The med train or fast rez problem

(extraordinaryEmperor) #1

This comes as a big problem time after time for me, and I’m sure I’m not alone. Here’s a scenario:
You ambush a group of three people and manage to down 2 of them, but then you don’t have enough ammo to finish them off before the medic starts rezzing them. Or you manage to down and finish them, but now you have no ammo to deal with the medic. Or you manage to down two of them, all the while the medic is just charging up his/her defib for a near full hp rez.

So my question is, should the down hp be lowered so you don’t spend 1/3 of your magazine just trying to finish off someone who can’t even fight, or should the medic rez be changed so you can’t pre-charge defibs but have defibs act as a faster revive than other classes, along with a longer charge doing what it does now.

(Szakalot) #2

neither, its good as is. if you see 3 opponents you have to target the medic first.

thats kind of what the whole game is bout

(Dawnlazy) #3

Standing around charging defibs during a fight is usually a bad idea that will get both players killed, it’s much better if the medic fights alongside the other player. Only Sparks can sometimes play like that if she’s at a distance and can’t see the enemy, but the time to stand up from a Sparks revive is long enough that even bodyshots from a pistol can break 100 damage and gib. I think it’s fine how it is, they already nerfed several aspects of reviving. I would perhaps like to remove localized leg damage to downed enemies since leg shots cause less damage and it can be kinda awkward to hit them properly when they’re lying on the ground doing weird jerky movements.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #4

@Szakalot That’s not always possible, which is the biggest problem. Especially when everyone’s moving around, bullets get blocked and so forth. Not to mention when you’ve already downed one guy, the medic might already be half way rezzing him with the tap of an e.

(Dufayne) #5

As an aura recon primary, this is something I also see as a problem. On one hand I have to spend my time and half clip ammo to gib someone from quick reviving someone I already took down, all the while in a fire fight. On the other side of coin, I see this people down and as aura run into shots to quick Rez. Since I recon medic all the time, I cannot recall the last time I’ve charged my defibs.
I believe a quick fix would be to lower the damage to gib a downed player. Doing so forces players to rely greater on medics healing abilities and cover rather than revive trains. This lower gib dmg limit would allow less Opportunity to quick revive for defibs Yet coincidentally makes sparks distant insta-revives more useful (considering her weakish heal packs, it’s gives her extra value without needing direct buffs).
Downed players shouldn’t be ground targets I focus on in a firefight as it makes DB a little gamey by forcing attention away from normal priorities. But as an aura medic, the way things are works to my advantage.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #6

@Dufayne Basically that. Not to mention that as a medic I can long jump and charge mid air then give a big hp rez to a downed teammate, even more if I have the revive perk.

(Szakalot) #7

the key point is that both teams have these medics. that and the fact that concentrated fire can gib anyone, no matter how quick the medic is and you get yourself these awesomen teamfights: likenon underground between 1st and 2nd obj, or bridge last obj front entrance

(extraordinaryEmperor) #8

@Szakalot Except now this game sounds like a Moba. All you need is numbers and less skill, which doesn’t really feel fun in a pub game.

(Jostabeere) #9

Noone forces you to stay there alone. It’s a team-game after all. Failed to kill 3 people solo? Return with a teammate. They had better teamwork than you, nothing more.

And this is simply the definition of a bad medic. Please, if we meet in a game, let me die instead giving me only 40 HP. Thanks.

(ClemClem7) #10

If the medic only revive a merc with quick tap, he will have low Hp and need to retreat to recover health, then your job is done. If he retreats, you can push and doing the objective. There is no problem about revive mechanic in this game.

(Dufayne) #11

@Jostabeere , quick judgement call on your part. Considering in the games I play a recon medic providing call outs and teamwork, a nearby health station and a loadout card suiting for quick Rez, I’m fortunate to have a strong alternative play style that allows me to be quite good at what I do. If your name is same as in the games, I will certainly be looking for you and use discretion of how to heal based on your in game attitude.

(watsyurdeal) #12

Assault mercs like Nader and Fragger usually counter that problem pretty easily.

(LifeupOmega) #13

It’s funny 'cause this isn’t an issue in the slightest if you target the medic first, or actually play as a team.

Also, who remembers old revives? Now that was true bullshit, especially with 50% Get Up.

(Jostabeere) #14

You can be recon as much as you want, but a teammate revived with only a part of his HP will be dead faster than someone with 100+.

(Dufayne) #15

In ideal situations I would agree…no one wants to be half dead. But people do not need to be fully healed to be effective. In many circumstances getting someone off the ground is ideal when there is a nearby healing solution. Heck, sawbonez (extra supplies) can pop someone up and throw a med pack at them with two buttons without waiting at the expense of a quick replacing medpack. Defibs heals alone take a few seconds and in DB and other team based games, each second counts.
Also as a medic it is preferable to have three injured players providing firepower & covering as you heal vs one fully healed player who is outnumbered. Plus, if I’m right you may die again and again but still be revived several times because of the fibbing mechanic currently allows to be downed a number of times if under the damage threshold. This is exploitable in that the medic just pops out again and again. Watching an opponent do that is disconcerting when you’ve downed a person twice in a row and now are out of ammo as they shoot you.
Considering that a quick rez and nearby heals can shave off quarters of a minute that it would take to respawn, gain bearings and join fight (think time saved from teleporting in tf2), I would rather get someone off the ground while helping the fight than Let a level 6 go to respawn or idly wait to fully defib him. In some cases I’ve not even bothered to Rez, instead shooting the player since they are distracted gibbing that lvl 6 with a medic next to him.
Ironically Aura and TF2 engie ironically have similar play aspects such as healing station, shotgun on light body, a way to keep people at the frontline and most importantly the need to be efficient. So considering a smart player will look for health before rejoining a fight and good players will communicate where to go for heals, medics can exploit those few seconds it takes to gib a player to get their team up and still actually fight.
Where I’m going with this is that medics have an inherent advantage under the current gibbing mechanic. While not game breaking, it is gamey for either the shooter or the medic reviving. All it would take is lowering the dmg threshold by 10-15 points to see a small but notable difference. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind how it is now… I’m just pointing it out as someone who takes advantage of it and would be just as happy if it stayed the same.

(LoliGagging) #16

Obviously u just go in for the mlg knife kill

Or u can run

Tbh I don’t see how those scenarios have to do with medics needing a nerf. It’s kind of like u charged in by urself and ur teammates weren’t there to help.

Assuming none of ur teammates were anywhere close for whatever reason, the last guy could just pick up the medic, who resses the other guy. If it’s the medic that’s alive, they could just pick up the other two downed guys.

If u finished the two guys, it doesn’t matter if the last guy is a medic or not, u still die and they lost 2 ppl.

If there’s a medic charging their defibs during the fight, u prob should’ve ambushed them first. I mean why are u attacking 3 ppl at once anyways. Unless ur like confident u can gun down 3 of them without abilities, it’s a bad idea.

Is dis one of dem pub scenarios

(N8o) #17

[quote=“Dufayne;163849”] Since I recon medic all the time, I cannot recall the last time I’ve charged my defibs.
[/quote]
The only way this is ever acceptable is if you are reviving someone next to a station or trying to get someone up before enemies turn the corner or gib them.

(Jostabeere) #18

@Dufayne I refuse to believe you have a station near every downed merc you revive. Or are you putting the station down before you revive every single teammate? Cause I play Aura a lot. And very often there is no station near teammates. And very often they’re in a crossfire, so a revive-tap will end up in them being killed before they can fight back or retreat.

(Dufayne) #19

@Jostabeere, Again its placement all depends on the circumstance. On the attack, I will carry it more often because of aggressive nature of team, throwing down as we go. Otherwise it chances being left behind. Yet when on the defense, placing a station down at key locations is more important than having it on hand. For example, when on bridge, stations should be kept near the EV During the first phase to ensure that team keeps an eye on the main focal point, aka a ‘forward base’. Ammo stations make these points team magnets.

@N8o What is acceptable isnt so clear cut. As Aura, who can ‘drop and forget’ her heals, quickness is a perk of hers. Running in quick for revive is acceptable when simultaneously being a threat to the enemy AND most especially when communicative teamwork is involved. All it sometimes takes is saying ‘go to the secondary behind you for heals’. It may be a shock to some, but people respond to this positively… To a point where by telling team something like ‘two on bridge, one on secondary stairwell’ allows players to avoid those crossfires, instead leading to team gaining the upper hand. When something is acceptable or not is all based in the moment.

(neverplayseriou) #20

@Dufayne you’re joking right? I would find it a miracle if my teammates knew what the secondary is…