Trainyard trainwreck

(jubilantManatee) #1

Just returned to DB. Enjoying it way too much for a free game.

I browsed the upcoming Trainyard changes.

Most seem ok, but a few seem questionable, or downright wrong.

The opening up of the machine gun emplacement to the defenders spawn. Lets not promote spawn camping please. In what way is that a positive change?

Also, the closing of the window to the building on the right side approach. I have never seen it abused in any match. As a defender, its a vantage point. As an attacker, its a grenade goalpost to help clear entrenched defenders.

Closing the window also closes gameplay options, and so deminishes replayability.

Can anyone explain why those changes are good ideas?

(MisterBadmin) #2

First stage is VERY defender biased, the changes are to make it easier to attack and harder to defend.

The machine gun line of sight ISN’T into spawn, it locks down the fastest route FROM spawn to the plant site. If the attacker’s have MG control, you have to push through right and take them out or go through gate (if it’s open) or flank around under the tracks.

The window is stupidly useful as Arty, Kira or a sniper. From that position, you have line of sight to the 3 ways out of spawn (attacker’s right towards ammo, center through the riverbed and left towards MG) and to the MG if anyone tries to control it. Closing the window makes it almost impossible to get line of sight to the right position, along with making it more difficult to cover the path to MG. That makes it so much harder to force the attackers back into to their spawn.

There are already plenty of gameplay options for pretty much every class on Trainyard, closing a few of them to limit the defender’s advantage and reduce spawncamps is a necessary evil.

(jubilantManatee) #3

From what the photos show of both sides of the MG, it looks to go right into the defender spawn.

The window, ive never seen it dominated by any class. It just seemed like an extra option for gameplay, with counter sniping or sneaky nades \ molotovs \ eggs of death.

Ill not like that options are being reduced.

(Dawnlazy) #4

I frankly disagree with that, IMO it’s one of the most well balanced objectives in the game. 2nd is very def sided since you just have to lock down 2 easy chokepoints and the 3rd is insanely hard to attack with that awfully distant spawn.

(jubilantManatee) #5

According to photos, the third obj spawn is moving closer, which is probably a good idea. The trek in that section was tume consuming.

I never timed it, though using speedy Proxy and sneaking on through the bridge flank was quite a journey. And it often ended in meeting an less squishy enemy which promptly restarted the long journey

The removal of the window in the first obj is a strategic dumbing down of the map. Now the most prominent aspect of that area will be corner camping with shotguns in the entrance. With no variety ie a random arty\sniper\weird nade tosser in the window on occasion.

The window is a fun target practice for snipers clearing the window for their teammates.

Dirty bombs map compositions are unique a varied. I m intrigued by map changes, though I would like to see the changes be for the better.

(GatoCommodore) #6

[quote=“jubilantManatee;206831”]

The removal of the window in the first obj is a strategic dumbing down of the map.[/quote]

you damn right it is. They are catering to noobies and making this game splishy splashy summer squirt and everyone wins.

this is the second downhill, the next stop is graveyard.

(jubilantManatee) #7

I would not go that far- and since youre so negative, why are you here?

It will still be a fun game, i just hope the changes all play out well.

As well as hopefully im providing constructive feedback on a potentially less enjoyable change.

I think if anything, put a short fenceline/obstruction in the field approaching the window, so attackers could sprint to cover and advance to the building in stages. Lots of potential for interesting gunfights.

(Madonna_) #8

I tought this would have been a thread on that goddamn wreck that silently block many newbies everyday trying to run at the third obj

(HunterAssassin5) #9

i think that’s been fixed.

(GatoCommodore) #10

[quote=“jubilantManatee;206842”]I would not go that far- and since youre so negative, why are you here?

It will still be a fun game, i just hope the changes all play out well.

As well as hopefully im providing constructive feedback on a potentially less enjoyable change.

I think if anything, put a short fenceline/obstruction in the field approaching the window, so attackers could sprint to cover and advance to the building in stages. Lots of potential for interesting gunfights.[/quote]

Making things easier are not equal to make things more enjoyable.

(SaulWolfden) #11

My only complaint is opening the MG nest to the defender’s main point of access, I think that’s a bit too overkill. It’s fine if it has shots at the objective itself, so long as it has a blind side like it currently does before any patch.

(SnakekillerX) #12

i think that’s been fixed.[/quote]

If its been fixed it isn’t in the current build. Upcoming patch maybe?
It’s definitely a bit of a hassle getting stuck on invisible walls, and doesn’t look good on the game to have issues like that.

(Madonna_) #13

i think that’s been fixed.[/quote]

Nope its still there

(Chris Mullins) #14

The fixed collision on the destroyed blocker carriage isn’t in the live game yet, but it has been fixed on the dev version.

I can confirm that the MG doesn’t have sight into the defenders spawn, that would be too OP. As @MisterBadmin said, “It locks down the fastest route FROM spawn to the plant site. If the attacker’s have MG control, you have to push through right and take them out or go through gate (if it’s open) or flank around under the tracks”. It also allows for Vassili to be useful, sneak up that route and get a cheeky pick if an attacker’s going ham.

Here’s a closer up view for you:

As you can see, there’s both a bush the tree in the way (the tree is covered in non-seethrough material due to radiation and stuff so makes it a little tricky to see in the other image).

(jubilantManatee) #15

[quote=“stayfreshshoe;206957”]The fixed collision on the destroyed blocker carriage isn’t in the live game yet, but it has been fixed on the dev version.

I can confirm that the MG doesn’t have sight into the defenders spawn, that would be too OP. As @MisterBadmin said, “It locks down the fastest route FROM spawn to the plant site. If the attacker’s have MG control, you have to push through right and take them out or go through gate (if it’s open) or flank around under the tracks”. It also allows for Vassili to be useful, sneak up that route and get a cheeky pick if an attacker’s going ham.

Here’s a closer up view for you:

As you can see, there’s both a bush the tree in the way (the tree is covered in non-seethrough material due to radiation and stuff so makes it a little tricky to see in the other image).
[/quote]

Thank you for the clarification.

In my view, the opening up for the machine gun to cover the only real defense entrance still has quite a defenders locked-down in spawn GG vibe. Particularly since the other viable entrance door can be easily shut with the generator. The changes seem like it will really tip Trainyard into becoming an heavily attackers biased map.

No telling until its live I suppose.

Im curious as to the thought(s) on the window on the right side of the map being closed. Would you please comment as to why filling in that window is thought to be a good idea?

(jubilantManatee) #16

I just played an round that really gave me insight into what seems to be happening to the Trainyard map.

The 1st objective on Terminal. If the defending team is halfway competent and starts the game by destroying the pump generator, it will essentially lock down the map to a single easily defensible chokepoint.

In my hundreds of hours of gameplay, the Terminal map frequently ends in the spawn camping of the attackers.

The way the map changes for are looking, it seems Trainyard will be made to mimic Terminal gameplay. Attackers rush the generator, close the door, and then just camp the two easily locked down chokepoints.

(Sithas) #17

The difference betrween these 2 situations is that on terminal it indeed becomes a spawncamp match, with trainyard on the other hand, it will result in the attacker easely be able to plant dyna, which result in the game going to part 2 of the map.
Sure it probably results in part 1 of the map to be quickly won by the attackers, but that is still way better then the spawncamp situation from terminal

(Chris Mullins) #18

[quote=“jubilantManatee;206976”][quote=“stayfreshshoe;206957”]The fixed collision on the destroyed blocker carriage isn’t in the live game yet, but it has been fixed on the dev version.

I can confirm that the MG doesn’t have sight into the defenders spawn, that would be too OP. As @MisterBadmin said, “It locks down the fastest route FROM spawn to the plant site. If the attacker’s have MG control, you have to push through right and take them out or go through gate (if it’s open) or flank around under the tracks”. It also allows for Vassili to be useful, sneak up that route and get a cheeky pick if an attacker’s going ham.

Here’s a closer up view for you:

As you can see, there’s both a bush the tree in the way (the tree is covered in non-seethrough material due to radiation and stuff so makes it a little tricky to see in the other image).
[/quote]

Thank you for the clarification.

In my view, the opening up for the machine gun to cover the only real defense entrance still has quite a defenders locked-down in spawn GG vibe. Particularly since the other viable entrance door can be easily shut with the generator. The changes seem like it will really tip Trainyard into becoming an heavily attackers biased map.

No telling until its live I suppose.

Im curious as to the thought(s) on the window on the right side of the map being closed. Would you please comment as to why filling in that window is thought to be a good idea?

[/quote]

Sure, but again as @MisterBadmin said (he must’ve been paying close attention to our live stream about this hah), “The window is stupidly useful as Arty, Kira or a sniper. From that position, you have line of sight to the 3 ways out of spawn (attacker’s right towards ammo, center through the riverbed and left towards MG) and to the MG if anyone tries to control it. Closing the window makes it almost impossible to get line of sight to the right position, along with making it more difficult to cover the path to MG. That makes it so much harder to force the attackers back into to their spawn.”

Unfortunately we don’t have the VoD for this stream available to watch :frowning:

(MisterBadmin) #19

@stayfreshshoe
I’m always watching.

ALWAYS. WATCHING

:coaly:

dives out window

(jubilantManatee) #20

You cannot dive out the window, because it was filled in- youve been shotgun corner camped.