Thunder's LMG Discussion

(watsyurdeal) #61

[quote=“ThunderPro;118027”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;118017”]The only change I think the K 121 and MK46 need, is faster bloom settle, or how fast you recover from spread.

This should make the guns better at tapfiring, while less powerful for spraying, meaning you’re encouraged to aim down sights for that huge dps boost, and with hipfire you gotta take your time with your bursts.[/quote]

I like your idea, but I don’t see any problems with these two machine gun’s bloom recovering speed.

I mean, Rhino is able to do those plays with Minigun, because it bursts out highest DPS in the game, and melt single merc within very short time. You delete one, recover aim, and then fire again.

But machine gun is meant for fully-automatic shooting. That’s the problem. K-121 can finish off someone quickly(Of course not fast as minigun) with couple headshot damage burst, but for MK.46, that is hard unless enemy is stupidly staying still, or just moving in predictable direction.

K-121 Fragger never made me urgent(I actually did those aim recovers a lot with K-121.), but Thunder with MK.46? … damn pressing me.

Synergy with concussionade, its like a time-attack that you have to finish off people in that short amount of limited time(Even not sure non-concussed enemies are going to counter attack you, and Yes, this happens A LOT.), with fast bullet spreading speed 132DPS. This really force you to spray MK.46.

I would rather just use K-121, or reload Kek-10 once to shoot 90 rounds.

MK.46 just can’t do that like minigun, or at least K-121.

Same reason that Hochfir has, compared to Crotzni. No time for aim recover because you have to aim moving targets longer, since you have low damage per round.

Damn, Hochfir doesn’t even have those spreads.[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting one major crucial thing here, the SMGs, when you use them, are meant for spraying from the hip. With K 121, YEA GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. Up close you can spray a bit but you still have a lot of bullets just spitting out of the barrel, you need to tapfire in bursts to land consistent headshots, when you aim down sights the gun is fantastic. That is the feel I get from the MK 46, but the bloom is maybe a bit too harsh, or maybe it’s the fact that it takes so long to settle.

But I completely disagree with your analysis here, because you’re trying to compare weapons for light-medium mercs to two mercs with the highest hp in the game, on top of the some of the best tools. Even if it doesn’t kill someone the Conc nades are nothing to shrug off, they are HIGHLY effective when used properly.

You shouldn’t be able to accurately spray with the MK 46 to the same extent as you can with the SMGs, if you feel the SMGs are too effective with spraying and aiming down sights (sniping with the Hochfir for example), then maybe the issue is range and damage falloff.

But if you look at strict DPS numbers, the MK46 and K 121 are right in line with each other, with a 2 dps difference. If the gun gets any tweaks in the coming weeks, it’'ll be to it’s accuracy, not it’s damage. That is more than enough.

Also: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091&vpid=A1

(LifeupOmega) #62

Regarding the DPS: is this still a viable source of info?

Because looking at that the MK46 has a far higher theoretical dps than what I’m seeing here.

(watsyurdeal) #63

You’re right, it looks like the Spreadsheet I linked is actually wrong since if you look at the BR 16 it doesn’t have the same RoF or damage.

This should be correct: http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/MK46

And this is true, the damage of the MK 46 is currently 11, 22 on headshot.

I’d do the rest of the math but I don’t exactly have the time. :\

(Szakalot) #64

im yet to acquire mk46 with focus but after intense thunderdom i really like the gun, its incredibly strong wih ADS. you have to be confident about your aim, thunder can take any merc on 1on1 if you have a bit of cover.

a small buff to reduce horizontal recoil would help though, as the gun is swimming a lot, which really hurts at logg range

(Amerika) #65

[quote=“Szakalot;118155”]im yet to acquire mk46 with focus but after intense thunderdom i really like the gun, its incredibly strong wih ADS. you have to be confident about your aim, thunder can take any merc on 1on1 if you have a bit of cover.

a small buff to reduce horizontal recoil would help though, as the gun is swimming a lot, which really hurts at logg range[/quote]

Yup. That’s exactly why I don’t like the gun. Technically it’s one of my “best” guns according to the stats page but I dislike how disadvantageous it is in distance situations forcing me to not engage when other guns allow me to with him. The low damage per shot and the wandering is rough against players who actually know how to get the hell out of dodge and are just out of optimal (close) range.

(Tanker_Ray) #66

@Watsyurdeal

Sorry for the late response. Had to play Thunder after the hotfix. Thanks for your reply.

The reason why I used Rhino as an example, was just because Minigun is the most representative case for using aim bloom recover effectively. Rhino isn’t that good against facing multiple enemies simultaneously, but perfect at mowing down by 1vs1 each of them, shoots sudden 300DPS before aim gets too big, and then recover for next 1vs1 or 1vs2. I mean consequently, K-121 and MK.46 both have nice recovering speed! It’s not the part that needs buff.

and about mentioning the Kek, is because it’s the only weapon that has same 11 damage with MK.46. I mean, even Kek’s range got nerfed and shortened, I still finds Kek is better or similar to MK.46 with long range(Not long range as much as burst rifles or M4 covers of course.). I mean, even you have 26m for range, 11 damage is just meh unless you shoot heads with that aim bloom. Ironsight is very good indeed, but so as Kek too. Yes, and that’s the same reason why Hochfir sucks at long range even its got one of the lowest recoil in the game like you said.

I Also explained Thunder was considered weak, even he had 12 damage with much lower bloom before, not to you but the other guy name Titanium something above…(This guy is just mad about himself that he has no more logic to refute.). Closed Beta Thunder had 145DPS with much lower bloom than nowadays, and still Fragger was considered as best pick.

I know K-121 and MK.46 is in same line because they both have similar range and bloom, lots of rounds in one mag, but I gotta say the same thing overall again.

135, 132 DPS, 2DPS is subtle. this is true. but 11 damage and 17 damage, 6 damage difference is so huge. There is much more advantage when you have high damage with single bullet, rather than higher DPS. Yes, MK.46 can spray more while K-121 is shooting few, but really, aim for strong few shots are much easier, and comfortable when everyone is doing that shoot-and-hide if there is medics behind. Low damage high RPM means you have to aim longer time than high damage guns, which makes you hard to finish off urgent situation quickly.(and we all know Fragger’s nade is such an almighty solution for all that stuffy HP calculating conditions, because of instant huge damage, furthermore unavoidable by cooking it.) MK.46, lower damage with lower DPS… really, something is very wrong with it.

I don’t even like the situation that MK.46 has to be compared to Kek and K-121. Thunder depends on his primary weapon more than any other mercs, and after the conc sensitivity, MORE than ever. MK.46 might be normal for other mercs, but not Thunder… he deserves much better weapon than this.

Lifeup Omega did mentioned the chart was wrong, so I will pass it by.

for sure stats for MK.46 : 11 damage, 725RPM, 132DPS(you get 133 when you round off the digit) 85 rounds, 4.1sec reload, 17.5% movement speed reduce.

(Tanker_Ray) #67

[quote=“Szakalot;118155”]im yet to acquire mk46 with focus but after intense thunderdom i really like the gun, its incredibly strong wih ADS. you have to be confident about your aim, thunder can take any merc on 1on1 if you have a bit of cover.

a small buff to reduce horizontal recoil would help though, as the gun is swimming a lot, which really hurts at logg range[/quote]

Unshakeable is soooo good to backup Thunder’s squishy body, with Focus helping you more than ever while ironsighting MK.46 for a long time!

For me it was so hard to make decision between those two loadouts, other one with Drilled and Spares, but I just finally choosed the one with SpareDrilled combo…

Reload was way too slow, and so many bullets were needed to kill and finishing them off.

If the MK.46 is buffed, I’ll try that Unshakeable Focus loadout again.

(Amerika) #68

Right now I feel the MK46 is a pub stomper weapon that is good against inexperienced players and not nearly as good against people who will know not to directly charge you at short range and know how to get the hell out of bad situations fast. Similar in concept to how Rhino is great in the same way against inexperienced players.

I wouldn’t mind seeing it’s range increased, spread dropped on hipfire, wander/recoil dropped on ADS and possibly damage increased but reduce RoF to compensate for the DPS increase. It simply feels too much like a slightly upgraded range but less DPS Minigun combined with a Kek10 to me. And not an all uses/range weapon like the m4/k121 or even the timick/burst rifles. Of course maybe that’s the niche SD was wanting to go with it.

(sonsofaugust5) #69

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;118017”]The only change I think the K 121 and MK46 need, is faster bloom settle, or how fast you recover from spread.

This should make the guns better at tapfiring, while less powerful for spraying, meaning you’re encouraged to aim down sights for that huge dps boost, and with hipfire you gotta take your time with your bursts.[/quote]

The k121 is amazing right now. I struggle with Thunder’s LMG though. I don’t think the K-121 should get buffed. IT would be better than it already is.

(watsyurdeal) #70

[quote=“BigR3D;118726”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;118017”]The only change I think the K 121 and MK46 need, is faster bloom settle, or how fast you recover from spread.

This should make the guns better at tapfiring, while less powerful for spraying, meaning you’re encouraged to aim down sights for that huge dps boost, and with hipfire you gotta take your time with your bursts.[/quote]

The k121 is amazing right now. I struggle with Thunder’s LMG though. I don’t think the K-121 should get buffed. IT would be better than it already is.[/quote]

I’d have to disagree to an extent, tap firing is not nearly as reliable as it should be. It’s certainly not bad, but it could arguably be more consistent.

(Tanker_Ray) #71

[quote=“Amerika;118637”]Right now I feel the MK46 is a pub stomper weapon that is good against inexperienced players and not nearly as good against people who will know not to directly charge you at short range and know how to get the hell out of bad situations fast. Similar in concept to how Rhino is great in the same way against inexperienced players.

I wouldn’t mind seeing it’s range increased, spread dropped on hipfire, wander/recoil dropped on ADS and possibly damage increased but reduce RoF to compensate for the DPS increase. It simply feels too much like a slightly upgraded range but less DPS Minigun combined with a Kek10 to me. And not an all uses/range weapon like the m4/k121 or even the timick/burst rifles. Of course maybe that’s the niche SD was wanting to go with it.[/quote]

This is so true.

Well, 26m range is fairly enough since M4 has same 26m, and Kek has much shorter 18m. Damage increase is first, as M4 has 14 damage, and capable with all distance with 26m range.

But I think RPM shouldn’t be decreased. Thunder depends on his primary weapon than any other Assaults, and 132DPS is not even near Minigun’s half, which is 150. It really deserves 140+ at least.

If Rhino is well played along with his good medic folks, Rhino can overwhelm better skilled player by his best HP stat and 300 highest DPS in the game, but Thunder isn’t even available to do this. Just one sneaky bxstard who seeks chance by only waiting his 17 sec cooldown, and December 1st nerf removed this only way to play well with Thunder. Rhino doesn’t even have any uncomfortable factors about his own stats and weapon firepower…

(Amerika) #72

The technical range might be the same as an m4 but the real world practical range isn’t even close. The m4 has a predictable wander and recoil that the MK46 doesn’t have. Combine that with the higher damage per bullet and you get a gun that can hit/finish much easier from ranges the MK46 struggles with IMO.

For me it just doesn’t feel like a great all around weapon like the M4 or the burst rifles that work at nearly any range. Which is why I’m comparing it to using it like how you’d use a minigun if it had a bit more range even though it fires a lot like a Kek (well, feels like that to me). So it’s not a direct comparison but more of a play style thing in how you have to use the gun and play to be effective. It might work great for some people but so far it’s not been that great for me.

(Szakalot) #73

MK46 definitely requires a specific playstyle. the high ammo capacity promotes support/suppressive fire. You want to stand behind your teammates and pellet anyone who pops into view. Its not as powerful as an M4 in short bursts, but you can keep very accurate ADS fire for extremely long

(sonsofaugust5) #74

Could someone explain the range statistic? After 26m does the m4a1 not register shots on enemies or does the damage drop? And whats the difference between range and accuracy?