The new Team Skins Feedback Thread - Version 20076

[Breo]

Is this from the latest build? It looks more like a block out.

[Mustang]

It’s been over half a year since I’ve been in the alpha and the same problems about identifying friend from foe are still just as pertinent today as they were in the beginning.

Sums it up perfectly.

It concerns me that just because we’ve gone quiet on the issue to give SD time to implement the fix that they apparently think this is now a non-issue.

[BomBaKlaK]

As opposed to the amount of work they’re having to put in to make each team easily distinguishable? It’s been over half a year since I’ve been in the alpha and the same problems about identifying friend from foe are still just as pertinent today as they were in the beginning.

yep ! I totally agreed on this point, that’s a recurrent problem … hope it’ll be fixed one day.
something needs to be done, but I still persist on the identification problem with all this loadouts, so color is the solution for me.

[maxxxxlol]

They really need to make 2 different teams. I don’t care if it means only 2 skins for each team instead of 4.

[rand0m]

[QUOTE=Mustang;448829]Sums it up perfectly.

It concerns me that just because we’ve gone quiet on the issue to give SD time to implement the fix that they apparently think this is now a non-issue.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Skins need to be fixed. SD, just look at rtcw/et…easily can identify axis and allies. Black/grey vs green/tan. Something needs to be done along those lines. It’s like we’re fighting the exact same “army” with a different color patch on their arm…

[chippy]

I’m not sure whether this have been tested or not, but it seems to me that there are a lot of places on the skins where you can inhance/increase the blue and red colors for each team.

Ammopouches, kneepads, the straps around arms/shoulders/legs, beltbuckles, gloves, patches etcetera. One or two patches before the red/blu lights were added, the colors were actually pretty good. Each skin only needed something like 3-4 spots of added color to be easily recognisable. Only downside was that they were a bit to muted, even though it fit in well within Dirty Bombs artstyle.

Personally I’d love brightskins all the way but you know…

[iwound]

This is how they should look.

which would help.

im getting continually frustrated in game not being able to i.d. players. until its too late.

was on camden with an enemy stood by me ignoring me on final stage.
only noticed when he moved away and got shot in cross fire lol

btw tracers have improved. (could be due to other changes i think)

[chippy]

[QUOTE=iwound;448850]This is how they should look.

[/QUOTE]

EDIT

Just noticed it was from the MS18 videos. If SD bump up the saturation on the clothing, leaving the skintone intact, it should be excellent! Might be on the dark side for the maps like White Chapel though. But still, THAT is something I’d like to see.

[iWi]

Personally, I prefere two teams and each of them with different design , morphology and color skin.
If not - this concept from SD seams to me right one - but I agree to add small lighing diff. colors. something like this :

Could works fine.

[RasteRayzeR]

Well, I had an idea some time ago. Some people won’t like it but it would definetly help identify your foes : I’d like to have thin health bars on top of my enemies heads. It’s done mostly in RPG or strategy games, but could easily be adapted for fps without adding too much noise in our field of view.

Otherwise this is a really hard question … the chars don’t have this clear distinction like in W:ET, so either we get different characters per team (meaning 10 distinct chars, each attributed to a team), but this would mean double the work ; either we get distinctive elements of armor per team, which should be easy to recognize.

I’ll keep this in mind and try to think about it … really an important matter :stroggtapir:

[scre4m1]

[QUOTE=iwound;448850]This is how they should look.

which would help.
[/QUOTE]
looks quite good

Well, I had an idea some time ago. Some people won’t like it but it would definetly help identify your foes : I’d like to have thin health bars on top of my enemies heads. It’s done mostly in RPG or strategy games, but could easily be adapted for fps without adding too much noise in our field of view.

health bars for enemy teams are stupid. I wish all IFFs disappeared.

[iwound]

Last patch changelog.

[ul]
[li]Disabled Health and Class info for enemy IFFs [/li]> [/ul]

its been on since i can remember. and was just removed.

Class distinction has been one of the biggest issues with the game.
as big as the spawn waves or lack of problem.
atm it seems there are a lot of lighting issues that are affecting how they look
in different areas of the maps.

For me they have always lacked a specular component or any depth to textures and just appear flat, bland and washed out.

Whats confusing is how great the map textures look compared to players as they run by. before this patch everything was blue. but the changes cleared that issue up apart from the players.

im still continuing to see the faces of the models carry this colour tone of the background atmosphere. ie like a blue rinse. there is zero skin tone.

my suggestion to sd would be if possible remove any process that adds to or removes colour from the player skins. just leave lighting and come from that angle. instead of trying lots of gimmicky effects which just are not working. remembering that i know nothing of the processes that they are using so i just have to guess.

these player skins have to completely POP into clear view. then you can start to tone it down if its too much.

If SD continually say hey look at these great skins. they are in the game now enjoy. when that is completely untrue. we as testers have no where to go.
it was the same with spawn timings. sd said its the way we want, its good. but it wasnt. we all understood, well 90+%. and spent months banging our heads against the wall over it. finally we have it.

If SD truely want feedback on these skins we need more information and direct feedback.

its 6 months later and the player skins and identification are worse than when i started. not only do we have two identical looking teams but they are the same colour. the weird thing is im the only one complaining about it. im sure im not colour blind. but the over reliance on iff is a HUGE mistake and if it continues to do this you can forget friendly fire servers.

id like sd to try out greens and reds on the basis that enemies are light and friendlies are dark. the brown looks bad.
but we are so far away from that atm.

in game in areas of fighting where i cant tell by direction or iffs are overlapping i cant tell who is who.

if sd want proper feedback from myself they need to sort out the scaling of the hud icons inc iff as im running after text a lot of the time which i definitely dont want to do. or i just throw as much lead in the general direction of the enemy.

Some good examples from the pre-alpha

the grey works if its brighter. the green also.

[malarky]

It concerns me that just because we’ve gone quiet on the issue to give SD time to implement the fix that they apparently think this is now a non-issue.

Not true. Team ID and the associated issues have been a huge topic of discussion in the office for a long while now, which is why you see us testing various things in the alpha. More comments = more information to improve our decision making process, so please keep them coming.

[QUOTE=scre4m.;448990]looks quite good

health bars for enemy teams are stupid. I wish all IFFs disappeared.[/QUOTE]

Why is that?

[scre4m1]

Why is that?

Actually they are fine for teammates, but I dont want them for enemy team.
Because IFFs will always give away your position. No matter how far away you are, or whether there was a huge explosion throwing up ashes and smoke in the air. IFFs wont care.
Sneaking around the enemy is not possible, They will see these stupid IFFs popping up whenever you run past a little gap between 2 walls ot whatever.
I mean, you wont always see an enemy when he is on your screen. If he is far away and only visible very short and maybe even moving near the border of your screen. You wont always recognize the model, unless a stupid signal colored IFF pops up.

What is actually the reason for having them? bad visibility of player models? I just never ever noticed why they are in a game. It’s more like a workaround imo.

Sure you can disable them client-side, but it gives you more of disadvantages.

[Mustang]

[QUOTE=scre4m.;448990]health bars for enemy teams are stupid. I wish all IFFs disappeared.

Why is that?[/QUOTE]

• Gives away their position too easily making sneak tactics less effective, a good sneak makes great omfg moments for viewers and the players performing them alike.
• Less immersive and generally the feeling of being too hand-holdy, it the skins and are good enough then they shouldn’t be needed, so also the feeling of making up for inadequacies else-where.
• Off-putting for aim, at least it’s not as bad as the off-centre shoulder lights which make you aim too far to the right, or the soldier backpacks which make the head impossible to see and aim too high, so this is more of a minor point.

Having said that I do like the idea of knowing who I’m dueling with during the fight, not after. So could we test with IFF completely off and then later on some system that shows names on mouse over, perhaps fading out after a couple of seconds rather than immediately on mouse off so as to give time to read the names.

EDIT: Cross-posted with scre4m, seems like he is agreeing with my first two points at least. Also did not know you could disable them client-side, going to test how this feels. +rep

[stealth6]

[QUOTE=scre4m.;449405]Actually they are fine for teammates, but I dont want them for enemy team.
Because IFFs will always give away your position. No matter how far away you are, or whether there was a huge explosion throwing up ashes and smoke in the air. IFFs wont care.
Sneaking around the enemy is not possible, They will see these stupid IFFs popping up whenever you run past a little gap between 2 walls ot whatever.
I mean, you wont always see an enemy when he is on your screen. If he is far away and only visible very short and maybe even moving near the border of your screen. You wont always recognize the model, unless a stupid signal colored IFF pops up.

What is actually the reason for having them? bad visibility of player models? I just never ever noticed why they are in a game. It’s more like a workaround imo.

Sure you can disable them client-side, but it gives you more of disadvantages.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this so much. “Let’s just throw the whole idea of sneaking out the window!”

[iwound]

Light changes when i move.

characters have a monochrome effect almost like they’re in an old western.
reminds me of toy soldiers made of brown plastic. no contrast between skin and cloth. the brown matches the brick.

The clearest character atm. clothes with different colours. clearly the med.
can still be affected by colour wash in camden for example. but better contrast than all the others.

Detail in parts is good but can be affected by light changes so can go from being able to see detail to a flat effect. ie i was watching a covert run up the street to the chapel on whitechapel while ev was moving to lift. at one point the character moves into and then out of good light.

[MrFunkyFunk]

Why is that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=scre4m.;449405]Because IFFs will always give away your position. No matter how far away you are, or whether there was a huge explosion throwing up ashes and smoke in the air. IFFs wont care.
They will see these stupid IFFs popping up whenever you run past a little gap between 2 walls ot whatever.
I mean, you wont always see an enemy when he is on your screen. If he is far away and only visible very short and maybe even moving near the border of your screen. You wont always recognize the model, unless a stupid signal colored IFF pops up.

Yep, been hammering this for quite some time.
See what scre4m speaks about in my example screenshot in one of my previous post.

I’ve disabled enemies IFF’s to see what’s going on on my screen but what’s the point if every one around still has them.

Might aswell add arrows pointing out the enemies on the players screens with a huge info bubble saying “PSSSH! HEY! THERE’S SOMEONE THERE, I BET YOU HADN’T NOTICED ;))))”

[scre4m1]

See what scre4m speaks about in my example screenshot in one of my previous post.

thx for posting an example. I currently cant launch the game, so I wasn’t able to post one myself. screw blocked ports in this damn network…
I’ve been posting this several times now, as well and finally some dev at least asked for the reason. hopefully we will finally get noticed, cause this is quite an issue to me.

[warbie]

Aside from gameplay issues, floating icons just look messy.

//edit

and what’s the benefit? Older games were fine without.