Thoughts and feelings on the explosives, sniper, and insta-gib changes. Your thoughts?

(KayDubz) #1
  1. Fragger was nerfed a bit since now along with have 1 less nade after a previous update, he now cant gib fully healthy people with his 1 nade (granted the shorter cooldown). Yes the nades max damage and outer damage was beefed up, but they reduced the max damage inner radius on the nades too. From the measurements given in the update, and from playing a bit it feels like Fragger’s nade effectiveness is definitely lower.

The nade change was good for Nader’s martyrdom, since martyrdom rewarded suicides and poor play too easily. But I’m not sure how I feel about Fragger having 2 big changes to his gameplay so close together in the last couple updates or so.

I was originally super against removing explosive insta-gibs, because they are a core piece of Proxy’s game-style. She’s so squishy that it helps a lot to have mines cover her tracks, without worrying about medics easily negating her kill (because she cant always go back and finish someone who tripped her mine). Right now Im giving a thumbs down to the explosives changes for Fragger and Proxy, but ill give it more time.

  1. I was originally indifferent to the bolt-action sniper rifle changes. I could see the pros and cons of both views on it. While its good to scale back how easy it was to wreck a team with single shot kills at a distance, Im now wondering how easily medics can negate Vasilli’s effectiveness. However, the devs did up the ammo per clip, and reduced the gib to 1 shot on a downed opponent…so a spectacular sniper should get 3 kills and instagibs in 1 clip…and at least 2 of each if they are merely good snipers.

  2. So now it seems that insta-gibs are solely the realm of air support. Why have insta-gibs at all then? Granted air support has longer cooldowns…but it doesnt seem that fair that people can load up on Skyhammers on some maps and spam spawns with air support. Yes yes, I realize that with air support, the increased barrage of air damage is what gibs you, but still.

Ive seen it enough where a couple Kiras or a few Skys can completely wreck teams even if you warn your teammates and try to take cover. But maybe Im just used to playing on teams with people who havent learned the skillful art of air support evasion :o

Thoughts?

(yusayu) #2

Fragger deserves any nerf he gets, the one to Vassili was a bit unreasonable even tho it is not really fun for the receiving party to get instagibbed by a gun.
Air support on the other hand needs all the buffs it can get (maybe not skyhammer), so imo that was a pretty good change overall.

(KayDubz) #3

Why do you think Fragger needs much nerfs? I feel like he was nerfed enough by limited his amount of nades (albeit with reduced cooldown). I feel like giving him one nade at a time made it more skillful for him to take out a few opponents instead of always having an extra nade in his pocket.

(Amerika) #4

I don’t recall anybody anywhere asking for the nerfs to explosives. Maybe I missed something? Just not a fan of those changes at all as I thought explosives were finally at a good place overall.

I’ve long had the opinion that the instagib on Vassili needed to go and I think the changes they made by adding a bit more ammo per mag and a 1 shot gib evens things out a bit in that area. You just won’t be able to, in a match, jump off of a wall and rattle off 1-2 headshots with a low personal chance of you being shot. And then beginning your team’s push and almost guaranteeing it’s success. Those people will now be revived more often due to the change. So pub play stays mostly the same but fixes the issues the gun had in high end comp play.

(Rosskii) #5

I know what you mean about skyhammer’s airstrike. I think if you are in the middle and get hit by 3 of the explosions then you should be instagib, but sometimes if you are on the edge and hit by the first or last explosion then maybe they could remove instagib in that situation?

(beautifulMarriage) #6

Thoughts? I can aim with Vasiline, but I only get a +1 damage bonus when ripping a f-ing weak enemies head off. And then still have to shoot them again.
Seems balanced.

Edit: Solution: Can only instagib enemies with 100hp and lower. It makes sense in Sniper fights, and helps keep off fast moving explosive spam, and infinite-revives if you have the ability to aim.

(XavienX) #7

[quote=“Amerika;100694”]I don’t recall anybody anywhere asking for the nerfs to explosives. Maybe I missed something? Just not a fan of those changes at all as I thought explosives were finally at a good place overall.

I’ve long had the opinion that the instagib on Vassili needed to go and I think the changes they made by adding a bit more ammo per mag and a 1 shot gib evens things out a bit in that area. You just won’t be able to, in a match, jump off of a wall and rattle off 1-2 headshots with less chance of you being shot and then beginning your team’s push and almost guaranteeing it’s successful. Those people will now be revived more often. So pub play stays mostly the same but fixes the issues the gun had in high end comp play.[/quote]

Now…about Spark’s instagib…a very controversial topic.

(Sucrose) #8

kind of feel like kira and arty are completely ruined with the burst rifles being shit now. why would anyone want to use a burst rifle when you can use the m4.

(beautifulMarriage) #9

[quote=“Xavien;100826”][quote=“Amerika;100694”]I don’t recall anybody anywhere asking for the nerfs to explosives. Maybe I missed something? Just not a fan of those changes at all as I thought explosives were finally at a good place overall.

I’ve long had the opinion that the instagib on Vassili needed to go and I think the changes they made by adding a bit more ammo per mag and a 1 shot gib evens things out a bit in that area. You just won’t be able to, in a match, jump off of a wall and rattle off 1-2 headshots with less chance of you being shot and then beginning your team’s push and almost guaranteeing it’s successful. Those people will now be revived more often. So pub play stays mostly the same but fixes the issues the gun had in high end comp play.[/quote]

Now…about Spark’s instagib…a very controversial topic.[/quote]

Controversial? With this change, there’s literally no point in NOT playing Sparks vs Vasili, until they nerf her.
She has a great weapon, can heal herself, revive teammates, can down enemies in one hit, has faster movement speed, and only 20 less health? Considering she can heal all 20 of that with one medpack, and can’t be instagibbed anymore anyways, what’s the point in playing Vasiline?

(Mister__Wiggles) #10

Vasili insta-gib was needed and something im happy about. The removal of explosive insta-gibs however is something I cant wrap my head around. Explosive were finally sorted and fixed, Nader insta-gib should be there even though I hate it myself. Anyone stupid enough to run up and stab a nader deserves to respawn. Fragger is the class for killing and now the ability to place a perfect nade and insta-gib someone is gone he will fall behind. Stoker right now is the strongest class when it comes to gibbing people, the fire is incredibly strong and the radius is alot bigger than I thought it would be, not to mention you get an ammo station and arguably the best/most reliable gun in the game (M4). This patch has thrown the balance up in the air again and all of the changes need another look at imo, not that all the changes should be rolled back but designed around the feedback from the community.

(fancypants) #11

remove all insta gib from this game and I´m a happy camper.

(beautifulMarriage) #12

Yeah, being able to aim is way worse than spamming an explosive randomly around a corner for a one hit kill…
And this is the kind of person that holds weight when balancing. We’re screwed. If it wasn’t already so apparent from the passed half a year already.

(Yes) #13

[quote=“beautifulMarriage;100925”]Yeah, being able to aim is way worse than spamming an explosive randomly around a corner for a one hit kill…
And this is the kind of person that holds weight when balancing. We’re screwed. If it wasn’t already so apparent from the passed half a year already.[/quote]

One grenade every 17 secs as opposed to having 20+ shots which can be replenished whenever and only have about 1 sec pause between.

Yeah, Fragger is way more spammy.

(KayDubz) #14

[quote=“Clown;100935”][quote=“beautifulMarriage;100925”]Yeah, being able to aim is way worse than spamming an explosive randomly around a corner for a one hit kill…
And this is the kind of person that holds weight when balancing. We’re screwed. If it wasn’t already so apparent from the passed half a year already.[/quote]

One grenade every 17 secs as opposed to having 20+ shots which can be replenished whenever and only have about 1 sec pause between.

Yeah, Fragger is way more spammy.[/quote]Quoted for truth.

(Grave_Knight) #15

The removal of instagib on explosives was needed. There were plenty of people who didn’t like it much. That being said, Nader kind of got nerfed hard with this update, obviously unintentionally. Martydom, which rarely killed anyone before, is next to useless now. Think they should buff it a la Proxy’s mines.

(Mister__Wiggles) #16

@“Grave Knight”
I agree with what you said about nader but a frag should always insta-gib if it’s a direct hit. That was the only thing with fragger that required mastering, cooking the perfect nade and getting the throw spot on. Now it doesn’t reward you as much. But thats my opinion.

(N8o) #17

[quote=“beautifulMarriage;100835”][quote=“Xavien;100826”][quote=“Amerika;100694”]I don’t recall anybody anywhere asking for the nerfs to explosives. Maybe I missed something? Just not a fan of those changes at all as I thought explosives were finally at a good place overall.

I’ve long had the opinion that the instagib on Vassili needed to go and I think the changes they made by adding a bit more ammo per mag and a 1 shot gib evens things out a bit in that area. You just won’t be able to, in a match, jump off of a wall and rattle off 1-2 headshots with less chance of you being shot and then beginning your team’s push and almost guaranteeing it’s successful. Those people will now be revived more often. So pub play stays mostly the same but fixes the issues the gun had in high end comp play.[/quote]

Now…about Spark’s instagib…a very controversial topic.[/quote]

Controversial? With this change, there’s literally no point in NOT playing Sparks vs Vasili, until they nerf her.
She has a great weapon, can heal herself, revive teammates, can down enemies in one hit, has faster movement speed, and only 20 less health? Considering she can heal all 20 of that with one medpack, and can’t be instagibbed anymore anyways, what’s the point in playing Vasiline?[/quote]

Don’t know if you have seen Sparks since the update, but she is utterly useless at this point.
She is a decent sniper. Wouldn’t personally choose her over Vas because her instagib requires the opponent to be EXTREMELY low on health.

Also, the 1.0 second revive timer makes her almost completely useless in almost every situation compared to the other medics. Increasing the get-up time about 50% (42.85% if we’re being precise) is such a stupid change that it amazes me that this somehow got through testing. I play with one of the best Sparks in the game and even when they instantly revive me, I get gibbed. Doesn’t matter what range or circumstance.

(Grave_Knight) #18

[quote=“Mister__Wiggles;100959”]Grave Knight
I agree with what you said about nader but a frag should always insta-gib if it’s a direct hit. That was the only thing with fragger that required mastering, cooking the perfect nade and getting the throw spot on. Now it doesn’t reward you as much. But thats my opinion.[/quote]

A good Fragger is still going to destroy though. Even with a direct hit, unless you’re Rhino, you’re left with around 0 (Aura is dead) to 40 (hard to frag the Fragger) downed HP. Few rounds from your weapon of choice should finish off what remains…

(Mister__Wiggles) #19

@Haise
I had a really good sparks on my team a couple of days ago and he basically kept the whole team in the fight. Played with the same guy today and he managed to pull of just a handful or revives. I put it down to just one of them days but now you mention the nerfs I can see the real reason. I’ve literally played sparks about 5 times so I’m no where near familiar with her playstyle but I’ve always thought her and red eye have the highest skill curve I’m db. Most people that use them are incredibly useless due to ignorance or just lack of experience with the merc but once in a while you’ll come across someone who knows what they are doing and they have the capacity to carry any team. Sad to see the nerf to sparks but tbh this update is full of silly decision and unneeded nerfs.

(N8o) #20

[quote=“Mister__Wiggles;100967”]@Haise
I had a really good sparks on my team a couple of days ago and he basically kept the whole team in the fight. Played with the same guy today and he managed to pull of just a handful or revives. I put it down to just one of them days but now you mention the nerfs I can see the real reason. I’ve literally played sparks about 5 times so I’m no where near familiar with her playstyle but I’ve always thought her and red eye have the highest skill curve I’m db. Most people that use them are incredibly useless due to ignorance or just lack of experience with the merc but once in a while you’ll come across someone who knows what they are doing and they have the capacity to carry any team. Sad to see the nerf to sparks but tbh this update is full of silly decision and unneeded nerfs.[/quote]

She only needed at MOST a .1 or .15 increase to the revive. Not a full .3 (42.85%)
Absolutely ruined her. :frowning: So sad to see this done. Not to mention the .3 to .4 charge time that was changed. That was… kinda needed to an extent.

I hope Nexon and SD are listening to the community on these changes. They have been pretty damn good about it in the past.