The issue with low FPS on ATI cards

(Wyndle) #1

My opinion stated below is based on 1.5 decades of tech support experience including years with one of the Fortune 5 companies.

The problem is not ATI per se but how SD attempts to interface with the instructions made available to them by ATI. The software is either making a bad call under specific circumstances or it is not getting the expected response. I can only speculate on that front without getting my hands on data that I’m sure SD won’t release (and I don’t blame them). I am sure that they are working with ATI to the best of their ability to resolve the issue but they still haven’t found the root cause yet. I suspect that it is somethey they have overlooked or dismissed. Something simple that seems too easy or unrelated.

ATI has already stated that they don’t see a problem and the latest driver release seems to have made the problem worse for Brink players. It doesn’t absolve ATI of doubt but the majority of the evidence is leaning toward SD’s code and how they are trying to interact with ATI instructions.

If I had a hand in the situation I’d have 3 programmers (alternating shifts) from each of the companies to sit in a room and pour over the code line by line until the problem is found. From my experience, having the devs and the vendor physically in the same room helps in ways that phone or online support couldn’t possibly. Body language or a subtle “huh” can clue others in to what may be what they’re looking for.

(kilL_888) #2

[QUOTE=Wyndle;355242]My opinion stated below is based on 1.5 decades of tech support experience including years with one of the Fortune 5 companies.

Body language or a subtle “huh” can clue others in to what may be what they’re looking for.[/QUOTE]

did you work in a call center for microsoft or something like that?

i dont get your point though? you suggesting to fly some ati people over to london to sit down with the splash damage crew and have a drink or two, to discuss programming issues?

(Jimmy James) #3

Christ almighty, you couldn’t post this to one of the dozens of other ATI threads?

I’ve been doing tech support since 1990 and I say it is a problem with ATI cards. So I guess that makes my opinion more valid right?

Can we get a forum mod to merge all of these threads please?

-JJ

(Wyndle) #4

Essentially, yes. Though it may be more cost efficient to send some of the SD crew to ATI’s office. Either way both companies have a vested interest in getting this figured out.

(Wyndle) #5

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim? So far the only evidence that I have seen is that this game has a problem interacting with ATI cards. I have not experienced the same problem in any other game and I have not seen specific information about it happening in other games. I have seen some unsubstantiated claims that ATI has problems in other games but I need facts to go on. These facts may also help narrow down where the problem is and how to solve the issue.

EDIT - Sorry if it sounds like I’m preaching or trying to do the work of others for them, this is just what I do. I don’t normally solve the problems of coders but I regularly open their eyes to something they’ve missed.

(StarkRavinMad) #6

LOL when did tech support become developers?

(Wyndle) #7

[QUOTE=StarkRavinMad;355283]LOL when did tech support become developers?[/QUOTE]The role of tech support is to help solve problems. It doesn’t matter if the problem is on the user end or the back end. Tech support is in the habit of asking questions until answers start showing up. I have made some assumptions above based on the limited amount of information available to me where normally I would assume nothing and only accept concrete and verifiable answers. I’ve worked with developers and vendors to hash out problems and more often than not the answer was locked under a question that the developers didn’t ask because they thought they knew the answer already.

(Jimmy James) #8

Just 2 decades of experience building gaming computers. That’s all.

-JJ

(Wyndle) #9

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;355308]Just 2 decades of experience building gaming computers. That’s all.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

That isn’t evidence. Name specific games.

(Jimmy James) #10

Actually it’s more like this:

Friend: Dude, I got this new game insert name and it runs like crap. You’re the PC tech, fix it!

JJ: What kind of video card you got?

Friend: ATI

JJ: Buy a nVidia.

(week later) Friend: Thanks man, fixed all my problems. I didn’t realize how slow my other games were running until I got this nVidia card.

JJ: nVidia FTW! Now get online so I can destroy you.

(Wyndle) #11

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;355335]Actually it’s more like this:

Friend: Dude, I got this new game insert name and it runs like crap. You’re the PC tech, fix it!

JJ: What kind of video card you got?

Friend: ATI

JJ: Buy a nVidia.

(week later) Friend: Thanks man, fixed all my problems. I didn’t realize how slow my other games were running until I got this nVidia card.

JJ: nVidia FTW! Now get online so I can destroy you.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. It doesn’t help with this topic but interesting none the less.

If you can provide some factual evidence I welcome it. I’ve seen tons of fancamp wars on game forums and I’m not interested in participating in any. I may not be getting paid by SD (or ATI for that matter) but I have a mild interest in trying to help SD get a handle on this situation so that there will be more PC players for me to shoot at in game. The game has great potential and I’d hate to see it blown over an issue with just one hardware set.

(Jimmy James) #12

I’m not sure how much more “factual” evidence you need. I’m speaking purely from my experience as a PC tech who’s been building gaming PCs for 2 decades.

It may all come down to “Brand Loyalty” in the end, but I’m just speaking from personal professional experience.

-JJ

(Mustang) #13

Pokes nose in
What’s this going on here then?

BRINK complies with OpenGL 3.1
nVidia GPU’s implement OpenGL 3.1 well and performance is decent
ATI GPU’s implement OpenGL 3.1 not so well and performance is poor

Not seeing how this is an issue of BRINK failing to interface with instructions made available by ATI
The instructions are determined by the OpenGL 3.1 standard, which ATI claims to support
The fact that an ATI card can’t cope with translating these instructions at a rate high enough to attain acceptable performance is surely lumping the ball well and truly in ATI’s side of the court

(Wyndle) #14

[QUOTE=Mustang;355542]Pokes nose in
What’s this going on here then?

BRINK complies with OpenGL 3.1
nVidia GPU’s implement OpenGL 3.1 well and performance is decent
ATI GPU’s implement OpenGL 3.1 not so well and performance is poor

Not seeing how this is an issue of BRINK failing to interface with instructions made available by ATI
The instructions are determined by the OpenGL 3.1 standard, which ATI claims to support
The fact that an ATI card can’t cope with translating these instructions at a rate high enough to attain acceptable performance is surely lumping the ball well and truly in ATI’s side of the court[/QUOTE]

Those are the types of facts that I was referring to. Forgive me if I have not read this explanation elsewhere. This makes sense with the anecdotal evidence that had been presented so far.

With this information in mind, is there a specific item within opengl that is bogging down the ATI response times? So far the common factors appear to be online playing and ATI hardware. I admit that I have customized many facets of my OS that most users wouldn’t and this may be why I haven’t seen this problem. Forgive me for making another assumption but it almost sounds like ATI opengl handling is in conflict with network calls.

(alberto) #15

SD set fire and resque the insurance’s money!!! NOW!!!

ok am kidding :smiley:

(StarkRavinMad) #16

[QUOTE=Wyndle;355627]Those are the types of facts that I was referring to. Forgive me if I have not read this explanation elsewhere. This makes sense with the anecdotal evidence that had been presented so far.

With this information in mind, is there a specific item within opengl that is bogging down the ATI response times? So far the common factors appear to be online playing and ATI hardware. I admit that I have customized many facets of my OS that most users wouldn’t and this may be why I haven’t seen this problem. Forgive me for making another assumption but it almost sounds like ATI opengl handling is in conflict with network calls.[/QUOTE]

You should stop there. Not trying to be rude, but you’re train is already off the tracks. You can join a completely empty match and walk around certain maps and watch the framerate go from 100fps to 17 to 30 to 70 to 25… Network traffic when you are the only player will be close to 0. Futhermore, network traffic will only contain positional information and will have very little to do with what is being rendered on your screen.

(Smoochy) #17

maps like shipyard kill ATI too. yet on nvidia they are fine.

play offline and some of the issues still occur.

#18

[QUOTE=Smoochy;355957]maps like shipyard kill ATI too. yet on nvidia they are fine.

play offline and some of the issues still occur.[/QUOTE]

For instance:
Security Tower offline, outside. FPS is random. my 5870 is ok, usually averaging 60fps but it does drop to 30ish in bits. It is playable, but disappointing, especially considering how awesome my card is at every other game I have, even Supreme Commander 2 online on an 8 player map with 500 units per side max. only drops to that frame rate :S

(V F) #19

[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;355966]For instance:
Security Tower offline, outside. FPS is random. my 5870 is ok, usually averaging 60fps but it does drop to 30ish in bits. It is playable, but disappointing, especially considering how awesome my card is at every other game I have, even Supreme Commander 2 online on an 8 player map with 500 units per side max. only drops to that frame rate :S[/QUOTE]

This is the thing that annoys me the most and it hasn’t improved to this day. Nothing changed on my system except that Brink patch. There’s been another, it never improved a thing sadly.

(Smoochy) #20

if you had ok with 11.5b then why not go back to it? did 11.7 help?!