'trickjump' maps

(stadilainen) #1

Anyone’s opinion will be appreciated, but I would like to hear what someone from SplashDamage has got to say in this matter.

There’s lots of trickjump maps around these days.
A lot of them include just custom jumps,(such as Indiana Jones Trickjump, DangerPlace)
some of them are just so called ‘GammaJumps’ where you have to gain speed by for example bunnyhoping from a pillar to another.

Then there are ‘original’ trickjump maps which contain the locations more or less modified from the official SplashDamage maps.[Fueldump, Railgun, Goldrush, Oasis, Battery, Radar]
For example I could take lnatrickjump and Toiletman trickjumps.

And finally to the point.
Is it wrong to modify the original maps for your own use, even if you modified just small parts to gather up ‘rooms/jump locations’?

(]UBC[ McNite) #2

I recommend you search the forum for any discussion on decompiling, and maybe use the keyword EULA.

This is the post that sums it up:
http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=10145&start=60

So, yea ripping parts of the standard maps is illegal in any case. If you want a discussion on the moral aspects I d see a difference between pure TJ maps and rips for conversions, but that s another story.
Here s a thread on this topic too: http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=10402&highlight=eula

As for ripping custom maps: check the readme for what you are allowed to do with them. A lot of mappers write down in the readme what a user of the map is allowed to do with it and what not.

(Shaderman) #3

[nonsense]
Is it wrong if I go in a bank and take only one gold bar (for my personal use of course - just to beautify my wallpaper at home) even if I could take more out of the safe? :smiley:
[/nonsense]

(stadilainen) #4

When I said ‘to modify the original maps for your own use’ I actually meant for other people as well :stuck_out_tongue:

(flower.Hercules) #5

I have to disagree with this. There is the law and their is common sense. Nobody is claiming the jumps they took out of the original maps are their own creations, that is nonsense. It isn’t like going into a bank and stealing anything, it is like … remixing 2 seconds from 50 different songs into a large mass. Big deal, you will always have people that will throw a fit and quote the end user license agreement and copyright laws and go on about IP, the fact is, I’m sure the guy that made Oasis doesn’t give a damn if Toiletman uses the walljump section to make a trickjump map. After all, who is to say that Toiletman didn’t make his own walljump that looks the same, you can’t tell me that is illegal. It would be like saying I can’t post a picture that I made that looks exactly like another piece of art on the internet … fan art comes to mind.

My answer: No, it isn’t wrong.

(flower.Hercules) #6

Here is a thought: in school, almost everybody is given an assignment to make a collage from newspaper and magazine clippings…looks like we need to start hauling a bunch of damn thieves in from our grade schools!

(DerSaidin) #7
  1. Prohibitions. You, whether directly or indirectly, shall not do any of the following acts:
    j. prepare or develop derivative works based upon the Software; or

derivative works… Like ETPro?

If they worried/cared about this then why release the source?

(kamikazee) #8

Since they give you permission to tinker around with the game source as stated in the EULA in that part of the software?

Actually, where ]UBC[ McNite is wrong is in the fact he doesn’t state what is defined as software.
Software is in my eyes binary code that can be exectuted by the pc on itself or trough another program. Maps on the other hand are data as the processor won’t understand a thing of it.

Now, I hope ]UBC[ McNite will be so kind to add the part where is cited what they think software is.

(RToiletman) #9

The first trickjump maps had to use the original jumps. I also included the most common jumps in Toiletman Trickjump 1. But nowadays a lot of new trickjump maps release and it’s just so sad to see that most of them have those original jumps. Trickjumping gets very boring if you gotta do this stuff over and over again in every map. That’s why I started to make ‘Funjumps’ or just selfmade jumps in Toiletman 2 and 3. I got most of my inspiration of other trickjump maps there and I didn’t like it. But now the work is almost done, Toiletman 4 Will be great for Trickjumpers. The original stuff stays, but there are loads of Funjumps, deadly jumps blablabla… Will release next monday :wink:

-Toiletman-

(EB) #10

:confused: had to ? HAD TO ? …hmmm…

(RToiletman) #11

To show the existence of these jumps. And of course so people could practice them.

(LaggingTom) #12

The existence of the jumps was known far, FAR before any of the Toiletman jumps.

(EB) #13

You could have waited until after X-mas to crush his MOJO. :stuck_out_tongue: :lol: :nag: :nag: :nag: :wink:

(flower.Hercules) #14

I hate reading anything by LaggingTom, I’ve never seen him say one worthwhile or constructive thing, moving on…no mojo was crushed :slight_smile: Obviously, Toiletman didn’t just throw random parts of maps into a map and label it a trickjump map…you don’t start with nothing, build at random, and come out with something of the same subject matter in a form that is useful. He put … trickjumps :moo: into his trickjump maps. PRO JUMPERS like LaggingTom with huge sigs don’t necessarily need a trickjump map to show that jumps are there, but the average ET player that haven’t dedicated a portion of their ET time to trickjumping and making trickjump videos don’t know about them. Also, you conveniently ignored his strongest point: “And of course so people could practice them.”. That, in itself, builds the strongest case for the whole issue over ripping sections of original and custom maps to put into a trickjump map.

He had to be done for redudancy. You can’t start with something specifically original without the general idea in the first place. It is like going straight to Paper Mario without first having Super Mario Brothers :confused:

:banana:

(EB) #15

::leaves thread::

(R3ap4r) #16

Hmm, so if the original stuff stays, no sweat, beginners will have a blast at them trying to do them.
But by saying that alot of NEW trickjump maps still have the same jumps (? custom or whatever u mean by that) is wrong imho.
I’m not going to summon them all up but people like Fate,Roeltje,Cpt Hank, Pale,Make
have made (or whatever u may call it) some good trickjump maps WICH include the standard
jumps that we all know or have seen before, but they made or atleast tried to build it so
that u can/have to do them differently.
Imo there lies the true power of TJ-maps, same jumps BUT doing them different.
As time goes by, people invent or stumble onto new trickjumps and that’s something to encourage.
Everyone has their favourite trickjump map,wether it be Area51_alpha or TutorialJump.
Me personally didn’t see much difference between the last ToiletMan versions but WHO cares?
Fun jumps are as what they are supposed to be, FUN !!!
To see if it’s possible to do them with or without pmove,fps43,76,125,333…

Toiletman, don’t get me wrong, i just used a quote from u to explain myself, me personally
practised alot on your maps to get the hang of it and i thank u for that cos imo for a starting
trickjumper, toiletman 3.1 is one of the best maps for learning.

And i’m really curious as how to ur next jump map will be, hope to see u sometime
on Sjappie,Worrum or DooC TJ server when it’s released.

(RToiletman) #17

LaggingTom said:

The existence of the jumps was known far, FAR before any of the Toiletman jumps.

I never said I made the first map with those jumps…

And to R3ap4r:

The servers you named will certainly rotate them :banana:

(]UBC[ McNite) #18

@ kamikaze:
If you had just opened your License.rtf within the docs folder of ET, you could ve most likely found the definition of what the “software” is in their eyes (and therefor is for you too). Just for the fun of answering your post which does read a bit like a my-mother-knows-about-law i bring to you what you agreed to when you downloaded ET:

THE GAME PROGRAM ENTITLED WOLFENSTEINâ„¢: ENEMY TERRITORYâ„¢ (THE “SOFTWARE”)

So the whole game is the “software”. You might start nit-picking now, but that s up to you. In that case I recommend you read the 2nd sentence of paragraph 1. To make it easier for you, its pasted it into this white box:

The term “Software” includes all elements of the Software, including, without limitation, data files and screen displays.

Where kamikaze is dead wrong is to think he can start a discussion on what an Eula could possible mean and what maybe (in his eyes) not… you can bet its cearly stated in the Eula.
The Eula for ET covers everything you downloaded in the ~265mb, and that s it. End of discussion.

(kamikazee) #19

I’m not discussing what’s in the EULA, I only tried to say (in my bad way) you forgot to add this piece to your original post as well. It is an important part, in my eyes.
So no further discussion, the rest of your original post is comletely right. :wink:

(EB) #20

I love it when people are nice to each other…makes life so much better.