there needs a to be a better spawn shield.

(bumbertyr) #1

The spawn camping is getting out of control with nader officially being added into the game, I shouldn’t be respawning into 5 grenades and an airstrike flying at my face.

(Reddeadcap) #2

Spawn turrets like in Brink sounds like a good idea, and having the spawn areas themselves be what gives the shield rather than the players spawning with one and losing it quickly.

(Guilte) #3

The tactic is here to stay. The only major issue is since public is 6v6+, there’s a lot of spam. The tactic is here to stay though. People would do the same thing in ET and it stayed. I’d just get used to it.

(Dommedag) #4

To be honest, there is a simple fix to this. Make players get XP/Credit penalty for each kill they get inside the spawn area. Why would players kill people in spawn if it makes them get their stats/xp/credits reduced?

(Humbug) #5

better map design, meaningful side-objectives and selectable spawns, please.

(Terr) #6

As long as those boundary-lines are super-duper clear… The announcer should probably say something about: “Oh my, that’s hardly sporting, is it?” and any negative penalties should be in, say, 3x normal font size.

It needs to be super-obvious because many players (at least, new, solo, random-server-joining ones) won’t usually find themselves in that situation, so when it comes up it needs to teach them very quickly.

(Viquel) #7

I have to admit, spawn-killing with airstrikes is fun and highly demoralizing - it just shouldn’t work. You look at the timer, and you can gauge when a wave of 5-8 people are going to spawn right into the crazy airstrike.

It wouldn’t help much against setting the trap just barely outside of the boundaries - every spawn should have at least a second path out of a protected area.

Let’s look at the final stage of Chapel, attackers at least have a second way a few people take (left to the EV and down the ramp to the right of it) and spawn-killing a whole batch is a lot more unlikely than a properly placed Skyhammer-LOL on defender’s spawn. If the whole defender’s ramp was protected, they would just charge right into the airstrike at the end of teh ramp in front of the bus - usually only snipers take the turn to the left.

This place is also the only one I saw a single proxy-mine take out 5 people at once - all eager to battle, all blown to pieces. The final defender spawn is just bad in my opinion :smile:

(mOist) #8

@Dommedag i like this idea .

(Runeforce) #9

It might be a little too simple! With this fix, you assume spawnkilling is an issue about undesirable player behavior. I disagree. It is not an issue about behavior. Spawnkilling might be undesirable, but it’s a map designer responsibility, not a player responsibility. If you manage to spawnkill your opposing team, that means your team is working together, and the team that gets camped is running around like headless chickens. So the team spawnkilling really should get a bonus for good work, while the team getting camped should get a penalty for poor work. (But of course you don’t want to further penalize the poor bastards, you might actually want to give them a bonus instead to alleviate their sufferings.) If anything, the maps could use more design. Chapel attackers first spawn f. ex. is just incredible unfair, because of the map design. Getting spawnraped on that point of the map is just not fun, because you can’t really do anything about it. You have all the disadvantages and no alternatives.

(Humbug) #10

Assuming it’s ‘broken.’ If anything, the maps could use more design. If you manage to spawnkill you opposing team, that means your team works together, and the team that gets camped is running around like headless chickens. So the team spawnkilling really should get a bonus for good work, while the team getting camped should get a penalty for poor work. (But of course you don’t want to further penalize the poor bastards, you might actually want to give them a bonus instead to alleviate their sufferings.)
[/quote]

i agree, punishing players for poor map-design is not the way to go.
spawnkilling is the best defense at the moment

(Dommedag) #11

Have you guys been playing public lately with the top player stacking etc…? Yesterday I was in a game that had a lvl 15-16-18-20-13-14 vs a team of players who barely hit level 6. Are you seriously telling me that those low levels/new players should be punished because they dont work together as well as the 6 other high levels who proably have been playing this game for 200 hours more then them and knows about all tricks and timings?

The real problem nowdays are highly leveled and experienced players dominating the servers, stacking teams and leaves new players with no chance at all to get anything done.

If ALL of the games were equal in skills and experience, I would proably agree with you guys on poor design, but that’s not the case today imo.

(Humbug) #12

[quote=“Dommedag;16444”]Have you guys been playing public lately with the top player stacking etc…? Yesterday I was in a game that had a lvl 15-16-18-20-13-14 vs a team of players who barely hit level 6. Are you seriously telling me that those low levels/new players should be punished because they dont work together as well as the 6 other high levels who proably have been playing this game for 200 hours more then them and knows about all tricks and timings?

The real problem nowdays are highly leveled and experienced players dominating the servers, stacking teams and leaves new players with no chance at all to get anything done.

If ALL of the games were equal in skills and experience, I would proably agree with you guys on poor design, but that’s not the case today imo.[/quote]

level means nothing, this game is in beta for a really long time already.
rankings and matchmaking is not in game yet but will come soon (it’s needed before open beta).
if you played enemy territory you would know why map design is poor in db

(Dommedag) #13

Levels tells you about the persons activity. So if you are level 18, I’m pretty sure you can assume that person have not played just 10-15games. Hence it labels the player as rather experienced or eventually pretty damn good. And you’re correct with the levels does not show skill level. I’m level 15 and still gets beaten by level 9s etc… But then again, as I understood ET players, FPS/Quake/UT players usually have an edge in this since it’s very simmilar playstyle and I dont exactly have much experience from those games.

Like I mentioned, I’ve never touched, watched or played ET, so I can’t tell how the maps were designed there. However, I do feel that the maps so far are rather good. Maybe a few tweaks to certain areas on certain maps, but overall, I feel it’s pretty good.

(Szakalot) #14

the main problem is that objectives are often placed close to one of the spawns.

Obviously spawn camping is gonna happen, just cause that is the most obvious choke to camp - and camping chokes is good strategy.

Whitechapel last stage can realistically ONLY be done when attacker’s kill a bunch of players who only just came down from the ramp.

(bumbertyr) #15

[quote=“Szakalot;16514”]the main problem is that objectives are often placed close to one of the spawns.

Obviously spawn camping is gonna happen, just cause that is the most obvious choke to camp - and camping chokes is good strategy.

Whitechapel last stage can realistically ONLY be done when attacker’s kill a bunch of players who only just came down from the ramp.[/quote]

yah, they should really push back the spawn in the last stage of chapel and add a couple new routes.

(Gi.Am) #16

Spawnprotection is imo not really nescessary in Dirtybomb.

Here is why,

Prolonged spawnkilling only happens against the attacking side.
Because if the attackers are strong enough to spawnkill, they will complete the objective instead, effectively reseting the spawns/finishing the match.

Defenders respawn slower than the attackers. That means attackers have the advantage.

When they do get pushed into their spawn it’s usually because of one or the combination of the following problems:

  1. uneven teams (numbers)

  2. uneven teams (skill)

  3. passive attacker team

  4. could be easily fixed by a agressive autobalance routine that ensures the attackers are never more than 1 man short (maybe even ensure that it’s even or defenders are one man short).

  5. Is pretty impossible to fix for casual play with the constant influx of players on a server but it is not so bad if point 3 is considered.

  6. Defenders spawn slower have a longer way to the attackers spawn.
    That means if the attacker team is constantly pushing even if they die like flies (because of uneven skill lvl. ) they will atleast keep the defenders at bay/out of their spawn.
    Furthermore if the attacker team threatens the objectives in a meaningfull way the defenders will stay near them.

Spawnprotection will not help here, if the attackers are playing too passive/save or have 3-5 Vasillis (not that Vasilli is bad or anything but his job description doesn’t include pushing and with every Vasilli your team looses pushing power. One or two for countersniping is fine tho), it only means that the defenders wait 2 meters further away and block you there.

Fixing this point is obviously our own responsibility :wink: .

That said the attackers spawn on chapel indead needs a good look at.
Because right now you can both control the spawning area and the objective at the same time and that shouldn’t be possible for the defenders.

(Amerika) #17

The devs on their last stream said they were looking into doing something to keep spawns from getting camped. IMO, it would be nicer to make another spawn area on the map and let people choose along with making the whole area invulnerable until you run out of it.