Things that do not make sense about Thunder

(watsyurdeal) #1
  1. His HP

Why does he need to have 170 HP? 150 HP would allow him to tank one more bodyshot, and headshot, for most of the automatic weapons. That and he has the ability to rob people control of the vision and mobility. Which brings me to another point.

  1. His speed

For someone who’s ability depends on throwing it from afar, then rushing in and clearing the room while people are unable to fight back, why is he so slow? Does anyone else see this as counter productive?

  1. The Concussion’s ability to blind enemies, and Thunder himself.

To me, I feel like this does two things, one, gives an unnecessarily unfair impairment to one’s vision that they can not get away from, since unlike the Flash Bang in Counter Strike or even other games, it goes off before you get a chance to see it and turn away.

Two, it means Thunder literally has to a) use walls to keep himself from being blinded, and b) look away from the concussion when it goes off.

For me personally, I feel like all of this is very counter productive, and imo, I would like to see these things changed, and in return, make the following changes the Timik and Mk46

Timik

  • Increase damage to 16
  • Reduce RPM to 459
  • Reduce clip size to 30

Basically this turns the Timik into a cross between the Blishok, and the K 121. While still maintaining DPS similar to the M4, and allowing him to kill 90 and 120 hp mercs in one less shot than the M4.

MK 46

  • Increase damage to 12

This basically allows the DPS and TTK to be on par with the K 121, overall making Thunder a more effective killing machine.

(Herr_Hanz) #2

agreed about the mk46.

thunder not getting affected by his own flashes would be very nice, although it might go into the OP range. would still love to have it tho. high HP = slow merc. which is needed since he is an assault merc supposed to push into enemies. the slow speed is a meh. i would rather have 170 hp than have skyhammer speed. (maybe buff to fragger speed?)

(watsyurdeal) #3

Yes, but my point is why is more hp needed? When his ability is about crowd control, concussing enemies so he has the advantage? It does not make any sense for him to have extra hp, but really to have the speed needed to catch up to and clear out enemies while they are concussed.

(Herr_Hanz) #4

Yes, but my point is why is more hp needed? When his ability is about crowd control, concussing enemies so he has the advantage? It does not make any sense for him to have extra hp, but really to have the speed needed to catch up to and clear out enemies while they are concussed.
[/quote]

thats because unlike with fraggers nade you are still able to get shot after hitting someone with your conc grenade.

(watsyurdeal) #5

Yes, but my point is why is more hp needed? When his ability is about crowd control, concussing enemies so he has the advantage? It does not make any sense for him to have extra hp, but really to have the speed needed to catch up to and clear out enemies while they are concussed.
[/quote]

thats because unlike with fraggers nade you are still able to get shot after hitting someone with your conc grenade.[/quote]

But that’s really more luck based than anything, plus you’re not considering the fact that people have their vision impaired, and if I am not mistaken their aim is wobbly as well.

(Terminal_6) #6

I think Thunder needs the HP, maybe not so much in pubs as high-level play. That’s because the conc doesn’t guarantee affecting everyone to the point of blindness, anyone looking in slightly the right direction, or rounding the corner a moment later, will be able to see and shoot, and they’ll probably be expecting a fat “Russian” to enter the room. The lower Thunder’s health, the more punishing it would be to not 100% blind everyone in the room.
Which, in fairness, could be an intended effect but I think the general consensus is that Thunder’s underpowered.

Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, we could give concs to a 90hp@450sp shotgun merc. That sounds enjoyable.

(Dawnlazy) #7

170HP is really crazy, they should have kept it at 160 and instead just nerfed Fragger to 140 like they did. I’m inclined to agree about flat out removing the flash effect from the flashbang, or even returning to the “bugged” before the last update that made your screen pretty white but not 100% opaque. If not then at least please make the flash have a longer fuse time and make it more consistent, I swear 75%+ of the time I get flashed I don’t even see the damn thing on my screen.

(Apofenas) #8

I dislike the Thunder’s vulnerability to his own weapon. It would be nice if Thunder had some special glasses as a secondary ability. So when he wears them everything turns grey, he gets immunity to his grenades, but in return his side vision is reduced, UI doesnt work, team mates/enemies(heal stations, turrets, ect) don’t glow with blue/red colour and sounds(voices,mines, phantom cloak ect) are silent.

IMO current Thunder’s HP and speed are good. Thunder with Mk is somewhat between Fragger and Rhino concepts and I like that. But I don’t like his alternative weapons:

I think he totally deserves ability to survive head shot from Fel-Ix or Moa since he is only one who bothers to wear helmet in a war zone, but i dislike when such merc takes super accurate Stark and becomes as effective from long range and dangerous for snipers. It would be nice if he had K-121 instead while making Fragger only assault merc with access to burst rifle, but that’s unlikely to happen…

On the other hand, i don’t see Timik a lot. It is worse than Stark in long range, it is worse than Mk46 in close combat, it doesnt have better load outs either. Personally i would like Thunder to be less affected by timik’s speed multiplier, so it was 92.5-95%(92.5 is already faster than Fragger with M4) instead of 87.5% specificly for Thunder. This way he could be more mobile and run fast with his gun ready after he throws flashbang. This way Timik could be better option for attack, and Mk better for defence.

(frostyvampire) #9

His health is fine
When he had 160hp everyone was complaining that his hp is too low

About speed idk. I don’t see a problem with it

Flashbangs in DB are easy to avoid. You can see a red outline around the grenade so you can clearly see where it is and you have 1 second to react

The only things that need to be changed is turning away from the grenade should reduce concussion effect and to make up for it, bring back EMP

(GatoCommodore) #10

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;32656”]1. His HP

Why does he need to have 170 HP? 150 HP would allow him to tank one more bodyshot, and headshot, for most of the automatic weapons. That and he has the ability to rob people control of the vision and mobility. Which brings me to another point.

Yadda yadda

[/quote]
thunder needs the HP for clearing room because there will be chances that 2 other guys just came into the room and shoot you. And no Fragger dont need to be in a room to clear or help to clear it thats why he gets 140 hp.

his ability doesnt kill and will move to OP Area with fletcher if you apply non blind to thunder.

i think his speed is okay considering hes a tanker and would have win 1 on 1 battle more frequently. and no, people dont throw conc from afar since they know their prey will escape if they do that. thats why thunder is slow and has 1 sec fuse, to give people chance to look away and make thunder able to catch up to his prey

the only thing that is not right , right now is his cooldown and MK46.
the rest of your post does not make sense.

hell, your discussion always never make sense its like you intended to do that…

(hoyes) #11

Ok, where do I start?

His hp and speed do make sense, as he is intended for close range, where he is able to soak up bullets and his speed won’t be that much of a detriment. This, does actually work well with his abilty, which does not have any killing power, but Thunder due to his high hp, makes up for it.

Blinding, I feel, is needed. When it was bugged and wasn’t blinding I feel that it was a bit lackluster, that good players could easily fight back and that the slow wasn’t good enough to compensate. The only way I think they could rework the flash is by increasing the waviness of the concussion effect by doubling, so it is pretty much impossible to shoot and kill a thunder, but good enough to give you some awareness.Then self blinding would also be gone.

Both the changes to the timik and Mk46 are good, but I feel this should be done to the timik:

-Increase damage to 15
-Decrease ROF to 499
-Increase vertical recoil by 5%

I feel these changes would make it more of a high risk, high reward weapon, where it would pull a better ttk if your shots are accurate, which will be increasingly difficult due to the recoil and spread. The M4 will still be a jack of all trades, but the timik will fit a different role, being a heavier hitting weapon, that takes more skill to use.

(watsyurdeal) #12

[quote=“Jokder;206793”]
Both the changes to the timik and Mk46 are good, but I feel this should be done to the timik:

-Increase damage to 15
-Decrease ROF to 499
-Increase vertical recoil by 5%

I feel these changes would make it more of a high risk, high reward weapon, where it would pull a better ttk if your shots are accurate, which will be increasingly difficult due to the recoil and spread. The M4 will still be a jack of all trades, but the timik will fit a different role, being a heavier hitting weapon, that takes more skill to use.[/quote]

Really either version will work, the main difference is the one I proposed matches up with the M4’s DPS perfectly, the one you proposed has slower dps, but faster TTK.

[quote=“Jokder;206793”]
Blinding, I feel, is needed. When it was bugged and wasn’t blinding I feel that it was a bit lackluster, that good players could easily fight back and that the slow wasn’t good enough to compensate. The only way I think they could rework the flash is by increasing the waviness of the concussion effect by doubling, so it is pretty much impossible to shoot and kill a thunder, but good enough to give you some awareness.Then self blinding would also be gone.[/quote]

And I disagree the blinding is necessary, honestly if aim is impaired then it really comes down to players being hit by the concussion, are now forced to deal with it’s effects while Thunder takes them down. Plus without the blinding, Thunder can use his nades in open areas without having to worry about blinding himself. Which in turn, imo, pretty much negates the need to have the extra health.

160 health was more than enough, it allowed him to survive on average 1 more headshot, or 2 more bodyshots than his competition, which was plenty. He needs the extra speed to make the most use of his concussions.

Plus this is back when hit hitboxes were bigger, and now that’s been changed as well.

To me, it makes more sense to reduce his health some more, until he maintains that SLIGHT extra tankiness over Fragger, while getting the speed boost he needs.

(GatoCommodore) #13

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;206799”][quote=“Jokder;206793”]
Both the changes to the timik and Mk46 are good, but I feel this should be done to the timik:

-Increase damage to 15
-Decrease ROF to 499
-Increase vertical recoil by 5%

I feel these changes would make it more of a high risk, high reward weapon, where it would pull a better ttk if your shots are accurate, which will be increasingly difficult due to the recoil and spread. The M4 will still be a jack of all trades, but the timik will fit a different role, being a heavier hitting weapon, that takes more skill to use.[/quote]

Really either version will work, the main difference is the one I proposed matches up with the M4’s DPS perfectly, the one you proposed has slower dps, but faster TTK.

[quote=“Jokder;206793”]
Blinding, I feel, is needed. When it was bugged and wasn’t blinding I feel that it was a bit lackluster, that good players could easily fight back and that the slow wasn’t good enough to compensate. The only way I think they could rework the flash is by increasing the waviness of the concussion effect by doubling, so it is pretty much impossible to shoot and kill a thunder, but good enough to give you some awareness.Then self blinding would also be gone.[/quote]

And I disagree the blinding is necessary, honestly if aim is impaired then it really comes down to players being hit by the concussion, are now forced to deal with it’s effects while Thunder takes them down. Plus without the blinding, Thunder can use his nades in open areas without having to worry about blinding himself. Which in turn, imo, pretty much negates the need to have the extra health.

160 health was more than enough, it allowed him to survive on average 1 more headshot, or 2 more bodyshots than his competition, which was plenty. He needs the extra speed to make the most use of his concussions.

Plus this is back when hit hitboxes were bigger, and now that’s been changed as well.

To me, it makes more sense to reduce his health some more, until he maintains that SLIGHT extra tankiness over Fragger, while getting the speed boost he needs.[/quote]

“Plus without the blinding, Thunder can use his nades in open areas without having to worry about blinding himself.”

suuureee…
i mean i dont know what CQB means either!

(CyberVonCyberus) #14

you know 360 conc nades are pretty effective and easy to perform so no the bugged conc did not give him any andvantage as he was putting his vision on the same level as his concused opponement
wich is the opposite of what the conc is about wich is giving you the advantage of having vision while the ennemies don’t have vision

(Tanker_Ray) #15

I agree with everything BUT no.1 and 2. NO.

@sweetColumn and @Jokder mentioned almost everything I wanted to say, so I’ll skip most of the parts.

His concept itself is ‘Heavy Infantry’, which is slow but tanky. Just go check the Meet the merc section. Whatelse do you expect from him?

Why does everyone just wants him to be another 'good room clearing offensive Assault., or Fragger MK.2.

I just can’t understand this, my goodness.

Only thing he needs for offensive usage is no.3 you mentioned, nothing like ‘less HP but more speed.’

It was proven even 160HP wasn’t enough to soak up dmg with his giant hitbox, and you want him to be one-shot by MOA and Felix with previous Fragger’s HP with much larger hitbox???

Thunder is still weakest merc under concentrate fire or attacked by 2 guys at the same time!

Only problem he has right now is this god damn shot conc’s CD that blinds all gun’s real firepower, and MK.46 that has larger spread per bullet than TIMIK, wasting all of its DPS.

Otherwise, Timik/Stark Thunder is doing really fine, except the fact burst rifle is still OP = S41 Stark Thunder was always sitting on the top.