReV event? I appreciate the effort you put into your idea though.[/quote]

Am I really confusing everyone just by saying separate fragments into two groups and allow more of the paid items and game flow paths into those different groups based on their names?

Thanks for the thanks though! :3 I do in fact remember the Credit cycles, they ticked everyone off. This idea is very different from that one. IMO that one was retarded.

Question for you: If it’s “needlessly” convoluted: What would you do to fix the system?
Edit: I just read your post in the announcements section, and you mostly like the current system.
You’d much rather just have developers work on maps, and bugs and etc.


(TheStrangerous) #10

[quote=“Xenithos;204198”][quote=“TheStrangerous;204197”]Oh boy, my head explodes.
Creating more different currencies makes things needlessly convoluted.
Remember those credit cycles, from ReV event? I appreciate the effort you put into your idea though.[/quote]

Am I really confusing everyone just by saying separate fragments into two groups and allow more of the paid items and game flow paths into those different groups based on their names?

Thanks for the thanks though! :3 I do in fact remember the Credit cycles, they ticked everyone off. This idea is very different from that one. IMO that one was retarded.

Question for you: If it’s “needlessly” convoluted: What would you do to fix the system?
Edit: I just read your post in the announcements section, and you mostly like the current system.
You’d much rather just have developers work on maps, and bugs and etc.[/quote]

It’s the recycling system itself I like, to be precise. While crafting does throw the progress away, for those who strive for higher rarity skins, I do agree.

The only idea I thought of fixing crafting were blueprints, by combining lower tier card weapons/augments into few possible results. Much like TF2’s crafting blueprints. That’s all I got.


(Dysfnal) #11

I still think that you should pay to recycle cards, and have crafting only cost fragments, why? It could cost less credits to craft cobalt with gold than with leads, it completely remedies one of the big problems with the system, vets and paying players will no longer get screwed over


(Dysfnal) #12

It provides part of Vanilla’s solution while being far simpler, and simpler is nearly always better


(Cletus_VanDamme) #13

Waaaaay too complicated for a game where new players struggle to grasp the concept of ‘Press E for ammo’.


(Xenithos) #14

In my opinion they’re slow (idiots) anyway. I understood e for ammo and charging defibs since I was level 1.
Also, I see you still dislike ‘stuff.’