Trickjump thread.

(Glottis-3D) #1

some thoughts on thrickjumps here.

  1. they(wall jumps) are very inconsistent. the vector of wall jump seems to be very weird sometimes. this may be connected with laggs and performance. sometimes when i have fps drops or laggs i miss even the easiest double wall jumps.

  2. forward walljump. this need to be in the game. because it seems very strange - you can jump on a box via side walljump and you cannot do it straight forward. if you dont want wall-climbing, then make some penalties. but when a merc makes a longjump, he has very good forward momentum and he waljumps forward off a box he definitely can get ON that box. either use the momentum of sprint or longjump, OR add more aircontrol. forward walljumps onto a box is a very logical thing.

  3. stated already before by different ppl. Trickjumps need to be an integral part of the fight. be much much more like quake and UT, warsow, xonotic etc. and this leads to trickjump routes have to be in places, where fight actually take place.

(Glottis-3D) #2

and also i would love DB to have some kind of team-interaction tricks.

  1. team pushes (mb with little bit of damage, but with additional momentum)
  2. team ladders
  3. some combination of above. i can see a very fun thing, when a teammate is making a long jump onto his buddy and gets additional momentum from him and jumps realy realy high.
(Kl3ppy) #3

How far is the movement implementation process? I still have the feeling that the walljumps, longjumps etc are just an attempt to cover the poor movement system. Most of the are useless and look like a gimmick. This impression may come from the maps which are not ready for this sort of movement.

But it would be cool if we get some trick jumps like in ETQW which really gave an advantage when the jumps were performed. Currently there is no real advantage (shortcut or better position) performing trickjumps.

(Violator) #4

I find walljumping very inconsistent and unnatural especially in corners - I just don’t get how to dictate the angle I want to bounce off, it feels like its out of my control and random. The only thing that seems to work kind of is when the wall is flat where you can get a good speed boost and you can get some air control with a bit of effort.

Non-wall jumping is a waste of time, no speed benefit (in fact it slows you down) and the jump momentum limit mechanic put paid to that.

The crouch long jump is too fiddly to use in the heat of battle.

(tokamak) #5

I agree with that it feels random. If a trick jump fails I never really understood what part I did wrong. It’s more like a roll of the dice.

This isn’t bad if you spent time on an empty server trying fancy moves, but in combat you want to have some kind of certainty that your skill will complete the wall-jump. If it fails in combat you’re screwed which means that players will rather just stick to ordinary gunplay than risk a screwed up jump.

In other wordse, I’m all for high-skilled movement, but trick-jumps should also be a part of the decision-making process. The ups of acquiring a better position versus the downs of exposing yourself by going airborne should be the biggest choice. Whether the actual jump works should be less of a factor.

(Anti) #6

Question for you guys, do you hold the forwards key whilst doing wall jumps?

(Kl3ppy) #7

Yes

+10 chars

(Anti) #8

OK, we’ll maybe take a look at that again then.

I had this same issue after the last round of balancing and the problem was I was always pressing forwards whilst I was turning in the air after the wall jump. With the air control the game has the process of turning + forwards is actually ‘eating’ some of your momentum during the turn, so the rate you turn at dictates how much of the wall jump’s force you might lose.

In the short term try being already partially turned towards your destination at the point you do the wall jump, you should find it’s more effective as you’ll lose less momentum.

(Mustang) #9

Most of this still applies: http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/39606-Wall-jump-feedback

(tokamak) #10

I found that releasing forward didn’t really help me much. Making a twist so I could land with my back towards the place where I wanted to be did help but that might be just in my head.

Releasing forward is incredibly counter-intuitive though. That’s not something players would be doing during tense moments.

(ToonBE) #11

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511357]and also i would love DB to have some kind of team-interaction tricks.

  1. team pushes (mb with little bit of damage, but with additional momentum)
  2. team ladders
  3. some combination of above. i can see a very fun thing, when a teammate is making a long jump onto his buddy and gets additional momentum from him and jumps realy realy high.[/QUOTE]

no just no

(ToonBE) #12

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;511356]
3. stated already before by different ppl. Trickjumps need to be an integral part of the fight. be much much more like quake and UT, warsow, xonotic etc. and this leads to trickjump routes have to be in places, where fight actually take place.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if I like that… you can trick jump to get faster somewhere but I don’t think it should influence the fight…

(tokamak) #13

It shouldn’t give you a direct combat advantage. At least not automatically. If anything it inherently gives you a direct disadvantage because you’re exposing more of yourself while doing complex jumps.

If those opportunities arise in intensely contested areas however, then players should be able to trade this moment of exposure for a better vantage point to control the battle from there. That is, if it’s a tactically correct choice. Depending on the context a trick jump could be brilliant or disastrous.

I mean, as it stands now DB has a better chance of living up to Brink’s promises than Brink itself.

//youtu.be/p-2p4GYF8eg

(Glottis-3D) #14

in this case trick routes become routine, less skill, i.e. loose their purpose (skill demanding actions) - increase skill ceiling.

(spookify) #15

I just do not like the gravity of the trick-jump especially with a shotgunner… Jumping half up the map is not cool…

It is also no secret I SUCK at trickjumping… I have to face away from where I am jumping and spin so my back is to where I am landing WTF… I cant even do simple jumps half the time because like ANTI said I am always pushing forward…


I honestly still have no idea why prone still isnt in this game… You can shoot under the RV sometimes and prone would be perfect for that or hide under a exploding car and take your chances… There are so many time when I get shot in the tip of my head because I can not back up anymore and prone would solve that too…There are only positives… And if you pull that BS that it slows down the game I will fly where ever and slap you…

Heck you could even do the stupid SD Nerf to prone like you did to player speeds… The larger the player the longer it takes to prone or get up from that prone… This might actually give medics a fighting chance against some of the bigger people…

(Glottis-3D) #16

most important step is to make jumps consistent. and make less wall-collisions corner-collisions etc.
so that anyone could do those tricks on a regular basis with some practise.

(spookify) #17

[QUOTE=tokamak;511374]It shouldn’t give you a direct combat advantage. At least not automatically. If anything it inherently gives you a direct disadvantage because you’re exposing more of yourself while doing complex jumps.

If those opportunities arise in intensely contested areas however, then players should be able to trade this moment of exposure for a better vantage point to control the battle from there. That is, if it’s a tactically correct choice. Depending on the context a trick jump could be brilliant or disastrous.

I mean, as it stands now DB has a better chance of living up to Brink’s promises than Brink itself.

//youtu.be/p-2p4GYF8eg
[/QUOTE]

Brink looked amazing!!! The spread and damage in that game was crazy… The movement was fine but I would have got rid of slide… Never felt like a shooter just a run around game with wide open spaces followed by really tight spaces with more spam that you could count… I also never really got the objectives…
All in all it took me only 20 hours if that to 100% quite brink and only about 2 or 3 days for my friends to totally give up.

That is actually around the same amount of time it took the to quit DB… About 2 or 3 days and they were done done… I am not even sure I can get them back for Open beta in 3 years… :wink:

(tokamak) #18

I honestly still have no idea why prone still isnt in this game… You can shoot under the RV sometimes and prone would be perfect for that or hide under a exploding car and take your chances… There are so many time when I get shot in the tip of my head because I can not back up anymore and prone would solve that too…There are only positives… And if you pull that BS that it slows down the game I will fly where ever and slap you…

I also still want prone and lean implemented.

(prophett) #19

Great trailer and agree about the spread/damage. Most of the maps were also pretty claustrophobic. Great looking game with nice movement.

(tokamak) #20

What stuck out to me in that trailer was our green protagonist guy sprinting through an alley while being chased by hoodie dude on the level above.

It can’t be that hard to recreate situations like that can it? Have a map with two distinct layers, bottom and top, have very little transition between them (except for trick jumps) but lots of ways for the top floor to control the lower floor. Basically a denser version of Dome.

And I know it must be hilarious to the devs to hear a request for a denser map after we’ve just been complaining about crowded maps but in this case it’s mostly compensated by the interaction between the two floors. That’s different from having single floor corridors.