The Katana problem (and Phantom fix proposals)

(Brycko) #1

I think a lot of problems with Phantom aren’t actually due so much to his cloak as it is to how his Katana can be abused paired with the cloak. I am guilty of invisible Katana charges, but the said truth is is that it’s an effective tactic at the moment, and shouldn’t be at all in DB’s high TTK gun skirmishing environment. Truth be told, if Phantom didn’t have the Katana, I think he would be much less of an issue.

Futhurmore, Phantom’s current cloak makes him too viable for ‘invisible combat’, which doesn’t work in games like DB which are all about aiming at something and shooting (you can’t kill what you can’t see). Phantom’s cloak should be used for a) repositioning behind enemy lines and disrupting the enemy from behind and b) for sneaking past the enemy and Gathering intel (like all the other recons).

Here are some of my proposed solutions:

  1. Longer Katana draw/equip time, paired with the inability to equip weapons when cloaked. It’s far too easy to combo some weapon fire with the Katana, or to slice someone up and than switch off to another weapon. Part of the reason people keep asking for a decloaking delay on Phantom is so people can counter getting sliced and diced. I propose an sheathing/unsheathing animation that leaves Phantom open to attack for a short duration. Furthermore, Phantom’s cloak would be used for REPOSITIONING and then firing on the enemy instead of destroying them straight out of the cloak, plus then you can’t Katana charge with the cloak because it takes time to equip the Katana coming out of the cloak.

  2. Revert cloak to as it was originally; more visibility when he moves, less when he’s walking and standing still and almost full invisibility when he is crouching. With the new Phantom rework, the devs unintentionally revitalized an old problem with Phantom, that of melee charges (which were horrific when paired with the extra health from his refractive armor). OR… more visibility with the melee equipped, less with his weapons. Forces people to use the cloak as a repositioning device for GUNPLAY.

The EMP is interesting for Phantom, but sadly I don’t think it works very well with his stealth gameplay. Firstly, it doesn’t counter the problem of Katana charges (because even if you notice him it’s usually still too late). Second, it requires him to be in close range to the enemy team, which is fine except the tendency for enemy teams is that people hand around deployables. If he attacks solo, even if he disables enemy deployables, it’s still a 5-3 vs 1 scenario, which means it’s unlikely he’ll survive the following gunfight, and there’s no guarantee that his team will charge in and join him before his cloak runs out or even at all.

Futhurmore, because spotting deployables is still a recent addition to the game, most player in pubs haven’t made the connection that a spotted deployable == a disabled deployable therefore the enemy team is open and we should charge. For vets, spotting doesn’t necessarily mean ‘it’s time to charge the enemy team’, it just means ‘oh, there’s a person/deployable there that I should destroy at some point’ or ‘oh, that’s where the enemy team has set up’. But it doesn’t guarantee a response, and hence, Phantom’s EMP doesn’t pair well with his cloak; it relies on his team too heavily to follow up. Even if it was separated from the cloak, I don’t think it would work well on Phantom.

  1. I have an alternative to suggest; a close-range spotting ability (similar to the range of the original EMP Aura) that not only spots enemy players, but also reveals what class/merc they are. This info is far more useful to Phantom and to the team because a) Phantom can priortize targets to go after, b) his team can prioritize targets and c) his team can prepare their attack. It also makes Phantom fairly counterable because mercs will know when they’ve been spotted (or, in a Phantom specific case, ‘identified’) and can plan for a Phantom attack.

  2. Other simple fixes:
    Decrease his speed to match his health buff.
    Make him spottable again by other recons.
    Slow running speed with the Katana.

Believe it or not, I really like Phantom. He’s a cool character that has the potential to be super useful but also require some skill. I want to see him in DB, the RIGHT way.

(l2c) #2

Spook kills is the only utility Phantom has. This idea that he’d be fine if the cloak only let him flank/reposition is cute, but the fact is when you get behind the enemy, you’ll be a merc with an smg, and NO OTHER means of being useful. One shot and you’d get annihilated.
Unless you have mad skills (at which point u can probably do the same with any merc), the flanking without cloak to surprise is useless, because Phantom doesn’t have any other tools. No nades, rockets, stickies, artillery, anything.
If you want to nerf/remove the katana, you better replace SMGs with ARs, and prepare for loads and loads of complaining and people quitting.

(henki000) #3

Thing is, Dirty Bomb is swift TTK enviroment where phantom fit just fine. Before he was garbage and not used in tournaments, or almost anywhere else. People wanted him to be more competent. Now he is not garbage anymore, but it is still uncertain if he will be used in tournaments. Perhaps small nerf is needed, nobody would argue against that. Not able to wield Katana while cloaked is not solution. It’s just silly. Why would he not be able to wield it? is Phantom retard? No. Katana is his trademark. Katana is classy weapon that should not be just useless ornament beside fireplace. If you revert cloak, he will just become as much garbage as he was before. Whats the point of using cloak, if you are not invinsible? I have been outplayed many times when cloaked, it seems invinsibility does not work with everyone. They can see straight where are you, even if you think you are hidden. But: "Decrease his speed to match his health buff. " -agree. "Make him spottable again by other recons. " -agree. “Slow running speed with the Katana.” disagree.

(GatoCommodore) #4

shooting out of cloak is faster anyway
and people who one shots with katana are noobs and should be ignored
(because one shotting people with katana and then caught by the enemy’s teammate is very good for the team right?)

phantom shines because he can score a kill right out of the bat from behind enemy lines with guns that has decent accuracy and damage, not because of the katana.

Katana range is limited while guns range are pretty far and some are borderline PDP tier OP if used right (Blishlok)

(Brycko) #5

@l2c said:
Spook kills is the only utility Phantom has. This idea that he’d be fine if the cloak only let him flank/reposition is cute, but the fact is when you get behind the enemy, you’ll be a merc with an smg, and NO OTHER means of being useful. One shot and you’d get annihilated.
Unless you have mad skills (at which point u can probably do the same with any merc), the flanking without cloak to surprise is useless, because Phantom doesn’t have any other tools. No nades, rockets, stickies, artillery, anything.
If you want to nerf/remove the katana, you better replace SMGs with ARs, and prepare for loads and loads of complaining and people quitting.

Did you ever play Phantom before the rework? It was kinda what you had to do with him to be effective before. But yeah his weapon choices are kind weird if you’re trying to kill the enemy quickly, you can basically only get headshots with the Blish/Kek or shred them with the Crotzni.

I guess this would be where one would use the heavy pistols but they still aren’t super helpful and difficult to control. Personally I find the most effective weapon for spook kills would be the Simeon because of it’s low spread, recoil, the sights and decent damage. Phantom’s weapon choices are just weird in general. Not sure what the alternatives would be tho.

I’m fine with spook kills, but then Phantom has to have the ability to quickly disappear after a spook kill to avoid getting annihilated by the rest of the enemy team, which means his invis has to have a really short cooldown (which is difficult to balance because he might as well just be invisible for the rest of the match). It could work if being cloaked gave some sort of combat or movement disadvantage, but then it’d be more difficult to get a spook kill and run away. 'tis a viscous cycle. You could use idea 1) and have it so he can’t shoot or equip weapons straight of the cloak and make it so he has a quiet decloak sound, but that’s a huge balancing gamble. I can see why the devs are having a hard time balancing him. I think a movement penalty with the cloak would be the best option TBH.

(Gire) #6

Phantom… too viable?! HAH it doesnt matter if you have a katana, a cricket bat works the same way, it even has faster swing speed but like 5 less dmg

(Szakalot) #7

Phantom worked fine on 7v7 and 8v8 pubs where the constant chaos, gunfire, and lack of communication between teammates allowed him to constantly flank and harass the enemy.

All of it drops in 5v5 pugs, good players will easily spot him and once that is done he is a bushwhacker caught out of position.

Now that the armor element has been removed, he will be an even bigger meme in pugs, especially with how apparently he is crazy visible on potato settings.

(Sorotia) #8

His cloak is the problem…its generally either to good or to lousy to do much with. To me it’s the easiest it has ever been for me to see him. (Perhaps since they adjusted setting so all have a fairer time to see him.) I can see him if I’m looking for him even while standing still if I keep a real close eye.