Thunder's flash, Annoying or OP?

(hoyes) #21

[quote=“Phukka;213657”]Thunder, most OP merc ingame, period.

170hp & Stark rifle, O-@$!#-P.

Then the ability - It can & does immobilise 3-4 or more mercs very easy. Simple ability that has no skill & a ridiculously large AoE. The effect lasts way, way to long. The cooldown, well, there is no cooldown is there?

Honestly, Thunder needs to be re-made. Lower HP, slightly faster movement speed (smaller hitbox). Increase the cooldown for the ability. Lower the AoE, by half. It’ll still be a strong merc, still have access to a Burst Rifle, still more HP than Fragger and will move faster too. It’s ability will be less ‘spam-able & annoying’ and hopefully Thunder will be more skilled and the ability used at specific occasions.

[/quote]

The fact that people mention he is OP because of his health and the stark is not a reason to blame the merc. Blame the gun. The stark IS the most powerful weapon in the game if you know how to use it, and even if you don’t you will probably still be able to outgun most people who aren’t using a burst rifle (most cuz shotguns and snipers).

IMO the burst rifles need less damage. 16 for BR, 17 for Stark. They would still have higher burst damage than other guns due to their high ROFs, and would depend more on headshots in order for people to do well. This would not be much of a nerf to the stark, but a massive nerf to the BR, making it unable to oneburst phoenix and have a higher ttk on higher hp mercs.

Also, I do not think that SD should even take the slightest of their valuable(yes) time to remake him when there are other mercs which imo need it more

ahem… Phantom.

(watsyurdeal) #22

Honestly, his health is the only thing that needs to be toned down.

Realistically, he does not need to be that Tanky, and I much rather have extra speed than extra health so I can actually make good use of my concussions when I tag a group of people.

(Dawnlazy) #23

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;213711”]Honestly, his health is the only thing that needs to be toned down.

Realistically, he does not need to be that Tanky, and I much rather have extra speed than extra health so I can actually make good use of my concussions when I tag a group of people.[/quote]

With the current state of conc nades he’d still be an instaban in every single DBN PUG even if his HP was reverted back. I kinda liked how it was during the week when they made the flash effect less bright, but accidentally screwed it over causing it the whiteness to not be 100% opaque but still a hindrance. Seriously the goddamn flash effect combined with nearly instant detonation time, extreme inconsistency in flashing (the amount of times my screen whites out without the flash even appearing in line of sight has been surreal) and a ridiculous 15sec cooldown just makes him the most broken crap in the game at the moment.

(BlackboltLW) #24

Some ideas that I agree are added cooldown (maybe 20 seconds) and detonation time (2.5 seconds since it’s not cook-able), and maybe revert the EMP effect to him, but only jams deployables for 5 seconds.

I’m personally fine with the blinding effect and concussion. I mean isn’t that the Intended Use™ of the grenade?

And yes, looking away from the explosion should reduce the effect duration.

(Icecoal) #25

They buffed him so hard that people would pick him more over fragger. And now he is banned in every competitive game. His concuss nade is broken , low skill high reward , detonates almost immediately and turning back doesnt help much so there is no counter. Incredible frustrating to deal with.

(LifeupOmega) #26

Incredibly low skill needed compared to Fragger. No cooking needed means there is little your opponent can do to react and get away, and even then you have a chance to still flash them due to the absurd range of the nade.

Couple that with your 170hp, Stark, and a 15 second cooldown and you can’t really question why he’s always banned from matches. He’s frustrating to fight, you have to pray he doesn’t have his nade ready, and you can’t even one shot him with a sniper.

(DirtyDav) #27

Thunder Update 2017:

"In response to all the complaints about Thunder, we decided to make him a bit more balanced!

Changes:

Nerfs:
-Decreased HP to 169.9
-Decreased sprint speed to 370 (from 375)

Buffs:
-Now has a Concussion Grenade Launcher (5 rounds, 5 second cooldown, 100 meter range, 50 splash damage, 150 damage direct hits)
-Gave Concussion Grenades EMP effect again and removed it from Phantom (we gave him a minigun now to compensate)
-Concussion effect time has been doubled
-Changed some loadout cards to have katana
-Increased MK46 to 2000 RPM (from 725)

Other:
-Made him Transgender to appeal to a wider audience
-Gave him a rainbow skin that you can purchase cases for in the store

Have fun and keep playing Dirty!"

…I mean, it’s SD we’re talking about, you know?

(GatoCommodore) #28

[quote=“r2dav2;213901”]Thunder Update 2017:

"In response to all the complaints about Thunder, we decided to make him a bit more balanced!

Changes:

Nerfs:
-Decreased HP to 169.9
-Decreased sprint speed to 370 (from 375)

Buffs:
-Now has a Concussion Grenade Launcher (5 rounds, 5 second cooldown, 100 meter range, 50 splash damage, 150 damage direct hits)
-Gave Concussion Grenades EMP effect again and removed it from Phantom (we gave him a minigun now to compensate)
-Concussion effect time has been doubled
-Changed some loadout cards to have katana
-Increased MK46 to 2000 RPM (from 725)

Other:
-Made him Transgender to appeal to a wider audience
-Gave him a rainbow skin that you can purchase cases for in the store

Have fun and keep playing Dirty!"

…I mean, it’s SD we’re talking about, you know?[/quote]

(hoyes) #29

Changes to Thunder to make everyone happy:

Conc:

-Increase CD of conc to 18 secs (from 15)
-Increase fuse time of conc to 1.2 secs(from 1.0) *this is what it was before the buff

Weapons:

Mk 46:

  • Increase dmg to 12 or/ reduce starting spread by 15%
  • Decrease spread increase by 10%

Stark:
-Decrease dmg to 17

Ok everyone?

Is that what you wanted?

(GatoCommodore) #30

[quote=“Jokder;214432”]Changes to Thunder to make everyone happy:

Conc:

-Increase CD of conc to 18 secs (from 15)
-Increase fuse time of conc to 1.2 secs(from 1.0) *this is what it was before the buff

Weapons:

Mk 46:

  • Increase dmg to 12 or/ reduce starting spread by 15%
  • Decrease spread increase by 10%

Stark:
-Decrease dmg to 17

Ok everyone?

Is that what you wanted?

[/quote]

fuse time? we want cooking!

(Herr_Hanz) #31

what you suggested is fine, but the MK46 also needs a mag size buff

(SaulWolfden) #32

12 damage puts it on par k121 dps so that’s not really needed.

(Eox) #33

MK46 does not need a DPS buff.

(hoyes) #34

[quote=“sweetColumn;214452”]

fuse time? we want cooking![/quote]

I personally do not want cooking on the conc, as then there would be no point to choosing thunder. You may say of course there is a point, since his conc can affect more enemies than a frag, but because it does no damage, if it is cooked you might as well cook a frag and kill or damage the enemies.

The conc just having a short fuse timer limits Thunder to close/close-medium ranges, where as fragger is more versatile in the fact that he can throw a frag quite far but has the weakness of having difficulties using the frag at very close range. Here are some pros and cons i want people to know WELL:

Thunder:

Pros

-Can use conc effectively within close vicinity(with ease)
This is due to both the short fuse and the large radius
-Has very short cooldown compared to power given out
-Can affect more enemies than the frag
-Very tanky making him exceptional at 1v1s
-Has access to the stark

Cons

-Due to short fuse has very limited ranges of effectiveness
This coupled with the fact that Thunder is the second slowest merc in the game means that he can rarely act on the conc himself past very close range
-Very large hitbox
-Fragger nade gets much better results in the overall due to capability to actually do damage
-Weak lmg
-If enemies dodge the flash and just get slowed then Thunder will have difficulties killing if there is more than one person concussed as they can still shoot him back, as well as deployables that are within the area

These pros and cons basically outline Thunder as a defensive merc, as the limitations specified are mitigated when the enemies have to come to him. If thunder really has the ability to cook his nades then yes there would be a counter, but i feel to strong off one that would just make people question his use over fragger as in the time it would have taken to kill your enemy with the conc you probably could have killed them with a frag in half the time.

Fragger for offense.
Thunder for defense.

Fragger needs cooking.
THUNDER DOES NOT.

(DirtyDav) #35

[quote=“Jokder;214537”][quote=“sweetColumn;214452”]

fuse time? we want cooking![/quote]

I personally do not want cooking on the conc, as then there would be no point to choosing thunder. You may say of course there is a point, since his conc can affect more enemies than a frag, but because it does no damage, if it is cooked you might as well cook a frag and kill or damage the enemies.
[/quote]

But you can’t one-hit a rhino with a frag, and has to be a direct hit to take out a full hp thunder. :stuck_out_tongue:

Also conc’s don’t have to be direct hits to concuss, so that makes easy heads on everyone in the area, versus just dealing splash damage.

Personally, I’m in favor of them being cookable. I don’t really have a problem with them at any range tbh, which might be because I used to main Fragger…I think that’s just something that takes practice, really.

(supernaturalEnigma) #36

the MK46 needs a accuracy buff mostly. a damage buff would be nice but most players who play thunder are quite good so mostly the accuracy buff would be needed. i dont think giving
thunder his emp back is a good idea as its a completely separate ability that should not be fused with a concusion

(watsyurdeal) #37
  1. Cookable concussions
  2. Bigger concussion radius
  3. Remove the flash
  4. Buff the mk46 damage to 12
(GatoCommodore) #38

then Fragger doesnt have any rival anymore.

the only reason thunder is good is that he can blind people for several second, allowing the team to mop up.

(DirtyDav) #39

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-216124”]

then Fragger doesnt have any rival anymore.

the only reason thunder is good is that he can blind people for several second, allowing the team to mop up.[/quote]

No, Thunder’s biggest thing is that he concusses; there’s a big difference between concuss and blinding. Concuss is what slows you down/makes your screen “wobble”. Blinding is what makes your screen go white.

(Herr_Hanz) #40

[quote=“r2dav2;c-216144”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-216124”]

then Fragger doesnt have any rival anymore.

the only reason thunder is good is that he can blind people for several second, allowing the team to mop up.[/quote]

No, Thunder’s biggest thing is that he concusses; there’s a big difference between concuss and blinding. Concuss is what slows you down/makes your screen “wobble”. Blinding is what makes your screen go white.[/quote]

to add: the flash is used to disable teammates that are not caught in the concussion range, therefore the two need to be together. a nerf of the flash is fine, but no removal.

also, splitting thunder nades into a conc and a flash nade isnt going to happen. SD thought about it but decided not to since they wouldnt be very distinguistable meaning it would be hard to see for players if the thunder was throwing a conc or a flash.