The formula has already been written.

[pulley]

What I appreciate about SD the most is that they aren’t in it just for the money. They really do want to make everyone happy, but we sort of screw it up for ourselves in a lot of ways when we can’t make compromises on issues. Brink tried too hard to appease the non-vet ET players by completely changing the basic mechanics of the games. What would have been better was to make it more user friendly and informative to the public and spent more time on developing ideas like SMART movement and alot of the other innovative ideas. The solution to these games in my opinion is to find a way to bring all the communities together.

loooool arent in for the money XD That makes my day. You are hilarious

[Protekt1]

loooool arent in for the money XD That makes my day. You are hilarious

He said aren’t in it JUST for the money. Of course they are trying to make a living. A profits allow games to exist so… yeah they’re trying to make a profit too. That doesn’t mean their sole motivation is money.

[pulley]

ya maybe the little designer likes his job and its ok for him if he only earns a few bugs but you can never say SD arent in it JUST for the money. XD

[Protekt1]

ya maybe the little designer likes his job and its ok for him if he only earns a few bugs but you can never say SD arent in it JUST for the money. XD

You don’t seem to understand the intent behind his usage of JUST at all.

[INF3RN0]

loooool arent in for the money XD That makes my day. You are hilarious

Do you have any idea how unprofitable a FREE PC only ET title will be compared to what they could be doing instead? They are privately funding this after all lol… that shows some ounce of dedication to fans ie “not in it JUST for the money”. How is that funny?

[pulley]

it really is extremely funny. They all have to life from something. So they have to earn money. It always goes down to the money…

[INF3RN0]

Strychzilla’s idea included assigning a points value to every item and only allowing players to load up to a maximum number of points, so if you could only load say 20 points, and there were 2 OP weapons available to a class that were 15 points each, you could only have 1 of them, plus some other weaker ability worth 5 points, for example. You could have a strong weapon + weak ability, or weak weapon + strong ability, but not strong weapon + strong ability if their total points exceeded the max. value you could hold.

I was down for that, though it really does sound incredibly similar to how the LoL skill tree functions. I know some people think it would be doomed to fail. Your basically trading combat efficiency for ability efficiency. That’s a potentially good idea to me as long as it can balance out well; in terms of giving players more opportunity to mesh things to their play style. I’m mostly afraid that I’ll end up always wanting to be combat efficient unless the class abilities really have a more meaningful impact/usefulness for the team. Middle ground should always be the most useful and desired, where as other proficiencies should just be available to the player temporarily less competent in one area.

[INF3RN0]

it really is extremely funny. They all have to life from something. So they have to earn money. It always goes down to the money…

Maybe English is your second language? Your missing the point which can’t really be made any more clearly…

[Kendle]

I’m mostly afraid that I’ll end up always wanting to be combat efficient unless the class abilities really have a more meaningful impact/usefulness for the team.

Yeah, that’s one of the fundamental problems at the moment. I’d probably want to go for a support Medic load-out, good at reviving and healing, not so good at killing people, because I’m not that good a shot to begin with, but in DB at the moment that kind of load-out would be wasted because short spawn times, poor revive protection, regen packs rather than health packs, plus of course global health regen, makes the medic’ing part of the Medic’s role not as useful as it could / should be.

[INF3RN0]

Yeah, that’s one of the fundamental problems at the moment. I’d probably want to go for a support Medic load-out, good at reviving and healing, not so good at killing people, because I’m not that good a shot to begin with, but in DB at the moment that kind of load-out would be wasted because short spawn times, poor revive protection, regen packs rather than health packs, plus of course global health regen, makes the medic’ing part of the Medic’s role not as useful as it could / should be.

Yea it works exactly like that. If that were to change though (which I hope it will), that sort of system would be very nice. I can see a lot of class value changing with weapon tweaks and strafe speed (TTK/consistency/difficulty), spawn times, map layout, class map interactions (continuous side objs), etc. If those things change much then certain aspects of classes like the medic would be increased in importance and effectiveness. I’d like to have those things finalized first if possible, before moving on to things like ammo dependency, etc.

[Protekt1]

Yeah, that’s one of the fundamental problems at the moment. I’d probably want to go for a support Medic load-out, good at reviving and healing, not so good at killing people, because I’m not that good a shot to begin with, but in DB at the moment that kind of load-out would be wasted because short spawn times, poor revive protection, regen packs rather than health packs, plus of course global health regen, makes the medic’ing part of the Medic’s role not as useful as it could / should be.

I feel on the contrary about medic’s abilities at the moment. They can revive a team very quickly and heal very efficiently. 1 health pack = 1 fully healed player. The jumper cables seem to have little to no cooldown at all.

I think spawns could be tweaked slightly but even as it stands the current spawns are a penalty in both time and positioning. And its not only the time it takes to respawn that is lost but the time to get back to the fight. And at that point your strong positioning may be lost or compromised.

To be fair I probably need more time with the loadouts to be an effective judge at each. But I currently think medic is a very useful loadout to bring to a fight. You can’t really rely on health regen too much since you’re losing a good amount of time just waiting to heal up. And if you’re facing someone who has the health regen they can at that point just rush you while they’re healing up and you’re a hit or two away from death.

[Kendle]

Health regen stops when you receive damage, so it’s only 1 fully healed player if they can get themselves out of the line of fire, and if you’re facing someone who is regenerating just put a bullet in them, then you won’t be facing someone who is regenerating.

Plus, in the context of this thread, it’s all a matter of perspective. The game the OP refers to, RTCW, had much longer spawn times, and you started with much less ammo. By comparison you can die and be back in the action with loads of ammo very quickly in DB, which undermines the Medics ability to keep the team alive and fighting.

So whilst you’re not wrong, the Medic has been significantly dumbed down in this game compared to it’s predecessors, and team-work has suffered as a result.

[Protekt1]

[QUOTE=Kendle;439492]Health regen stops when you receive damage, so it’s only 1 fully healed player if they can get themselves out of the line of fire, and if you’re facing someone who is regenerating just put a bullet in them, then you won’t be facing someone who is regenerating.

Plus, in the context of this thread, it’s all a matter of perspective. The game the OP refers to, RTCW, had much longer spawn times, and you started with much less ammo. By comparison you can die and be back in the action with loads of ammo very quickly in DB, which undermines the Medics ability to keep the team alive and fighting.

So whilst you’re not wrong, the Medic has been significantly dumbed down in this game compared to it’s predecessors, and team-work has suffered as a result.[/QUOTE]

If a bullet didn’t stop regen, the medic wouldn’t be balanced at all. But equating the health regen to removing medic’s role or even dumbing it down is simply not true. How long does it take before natural regeneration kicks in? Its got to be like 4-5 seconds. That is a long time in a fps. And how long does it take to heal from 10-100%? Pretty long. I don’t know with exactness how long these take but 4-5 seconds of not regenerating while your opponent does regenerate is a very big deal. You can easily recover from poor performance with near instant regeneration abilities and you can even have the medpack down before you’re shot. Smart use of medpacks under the current system has very very high potential.

Spawns like I said could use some work. I like the idea of spawn waves but I don’t like the idea of getting lucky and spawning near instantly just because you died at the right time. To mitigate this I would have the spawn wave timer only begin when someone has died and reset if there are no people waiting for respawn. This adds more penalty to death and eliminates the benefits of a well timed suicide. I don’t think you should be awarded with full health, ammo, and grenades with 0 downtime just because you got lucky or even worse you suicide at the right time. In regards to suicides, I think there should be a mandatory wait to make the only substantial benefit of suiciding the ability to change loadouts quickly.

[Kendle]

If a bullet didn’t stop regen, the medic wouldn’t be balanced at all.

If there was no regen it’d be irrelevant.

But equating the health regen to removing medic’s role or even dumbing it down is simply not true.

Lucky I’m not doing that then I guess. I’m equating the overall class functionality in DB, and the overall functionality of all other classes in DB, with their corresponding classes in RTCW, the game the OP specifically mentions, the one I assume you never played?

I like the idea of spawn waves but I don’t like the idea of getting lucky and spawning near instantly just because you died at the right time.

In practise that would only happen, on average, 50% of the time. The other 50% you’d die just AFTER the spawn timer has ticked over. In other words you only get lucky sometimes, on average the same number of times you get unlucky in fact.

[Protekt1]

[QUOTE=Kendle;439496]If there was no regen it’d be irrelevant.

Lucky I’m not doing that then I guess. I’m equating the overall class functionality in DB, and the overall functionality of all other classes in DB, with their corresponding classes in RTCW, the game the OP specifically mentions, the one I assume you never played?

In practise that would only happen, on average, 50% of the time. The other 50% you’d die just AFTER the spawn timer has ticked over. In other words you only get lucky sometimes, on average the same number of times you get unlucky in fact.[/QUOTE]

The only coherent response in this post was regarding spawns. If you wish to elaborate on the previous two paragraphs of the post, feel free to do so. I sense some frustration by your resort to ad hominem. Please respond without a baseless assumption. RTCW is a game I still hold fond memories of even though its a game I played pre-college. BTW that game’s medic had passive health regen.

One thing I do have to point out is that you claim medics are not being trivialized or dumbed down yet you’re saying their overall functionality is not as good as in a different game… so you’re in fact saying that the medic’s role is being reduced (I didn’t literally mean removed which is kind’ve clear from the content of my posts; dumbed down were your words which you just claimed to not be saying).

Regarding spawns, there shouldn’t be luck involved to that extent. And no you wouldn’t 50% of the time die after the spawn timer has ticked over. If the spawn timer is 10 seconds, then you will about 10% of the time have to wait for the full respawn timer. Also, 10% of the time will have you wait 1 second or less. Its simple math that shows most of the time you will not be waiting the entire length. 50% of the time you would wait less 5 seconds, assuming the spawn wave timer were 10 seconds long. Simple math.

[tokamak]

[Kendle]

…you claim medics are not being trivialized or dumbed down…

When did I say that?

…dumbed down were your words which you just claimed to not be saying

Contradiction? Anyway, I said Medics were being dumbed down, but for different reasons than the one you attributed to me.

And no you wouldn’t 50% of the time die after the spawn timer has ticked over.

I guess it was my use of the word “just” that gave a different meaning to what I intended, so apologies for that. What I meant was, if you consider spawning less than spawn time / 2 before the next spawn as a “lucky” spawn, then given that 50% of the time you’ll die longer than spawn time / 2 before the next spawn, over time “lucky” spawns will be cancelled out by “unlucky” spawns. Hope that’s clearer?

[Hundopercent]

The luck factor will be removed when they add a timer (I’m assuming here since the previous titles did.) You would generally time your attacks with the spawn timer to reduce excessive downtime.

Medics in general are weaker than previous titles because of the low TTK, inability to heal during combat, unable to revive in a firefight, fast spawns, and reduced ammo.

[tangoliber]

Strychzilla’s idea included assigning a points value to every item and only allowing players to load up to a maximum number of points, so if you could only load say 20 points, and there were 2 OP weapons available to a class that were 15 points each, you could only have 1 of them, plus some other weaker ability worth 5 points, for example. You could have a strong weapon + weak ability, or weak weapon + strong ability, but not strong weapon + strong ability if their total points exceeded the max. value you could hold.

Yea… that’s a good way to make customizable loadouts work. I would support that.

[godfather]

[QUOTE=Valdez;437479]I know a lot of people are going to think I am just asking for Rtcw remade here, but lets be honest, DB has a lot of elements from Rtcw, just not the perfect mix.

Why is it that people think Rtcw 2 would not be successful? I am not saying it would have to be Rtcw remade, but it would need everything that made Rtcw the game that it is.

The game would not need the same maps as Rtcw, but maps that are equally as good. (doc run maps preferably, because these maps added epic last second thrills). If you look at Rtcw maps they are simple as can be. Defense spawns in one location the entire match, offense either spawns in one location or grabs a forward spawn point. The key point here is that they were balanced (felt fair at all points), there were defined spots to setup your defense and there are obvious choke points. (we can add better gfx and better netcode also).

I understand gaming is not necessarily a sport, but why can’t it be as simple as a sport like basketball, football, baseball or even hockey?? Basketball is still played 5v5… point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward and center. The hoops are still 10 ft in height last time I checked, and the ball is still round.

To me fps gaming is about firing a weapon, cut out all the other unnecessary stuff and let’s keep this simple. The focus needs to be on gun battles. In Rtcw, there was almost too much spam… Airstrikes, arty strikes and panzerfausts. The good thing was at least you had a warning of incoming airstrikes and incoming artys. Basically they were used as a means to direct players into a building, staircases or just out of their defensive positions, this allowed the panzer to welcome them aboard when they were all grouped up. I was not a huge fan of the panzerfaust, but I respected it due to it adding a great strategic element. Due to the panzer you were not allowed to all group up and run as a 6 man team, you had to have strategic 3/3, 2/2/2 or even 4/2 splits, these split attacks were all timed based on the enemies spawn and also your own spawn time, so whenever the most advantageous time to attack is when you would want to attack. Panzerfaust, also added a weapon where the newbies could kill a great player (very important), however after firing his shot he would be lucky to do anything else but die. In the hands of a great player he could potentially kill 3-4 guys that were grouped up, then he would still have his pistol to fend people off. The panzer also had a spin up or charge up time before being able to fire (probably 1-2s), this gave a skilled player a chance to kill him before even getting his shot off. One more point about the panzer, it added a **** ton of excitement to the game, everyone wanted to see multi kill panzer shots.

If you ask me there are fps gamers who play for the single player story (Bioshock Infinite), there are also fps gamers who play to dominate the opposition, I believe you will not have fun if you are getting your teeth kicked in. Just like if you are playing basketball vs way better players / teams and getting trounced by 40 pts. This is where different leagues for different skill levels come in, peons want to play vs peons or great players want to play vs other great players. Just like in basketball, there are church leagues and then there is the NBA. So I suggest putting a ranking system like this in game, that way everyone will be happy playing vs similar opposition. The ranking system could be similar to Elo rating for League of Legends and Starcraft 2, not like the most basic leveling systems found in CoD/Battlefield franchise games. (I believe you already plan on doing this).

There is also this whole f2p thing, I am well aware that you guys need to make money here :). I will leave this part up to you guys, this post is just about making a kickass game. Maybe after getting the initial game intact, then you start introducing additional classes/weapons/skins/ etc… Hey who knows, f2p may not have been the best way to go. I have no idea.

I understand SD probably hates being tied to their past games, but they must understand this is why they are even a company. You can also thank Rtcw, even though you guys did not make that game… most people think that you did :). You may want to make your own game that has no relevance to these past glorious games, and you are right you may make a damn good and successful game. But then again look at Id software, they made pc fps multiplayer games. They also wanted to divert from their old ways, this is why they made Rage a single player console game (didn’t work to well for them).

So again I am going to ask… Why would Rtcw 2 not be successful?? Why do we need to reinvent the wheel here? YOU ALREADY HAVE A FORMULA THAT WORKS. Look at CS GO, this is the same game that was made 12 years ago just with better gfx. Now some people may say well 1.6 has more ppl playing than cs go or source, but then again there are way more computers that can run cs 1.6 than computers that can run cs go.

Btw I am well aware due to legal issues you guys would not even be allowed to make Rtcw 2, to be perfectly honest this is not what I am asking for, I am asking for you to make a game that has the same formula that made Rtcw what it is. Maybe you could even take the best elements from all of your past titles, but then again… you would just be using everything from Rtcw sorry Rex.

Oh by the way, Rtcw was a success for public play and competitive play.[/QUOTE]

Couldnt agree more…nice write up