the current state of smgs

(Yoshimoto) #1

all the smgs are starting to feel almost the same to me. for example you should compare smg9 and kek10. almost exact same stats. the only smg that actually feels different is the blishcock, but it is slightly underpowered/less effective than the other smg’s that are almost the same. i really want the weapons to be unique, not just a slight tweak of another weapon that we already have. there should really be something done to set these weapons apart, after all, we have quite a few smg based/smg using classes, and since their weapon choice differs very little, it’s just becoming dull to see an smg you havent used before, only to find out that its almost the same.

(modernBlast) #2

The Hochfir is quite different in that it has a high rate of fire, but hits like a pea-shooter. That leaves the KEK, Croz, and SMG9 same-ish I guess. IMO all SMG have ridiculous range anyway and need a further nerf. I’m probably wrong though due to some game-balance issues and obscure unintended consequences; still its funny to “snipe” vasilli with the Hoch…

(CCP115) #3

Agreed, sometimes I just feel way too accurate with an SMG.

Like comeon, that shit is supposed to be close-mid range.

(Dawnlazy) #4

They might be accurate but they suffer from a lot of damage drop off from afar.

(Amerika) #5

SMG’s all have crazy damage dropoff so they are more of an annoyance as opposed to powerful when shot from range. And you have to ADS it which makes you vulnerable.

(Yoshimoto) #6

for me smg’s just feel kinda like weaker rifles. they dont have that true smg spray and pray and dont give a crap feel. im actually not even sure if thats a good or a bad thing actually

(MarsRover) #7

In the last fine tuning update there were some solid range numbers for KEK-10 and Timik - 18m and 29m respectively. So AR’s have >50% more range.

(AKULA) #8

Hochfir has 9 damage … when i first used it my reaction was …wtf. …why…you no die !!! it’s really like throwing bean bag at your enermy and you need more then 10 shots (20or more for rhino ) to kill people it’s absolutely ridiculous

(strawberryJacket) #9

SMG’s have pretty poor damage at range and assault rifles are already a lot stronger than smg’s, so what would you even nerf in them ? There is barely any weapon that can compete with m4, even at close range, so i simply cant see why you find smg’s to be too strong.

Also, the only smg that is actually strong would be kek, crotzni lost a bit of power with all those accuracy nerfs so its less relible, smg9 have annoying recoil patter so its quite hard to aim at times and hochfir require you to land at least few headshots in a duel to even have a chance (with that said, view kick when you are hit with it is pretty derpy, but thats suppose to get changed), i will even ignore blishlok beacuse its unreliable.

All in all, if i could pick m4 on every merc, i would, without a doubt at all.

(modernBlast) #10

I agree about what you said on the M4. I’d rather an M4 on Red-Eye even, outside of the 1 shotting MOA, most of the rifles seem gimp in this game. I’ve never seen anyone dominate using a Dreiss or BR16 after about 500 matches?

(watsyurdeal) #11

I will say that I notice the SMG 9 being better for longer distances, and I don’t have to tap fire it as much as I have to with the Crotzni.

The Hochfir still feels like a Machine Pistol dressed up as a primary, and the KEK is overhyped as hell. Blishok isn’t nearly as bad as people make it out to be but it could definitely get some love.

Also, guys…stop with the whole it’s supposed to be so and so…if anything I’d say the SMGs are the assault rifles of this game, they feel and behave the same with the only differences between them and the M4 being rate of fire and random recoil patterns.

But in terms of how they FEEL, same exact feel as the M4.

(izu) #12

Cant say anything about the KEK but:

SMG-9 is for good sustained damage over longer distances while still being good at cqc. It has an accuracy advantage over the Crotzni while doing the same amount of damage per bullet.
My preferred SMG for Nader. Very balanced, very accurate and still melts heads at close range.

Crotzni feels like its less accurate from the start and spread blooms out very quick. This makes it harder to hit headshots even at close range. Tap fire is advised. Damage per second is the highest of all the SMG’s.
I find this less disireable for offensive mercs because its of its poor accuracy.
Although, I really enjoy playing Sawbonez with a Crotzni to get some cheeky peek shots or when rushing in for a revive. The high damage is really helpful in these situations.

Hochfir is laser accurate. The lowest damage per bulllet but highest ROF of all the SMG’s.
This ties its damage per second with the SMG-9.
If you have quake aim, this gun is for you. Even if you just strafe over your oponents head while firing will get you a couple of headshots, and deal heavy damage. Damage will drop off sooner than the other SMG’s to balance out its accuracy.

They might not be K-121 vs. BR-16 different but each SMG fills a specific role without being too specialized.

Excuse any errors. I will look this over in the morning. :smile:

(spicyHarp) #13

Crotzni’s accuracy is barely any different compared to SMG-9.
One of the accuracy nerf was a 10% starting spread, which didn’t affect anything else. As we all know, the starting spread on most weapons are mininal, 10% barely affects the overall accuracy.
The other nerf was a 10% inceased bloom on every shot, which does make a difference, but not enough to make the weapon ineffective at range compared to SMG-9. You should ADS at ranges which it made a noticeable difference anyways.

For anyone interested in some offline wall testing, here’s the full guide (All credits goes to kAndyREW):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3hhQZ0914
Go to any map, spawn in as sawbones and set Crotzni as your secondary: set SGPawn SecondaryWeapons (A_SubMachineGun_04)

(Dawnlazy) #14

Smg9 leaves a noticeably tighter clump, it’s like comparing M4 with Timik. Crotzni spreads way more, especially from side to side, not to mention it reaches maximum cone of fire much faster than Smg9 where you only start to see bullets hitting too far off toward the end of the mag.

[spoiler]




[/spoiler]

Anyone can tell which is the Crotzni and which is the Smg9.

(spicyHarp) #15

Are you properly compensating the recoil? If so, do you have an exact point to return to as soon as the recoil kicks in? I doubt those tests were accurate.

Heres some of my tests:
[spoiler]
https://i.imgur.com/0xUSe1O.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8MUvi96.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pJQUMC8.jpg
[/spoiler]

Of course Crotzni will have a wider spread, due to higher RoF and the recent nerfs, but the spread itself won’t be the deal breaker. Most of the time it comes down to augments, and if you really dislike the extra recoil.

(modernBlast) #16

After a while the pattern become random though (unlike the M4). So once it becomes random no compensation can help you, only reduced spread.

(watsyurdeal) #17

[quote=“spicyHarp;89267”]
Of course Crotzni will have a wider spread, due to higher RoF and the recent nerfs, but the spread itself won’t be the deal breaker. Most of the time it comes down to augments, and if you really dislike the extra recoil.[/quote]

…you literally just said it

The Crotzni has increased bloom per shot and more starting bloom, coupled with a higher fire rate, makes the Crotzni a close range weapon, while the SMG9 is arugably better for longer ranges due to the slower rate of fire, tighter spread, and better starting accuracy.

In my mind, they are pretty balanced now, I can tell a distinct difference between them, so it really comes down to Augments. And for both Sawbonez and Nader…I gotta say I prefer the SMG 9, I like the augments that they come with and the better accuracy at longer distances makes getting headshots a lot easier.

(Bojangles) #18

I completely agree! I don’t get why seemingly everyone looks at DPS numbers and says “Blishlock sucks it’s lowest dps and too slow”. It’s not that slow, and it’s not that weak. The other SMGs feel to me like they take forever to kill somebody. I get such a massive chub from seeing enemies’ health bars lose a chunk of hp from each Blishlock bullet that connects.

HOWEVER it is ultimately a matter of preference for whatever SMG clicks with the user. Sure most of the SMGs don’t stand out as much as the Blishlock or the Hochfire does, but there’s no doubt that to some there’s a worlds difference between the SMG9 and Kek10.

(spicyHarp) #19

The wider spread does not make Crotzni a close range weapon, the spread is barely any different compared to SMG9 until long range, where you should ADS anyways to remove all spread.
And the extra starting spread is probably not going to change anything, ever. Unless you are trying to cross map hipfire on chapel, i can’t see the extra starting spread affect anyone’s performance.

(Szakalot) #20

doesn’t smg9 have terrible damage falloff?