Update sizes

(Octosquid) #1

I’ve asked before but seriously, what is with the hotfix update sizes? Usually, shouldn’t a bug fix update be max 200mb or so? Why 1.7gb? I mean, for the rest of the world, it probably won’t even matter, but down here in Australia, the internet sucks. On top of that, my own internet, is so shit that its bad for Australian standards, with a download rate of 120 kb/s or so on steam. I mean, I’d understand if it was a content patch but its just bug fixes, so why is it so big??

(gg2ez) #2

As a fellow AUS player - I know that feel.

But it doesn’t matter to me, a hotfix is a hotfix and I’m glad that SD is putting effort into them. They must be significant if they’re that size.

(Jan S.) #3

I heard 2 versions about it, so here they are:

  • It’s an Unreal engine thing, this is how it does updates

I do not trust this one, at all, because Borderlands updates are not that big and last huge one was about 70 MB

  • It’s a cleaner way of updating a game, it downloads the whole group of files instead of just the ones actually updated

This seems more likely, but it is stupid why they do this even for small hotfixes (fixed 4 bugs, 800MB update).

(Octosquid) #4

[quote=“gg2ez;108948”]As a fellow AUS player - I know that feel.

But it doesn’t matter to me, a hotfix is a hotfix and I’m glad that SD is putting effort into them. They must be significant if they’re that size.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m grateful that there are hotfixes and of course large sized hotfixes > no hotfixes but its just frustrating sometimes waiting 5 or 6 hours to finally play and by then I have to go to sleep.

(Faraleth) #5

@JohnS “Borderlands 2 was developed by Gearbox Software and published by 2K Games, running on a heavily modified version of Epic Games’ Unreal Engine 3” - Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderlands_2#Development (Check citations for further information)

Dirty Bomb runs on an unmodified version of the Unreal Engine as far as I can tell/know, and thus the way the game is updated, ALL packages have to be updated else you will get reading errors, it’s just the way UE3 works. I have used it quite a lot, trust me, without extensive modification and path re-writes (which basically involves redesigning and modifying how the engine pulls data) there is no way to shrink updates to so small.

In the case of the Borderlands updates being around 70mb, those might not even edit any of the essential packages, so there is no need for a full update. :slight_smile:

(Mister__Wiggles) #6

I’m sure I read somewhere that updates will always be that size because core games files will have to downloaded every new update. Unreal engine 3 is awful to build on that I do know. UE4 however is so easy that my dog could probably animate himself, hope they make the jump when this game is out of beta.

(gg2ez) #7

[quote=“Octosquid;108971”][quote=“gg2ez;108948”]As a fellow AUS player - I know that feel.

But it doesn’t matter to me, a hotfix is a hotfix and I’m glad that SD is putting effort into them. They must be significant if they’re that size.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m grateful that there are hotfixes and of course large sized hotfixes > no hotfixes but its just frustrating sometimes waiting 5 or 6 hours to finally play and by then I have to go to sleep.[/quote]

I’m getting National Broadband Network soon. Hopefully it won’t be too long until all of Australia has updated its internet services.

(Mister__Wiggles) #8

@gg2ez
I had no idea internet in Aus was that bad?! And theres me complaining that my 110 down and 35 up is too slow…

(Jan S.) #9

@Faraleth Thanks for clarification :slight_smile: I think this information should be included somewhere through, I’ve ran into many people confused by update sizes

(B_Montiel) #10

I guess they kept the original compressing method of UE3. Unless they rework it heavily, this somehow forces to re-download a whole package if it got modified. On a plus side though, this is quite efficient on disk space savings. Every UE3 games which kept this system rarely use more than 5-6 Go on your disk. I don’t know about borderlands 2, but I would not be surprised that it reaches way over 10Go (if it runs un-compressed, which I seriously doubt). Personally, this allows me to keep DB on my tiny SSD without fearing that it takes half of its size.

Yes, it’s a pain in the ass to get 1,5+ Go to download at every patch for people who have poor broadband, but on the plus side, you don’t get flooded space like you can have with source engine games or GTA5. And you don’t have to download 12 Go at your first installation as well.

(Grum_Laban) #11

Well, if they make big tweaks to Dome, they need to ship that whole map again. Plus new and modified sound effects, modified animations, new and tweaked U.I. elements etc. It all adds up to a sizable patch/update. These patches are not just the executable and a bit of CSS.

(kibloy) #12

[quote=“Mister__Wiggles;109131”]@gg2ez
I had no idea internet in Aus was that bad?! And theres me complaining that my 110 down and 35 up is too slow…[/quote]
I’m curious what it is you frequently do that makes you complain about 110mbits being too slow :expressionless:

(Mister__Wiggles) #13

@kibloy
Consider my line is capable of up to 250mb I feel I need more. Power complex I guess :confused: lol

(Amerika) #14

[quote=“JohnS;108961”]I heard 2 versions about it, so here they are:

  • It’s an Unreal engine thing, this is how it does updates

I do not trust this one, at all, because Borderlands updates are not that big and last huge one was about 70 MB

  • It’s a cleaner way of updating a game, it downloads the whole group of files instead of just the ones actually updated

This seems more likely, but it is stupid why they do this even for small hotfixes (fixed 4 bugs, 800MB update).[/quote]

Borderlands games get around this because they developed around UE3 and built their own packages outside of the default compression structure of UE3. Which reduces the size of patches since they aren’t replacing a ton of untouched core files every time they need to make a change. They only patch/replace their small chunks. SD, apparently, didn’t know to do this (the engine was probably new to most of them at the time) or chose to not care and instead have kept just about everything default UE3. Which includes the directories still being named UE3 defaults and even the games executable being named Shootergame.exe when you take a look at it.

Hopefully, at some point down the road, SD will do a massive cleanup effort with the directory structure, file names and packaging and make things look a bit less like a weekend project and more like a professional game. With the side benefit of not making people download 1.2 to 1.7gb every time they want to do a small patch.

(iGeeBee) #15

MissMurder and Shoe said in the stream - I think it was Weds - that they won’t be updating to UE4 any time soon. I believe MissMurder joked with something along the lines of “maybe twenty years from now.”

(SereneFlight) #16

[quote=“Faraleth;109029”]@JohnS “Borderlands 2 was developed by Gearbox Software and published by 2K Games, running on a heavily modified version of Epic Games’ Unreal Engine 3” - Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderlands_2#Development (Check citations for further information)

Dirty Bomb runs on an unmodified version of the Unreal Engine as far as I can tell/know, and thus the way the game is updated, ALL packages have to be updated else you will get reading errors, it’s just the way UE3 works. I have used it quite a lot, trust me, without extensive modification and path re-writes (which basically involves redesigning and modifying how the engine pulls data) there is no way to shrink updates to so small.

In the case of the Borderlands updates being around 70mb, those might not even edit any of the essential packages, so there is no need for a full update. :)[/quote]
Mmmm I can agree with this just because Killing Floor 2, which runs on modified UE 3 engine as well.
The latest content update was ~4GB big and contained 2 maps, 2 classes, 1 class redone, 12,5 weapons (one being a dual pistols so that’s the half), 2 characters, few features, lots and lots of changes, improvements, fixes and stuff… yeah, I can believe that being 4GB update no problem.

(Jan S.) #17

@Amerika

Hopefully, at some point down the road, SD will do a massive cleanup effort with the directory structure, file names and packaging and make things look a bit less like a weekend project and more like a professional game. With the side benefit of not making people download 1.2 to 1.7gb every time they want to do a small patch.

Sounds like the right stuff to do before leaving open beta.

Again, thank you all for clarification :slight_smile:

(CCP115) #18

You guys should be glad it doesn’t ruin on the Payday 2 engine, Diesel I think.

A 200 MB patch takes an hour to install. Maybe it’s just my harddrive being slow, but the damn updates take a ridiculous amount of time to write to disk.

(Amerika) #19

[quote=“CCP115;109262”]You guys should be glad it doesn’t ruin on the Payday 2 engine, Diesel I think.

A 200 MB patch takes an hour to install. Maybe it’s just my harddrive being slow, but the damn updates take a ridiculous amount of time to write to disk.[/quote]

Are you enjoying all those new microtransactions Overkill has been adding lately?