When you buy a copy of RTCW, you essentially buy a limited license to use the intellectual property (textures, models, etc) inside the game to support play by others who paid to hold the same license. This means that I can use textures and models to support play by others who have purchased RTCW only, not Quake 3, not Elite Forces, not ET (all games powered by the Quake 3 engine)
If you were to use RTCW textures and models in ET maps, you are essentially paying once for a license and then distributing Id/SD/ATVI content for free. As the original owners of the IP, I’d say they have a right to dictate where, when, and how their IP can be used - whether we agree or not.
Now, can they come after you? Sure. If I recall, Sock (correct me if I’m wrong) compiled an extensive package of recolored/redone Q3 textures for the Q3 mapping community that was supposed to be quite good. id asked him to remove it and to stop distribution, since they were modifications of their original work
Hey I just bought a can of coke. By your reasoning I’m now entitled to walk off with any and all other coke products for free.
RTCW <> ET. They are seperate products, dealt with individually.
ET is NOT (basically or otherwise) an expansion pack for RTCW. If it was, you’d have to own RTCW before, and pay for ET. Now which would you rather have? Using your logic, RTCW is simply an expansion pack for Q3…
Updating your RTCW maps to ET IS NOT HARD. I really don’t know why everyone thinks it is. Sure the first thing most people see when they get their RTCW map into ET is a whole load of yellow and black squares, but search and replace will quickly sort that out. If you’ve spent a year building your map, are you really not prepared to spend the few hours it would take to make it work properly in ET?
The bottom line is people are lazy, pure and simple. It’s so stupid its funny - the correct way of updating a map to ET is NOT HARD OR TIME CONSUMING. Seriously - most maps are made of a few key textures - change half a dozen RTCW textures to ET ones and you’ll probably get rid of 75% of your yellow/black pattern
Using RTCW textures by simply copying them and their shaders across directly is what fucks up other mappers / maps. THIS is the no go bit.
Really if you are prepared to use RTCW textures PROPERLY then you need to rename them all, copy them into a subdirectory purely for your map’s textures (unique name please!), then copy the shaders across, and rename them to give them unique names, and change their script to point to your new textures.
Then what you end up with is a bunch of illegal textures, but ones that DON’T mess other people’s setups up.
Of course, it’s actually quicker / easier just to use ET ones, then you don’t have to worry about shaders or textures at all \o/
Personally I couldn’t give a damn about people actually stealing RTCW textures - it’s not my job to be Activision’s lawyers (although I do find it amusing pointing it out to people ), but anyone who releases a map that will fuck up my (and every other ET mapper’s) mapping, then I’m going to name and shame them and recommend their maps be deleted.
So finally, if people want to use them, then that’s entirely up to them (IE it’s at their own risk).
Common courtesy to other mappers simply means you shouldn’t mess up their hard work while doing it shrugs
So, to sum up.
ET = 1 game
RTCW = completely different game
Copying RTCW textures = up to you but illegal
Copying RTCW textures directly and causing problems for other mappers / maps = extremely bad and will cause people to hate you
Damocles, when you buy RTCW, you are not (just) buying a copy of the software. You are buying a license to use it. To use it at all, you must accept the terms of the license. They can put whatever terms they like in the license, and revoke it at any time. There are some questions on the enforcability of these licenses, and they may not be valid in all jurisdictions, but unless you are willing to challenge them in court, it is a good idea to abide by their terms. So generic copyright (such as what applies to a book or music CD) is not terribly relevent.
That said, I would be surprised if id/activision took legal action against someone for using a few RTCW assets in an ET map. If they noticed it at all, they would almost certainly ask you to stop distributing it first. It is one of those things like speeding. It’s illegal, but many people do it. Even off duty cops do it. OTOH, respecting the wishes of the orginal authors is hardly a bad thing.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice :moo:
edit:
I agree with gerbil. You copying RTCW assets is between you, activisions lawyers, and your own conscience. Not respecting namespaces in ways that makes other peoples work more difficult is an affront to all of us.
Damocles, when you buy RTCW, you are not (just) buying a copy of the software. You are buying a license to use it. To use it at all, you must accept the terms of the license…So generic copyright (such as what applies to a book or music CD) is not terribly relevent
This isn’t about the EULA, this is about content and IP. The EULA relates to the software as an entity, whereas distributing content from within the software falls under the IP copyright laws.
As part of the EULA, Activision could quite happily turn around and revoke your usage of RTCW and legally force you to remove it from your system should they deem you in violation of the agreement. However, the content therein, because it is available publically, falls under IP rights just like any other content, digital or otherwise.
And as I mentioned above, and as someone else brought up, the good samaritan clause is applied when the newly created content is aiding the original owners. As new maps for ET are in fact aiding in the longevity of an atvi product, albeit a non-profit mis-adventure product, the no redistribution copyrights are disputable at best. Just remember to provide credit where it is due. Usually it is lack of credit that provokes the majority of copyright legal action. With the rest being from greed.
And Reyalp mentioned, be it on your own conciences and atvi’s laywers as to wether or not you should release maps using some RTCW content. Just don’t screw up everyone else’s mapping by copying them straight out of your RTCW folders!
The EULA restricts what you can do with the content, including specific restrictions on modification and redistribution. Of course, you must also abide by copyright laws. So while distributing assets might not be a violation of copyright law, I’m pretty sure it IS a breach of contract. I don’t see what you mean by saying the content is available publicly. To obtain it, you must purchase a license. To load it onto a computer, you must agree to the license. (there are some exceptions that you can download from the id CVS, which neither have a copyright notice in the file, nor require you to accept a EULA to get them. It seems that these might fall under plain copyright, although the license.txt in the file directory might be sufficient to override this. )
The premitted new creations stuff states very clearly that the new creations must only work with the original game.
I don’t see how the good sameritan stuff would apply either, becuase by porting RTCW stuff to ET, you are potentially hurting RTCW sales.
Furthermore, a number of people from splash and id have clearly stated, that in their view, redistrubiting assets for other games is NOT permitted. You might be able to challenge this in court, but I bet id can spend more on lawyers than all of us put together.
Yes game companies are stealers… they cry because we download their game for free … but do we really have to pay 80 CND $ ( 56.74 USD) for a game?? It’s non-sense! Take the PS2 per exemple… the console costs abot 200$ and eatch game costs about 80 CND $ ( 56.74 USD)… add all the numbers and you get a very high price… 30$(usd) would be WAY enough…more ppl would buy it…less hacking…voilà . wow you lose about 1 millions…yeah seems big but wyen you sell a couple million of copies…your rich enough! I thank Splash or whoever for giving us a great FREE game. But there is a reason behind that. Sincerely , InFeStEd
Atari owns
Oh and by the way … You SHOULD steal satelite signals… your getting irradiated by them anyways.
Cool, so as long as the faceless corporation makes enough money, it’s ok to steal? Did I miss something? I’m heading down to the nearest auto lot to steal me a car - GM makes more than enough money
I don’t see how the good sameritan stuff would apply either, becuase by porting RTCW stuff to ET, you are potentially hurting RTCW sales.
Furthermore, a number of people from splash and id have clearly stated, that in their view, redistrubiting assets for other games is NOT permitted. You might be able to challenge this in court, but I bet id can spend more on lawyers than all of us put together.
Well, besides the fact that people are gonna use whatever resources they want for a map…I just want to add that I totally disagree that we are gonna hurt RTCW sales. The only thing that is hurting RTCW sales right now is ET itself. Its a great game, and I dont ever play classic RTCW anymore. Like others and I believe, we are HELPING the RTCW community by making more maps, period. If it wasnt for mappers, Quake 3 Arena never would’ve had the longevity it has had. This is why ET was created and released for free…to bring in more people into the RTCW gaming community. Besides the original 6 maps though…how many maps are there for ET?? Maybe the original creators of Tram and other very good RTCW maps can port them over to ET.
As for ID or anyone else spending on lawyers…do you really think they want to do that?? Spend money to go after someone who is mapping for free, with no monetary benefit to the mapper short of recognition? Is that what they really want?
maybe if u understood why game developers make miillions…could be simplier :moo:
just think, u see programs out there like tax cut and crap… u thinkt hey made millions… game developers make more because the game is like photoshop, model viewing, coding, etc all in one…
sigh
<rant>
Get off your lazy arse and get into the real world.
Game companies spend tens of millions on major games, and using common bussiness logic which a 10 yr old can understand is that game companies are out there to make money. End of story.
In all honesty they don’t really care about you. Your just another potential customer. So if you can’t afford to buy the game, tough. Do you really need it? No, its a luxuary so STFU.
Get out there and save up for it. And stop bitching about them making to much money. They’re a freaking bussines!
</rant>
Man you guys suck… all I said that videogames companies make alot of money and ppl complain thats its not true…then they complain bla bla… If you can afford it DOWNLOAD IT lol! Anyways I really on’t care cuz VGI is my future I alreayd know ppl at EA games witch is the richier and the bigger game VGI ever so… They make millions… I want millions we all want money: but one thing remain: prices could be cheaper… wouldn’t they make more money if they sold it something like 50 cnd ( ± 35$ us) ? more copies would be sold and everything… Anyways have fun, enjoy!
No they wouldn’t. The reason the current prices are so high is not because they are greedy blood suckers, but because it costs a stupid amount of money to make a top quality game. Budgets quite often run into millions of dollars just for one game, and a lot of the time, these games get canned by executives in suits that think the game won’t sell because it is too original and not another clone or sequel.
Games developers are the last people to be blaming. Blame publishing companies (like EA, a very notable offender). They are the ones that pay the salaries of the game developers, and they don’t pay much. They really don’t pay much at all. Most game developers are on pretty crappy wages and do the work because they love it, not because the pay is good. They work stupid amounts of unpaid overtime and are never appreciated properly by publishers.
The only people that make millions in the games industry are the lucky few that manage to break free of being a normal game developer and earn the respect of the publishers by designing and selling a massive blockbuster. Once you have one stupidly popular title, a publisher would be willing to give you a raise and the chance to make a proper game. Only a handful of all the thousands of developers out there ever acheive this status, and because they get an almost celebrity like status, everyone immediately assumes that they must be the norm for the industry. It’s like assuming that every actor in the world get’s a million dollars per film when really it’s like 1% of all actors get that.
Game development is one of the most thankless, hardest most cut-throat professions in the world today and the publishers are slowly strangling the fun and life out of it. Publishers have become so greedy and have so much power these days they make hollywood executives look like charity workers.
And as if it wasn’t bad enough that games developers get paid squat, their only hope of getting more is to make a game that sells really well. So off they go, spend three years making a great game that would sell well, only to find every son of a bitch has gone and downloaded it halving the sales figures.
People will try and tell you piracy is harmless and the lost sales get absorbed or “I wasn’t going to buy it anyway so it’s no harm done” but it’s all bollocks. Between publishers and piracy, we’ll be lucky if the games industry lasts another 10-15 years. Something has to change, and do you really think it’s going to be the publishers?
True, I spent a long time filling in the holes in the Q3 gothic texture set so people could use various decals on all the different floor/wall variants. It was a complimently texture set based on their original work. Then I got a mail from ID telling me to remove my work from my site and any other site. Someone had decided to use my modified texture pack in another game and this seriously went against the EULA.
), but anyone who releases a map that will fuck up my (and every other ET mapper’s) mapping, then I’m going to name and shame them and recommend their maps be deleted.
