The Classy Art Hole Weapon Balance Analysis

(Tanker_Ray) #1

Howdy people, THUNDA here.

While I’m still keeping hope that there would be ‘July Fine-Tuning’ update for sure after the Daily Classy Golden Case Event, let’s look how the weapon balance is affecting the game overall.

(Really, still looking forward for other merc balance at July Fine Tuning since merc - primaries are related very close to each other.)

  • Burst Rifle nerfs

To be honest, I was so disappointed that I just couldn’t feel much difference overall.

All two bursts’ DPS was dropped down to 130~ ish level, but supreme damage and range of it still firmly remains.

Stark’s sudden burst RoF was nerfed to pre-BR16 level which is 800RPM, and BR-16 got 720RPM which is same as Mounted MG, and Bush’s turret.

Remember Stark has 0.26 sec delay between the burst, and BR-16 has 0.217.

So when you click the first time, Stark’s 800RPM goes

first round (0.075 sec) second round (0.075 sec) third round (0.26 sec)…

BR-16’s new 720 RPM’s digit is 0.083333333333333… so I had quite hard time to calculate BR’s DPS(Just like old Stark with 857 RPM that doesn’t divided well enough) unlike the new Stark with 800RPM which clearly divides.

[b]

BR-16’s burst RPM was nerfed to 157 RPM from 164RPM, and its DPS was lowered to 133.45 from 139.4

Stark’s burst RPM was nerfed to 147 RPM from 150 RPM, and its DPS was lowered to 132.3 from 135[/b]

However, besides the 130+ DPS, the amount of damage you can pull-out in realistic situation is still so damn high.

29m range 17 x 3 = 51 dmg, 30m range 18 x 3 = 54 dmg.
[b]
If the DPS is similar or same, one which has higher dmg/range is much more powerful.

Think about why we feel Blishlok’s 120DPS is low, but NO ONE ever says Grandeur and PDP’s DPS is low.

Thus, Firepower still isn’t nerfed right.[/b]

Well fortunately, reload speed nerf just like KeK-10 got before was a huge thing.

Stark and BR got 2.2 sec reload speed which is same as Dreiss.

Still reloads fast with Drilled, but Dreiss level is really slow without Drilled.

Stark’s 0.1 sec difference, eh… not much difference but BR-16’s 0.2 sec difference is huge when you think about KeK-10’s 0.2 sec nerf.

KeK-10 now has 2 sec reload, the slowest reload time of all SMGs and even with Drilled, it has 1.6 sec reload time which is close to its PREVIOUS reload speed.

Reload speed nerf was very nice, but the mag size buff it got long ago wasn’t changed, and I think SD forgot how many fire support mercs use Drilled along with the bursts.

Especially B81 Arty and S95 Stoker. (Also B53 Skyhammer too.)

Well you won’t feel much difference with fire support mercs, but B93 BR-16 Fragger got the most nerf I would say.

S41 or S92 Stark THUNDA, meh. not much difference.

So overall, I think it needs more nerf right now. Superior damage/range output, and its fast bullet usage covered by fire support mercs, slow reload speed covered by Drilled augment, BR-16’s very low spread didn’t changed AT ALL.

Furthermore, I feel like I’m shooting way more accurate with bit slower RPM than spammy RoF before, because slow vurst RPM is actually helping me with that.

Try use S41 Arty that has Drilled + Focus, then you’ll taste the thing.

Good thing BR Fragger is suffering with Dreiss level slow reload speed, but still. They really deserve more nerf.

Still top-tier gun that crunch-munch all mercs/weapons nowadays. Sigh…

  • PDP-70.

PDP Red Eye/Vas is still my main Recon pick as always, with 1st gen P13 and Red Eye’s 2nd gen P55 Bronze/P42 Iron Card.

PDP always had the most effective dmg/shot which is able to one-shot all those annoying/flying female mercs except Nader, and head+body combo for all 110/120 HP male mercs.

also with extremely high RoF and enough mag size.

I’m still one of the few guys who are using this gun as main sniper rifle even after the numerous recoil nerfs it had(Asia server has very very few PDP users.), but seriously this nerf is very huge.

Only bad part of this gun was your bullet usage is super fast that made poor Red Eye without Spares(1st gen) looking for fire supports, begging for ammos, and this worst part of the gun was very heavily nerfed this time.

One thing you might miss is this nerf gave PDP +1 space for one mag (11/44 = four mags with Spare before, 9/45 = 5 mags now with Spares.)

Just like Felix’s 7 mag size buff gave it - 1 mag space. (6/18 before, 7/14 now.)

So eventhough you are fully supplied, you have to reload one more time than before.

But PDP has the worst reload time among all sniper rifles, so the synergy is really really bad.

This nerf was damn significant.

Gotta aim for the head for, but still best gun for killing those annoying female mercs.

Always try to ding those weak females with this gun. Over.

  • Ahnuld 12

After the min dmg 5 was nerfed long ago to stop far range Bullshxt shotgun kills, hmm…

I don’t think Ahnuld really deserved a nerf since Hollunds 880 has exactly same RoF with Ahnuld, and that gun is shooting 88 dmg you know.

I’m ok with shotguns nowadays, but if I were SD, I would rather nerf the 880’s RoF so that it will position right in the middle of Remburger and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

880’s single dmg is really damn high, and the thing shoots it with Ahnuld’s RoF.

Other than that, about overall shotgun balance, I would buff all shotgun’s mag size by +1 or +2, and drop their RoFs.

(Tanker_Ray) #2

- Pistols/Revolver Reworks and Tolen buff

Damn, this is the part I love the most.

I remember the old? thread that @ProfPlump wrote before, about increasing the revolver’s dmg and lower the RPM to make it real harder hitting, carefully shooting guns that I’ve agreed.

Still, M9 is best with its 15 mag size and lowest spread with 15dmg, but I gotta say this rework patch really upgraded the overall pistols that were faded by M9.

I can clearly see M9’s throne has came down a bit seriously.

But first, one thing you guys might miss is SD’s DPS balancing policy(?).

Just like Tolen’s DPS was increased to MP400/MP9 level which is around 114,

[b]These reworked pistols all have 110~ 113 level DPS.

[/b]

Quite clever that SD really controlled their dmg/shot very well.

I am seeing some people whining, or longing about the good-old super fast firing D-Eagle that had 120 DPS,

S/W having 135 DPS so that you can spam the whole 6 rounds when shooting enemies right in front of you,

but I gotta say increase of the dmg really helped those revolver’s realistic fire power.

I mean, D-eagle’s wrist breaking 360 RPM full-auto shots, I can handle that

but when can you even shoot Simeon or S/W with previous RoF.

May be some of you might be sad that super close range spam strats are no longer able,

but this dmg buff is insane that revolvers are actually useful at anytime!

Also, Selbsadt .40 which had not much difference compared to M9 is now very distinguishable.

19m range with 17dmg, lowered RPM = much powerful than M9 that has only 14m range with 15 dmg.

This pistol is best long range pistol after the patch!

Really love how powerful the revolvers are,(Especially when you land headshots. OH MY GOODNESS THE DAMAGE) but just one thing I felt sad about was the Caulden and Deagle’s gun sound.

I mean, I’m not saying Caulden is bad like before, but it really didn’t changed afterall. Least changed pistol you know.

I think 9 rounds rather than 8 is all it needs right now, since it is finally positioning in between huge caliber revolvers and pistols, just like the old D. Eagle was. (20dmg. middle of those two.)

AND about Desert Eagle.

Seriously, SD when will you change this damn gun sound.

It’s not even silenced and this huge magnum pistol shoots 26dmg round!!!

MAKE THE SOUND POWERFULLLLLLLLL

About the Tolen MP, it was also a poor cute little MP that was considered worse than MP400/MP9 bros.

RoF buff isn’t THAT much, but 750 RPM with 9 dmg with longest 15m range and 30 enough mag will make it much more viable than before, eventhough it still has that longest 1.8sec reload time.

Very cute but strong enough nowdays.

Used it with P21 Vassili, and this thing is so cute.

- Melee weapon’s heavy attack.

Probably even larger weapon balance update than tri burst nerf to all melee users, PHANTOM, and kiratana users.

Dayum, Phantom finally got his old glory back.

Weak melee attack used to hit all 180 degree screen before,(I’m not sure about the heavy attacks. Motion is stabbing, not slashing.)

so this might be one more nerf to Quick Slash Beckhill Proxies, but I still think 140 is fair and super wide enough.

Congratz for all Phantoms that failed to stab female mercs for one-shotting them, while I’m still waiting for MK.46 buff… Damn it…

Chopper augment only helps you to one shot Phoenix nowadays unless Vassili gets back his 100 HP, so Quick Slash katana is going to be even better than before. Shorter delay = much more stability!

2nd gen C64 Phantom all the way!

(deftMoon) #3

feel like im reading the bible or a dictionary

(hoyes) #4

Overall the balance changes in this patch I approve of. I think a good nerf to the burst rifles would be to reduce their mag count to what it was before, so you have to time your shots better otherwise your hit with a longish reload,which IMO should be increase a tad more (0.1 secs). This would make them a bit less spammy and more skill based. MK.46…damn SD. ik the concs are strong but can you at least accept that even if you buff its dmg it would still be worse than the stark. I don’t get why they are hesitant to do this. Even the K121.

(frostyvampire) #5

2*0.8 = 1.6 seconds.
Drilled makes you reload 20% faster not 10%

To be honest I really seem to notice the slower fire rate of burst rifles. I unboxed a cobalt S82 Arty (yes idk how but I got a cobalt out of a normal case) but I tested it and I really notice the slower fire rate so I still use my D81 and I will just use the S82 to craft a new cobalt for a different merc when the prices get balanced

About PDP I think SD needs to increase it’s clip size to 12 and make you spawn with 2 or 2.5 clips (so your starting ammo is 12/24 or 12/30 idk if 2.5 is needed that much) and maybe slightly decrease the recoil BUT decrease the damage to something like 36, removing the ability to 1 shot mercs but 2 headshots will still kill most mercs and head + body will kill low hp mercs

As for melee Phantom, don’t forget that you can also 1 right click + 1 left click Thunder with Chopper, without it you need to hit him 3 times but I still agree that Quick Slash is better for Phantom. I don’t craft a cobalt Phantom just because the risk of not getting a QS loadout

And last but not least, I also wait for the MK46 buff :c

(Tanker_Ray) #6

@FrostyVampire

OOPS! edited right now.

the problem with the burst is its single shot dmg being WAY too high.

Stark and BR now has MK.46’s DPS, but you have to remember this :

- If gun A and B’s DPS is same, gun with higher dmg is much more powerful than gun that has low dmg per bullet.

Tribursts’ main balance breaking part is it kills female mercs so easily and furthermore, those two are still able to insta-kill, or knock down Phoenix with just two or three bursts.

Those two are the main reason why 100HP and 110HP’s gap is so damn wide.

and bursting two or three times still doesn’t take THAT much time to do.

Unless those two’s burst RPM rolls back to CW update time.

About the PDP, I think the nerf was right.

PDP has the slowest reload among all guns except machine guns (2.8sec), and now has very low capacity so that it whether requires you to use

  • Drilled to reload fast enough and spray 9 more bullets

  • Or use Spares augment for saving/carrying enough bullets.

About its 45 dmg, it really is the best gun to kill female mercs that has 80/90hp overall except Nader.

I’m good with this gun, so I use it to punish those god damn pro Proxies all the time.

But lower dmg than Grandeur? hmm.

Unless PDP gets super fast RPM and large capacity like before, no.

Insta kills are not a good part in this game, yes, but how are you going to deal with Grandeur’s 40 dmg when it is also able to one shot Aura and Sparks.

insta killing whole guys under Fragger with MOA is still quite OP, but at least PDP has to remain as best female killing machine is my opinion.

Because shooting those rapid bunny’s head with PDP is bit harder than headshotting Fragger with MOA.

I would rather see PDP’s RPM nerf to prevent double body shotting female mercs, but increase of capacity to previous 11.

Katana’s Chopper augment’s purpose was always against 100HP merc’s’(Because Vas isn’t 100 anymore.)

Yeah I do know THUNDA is able to die with Chopper stab and slash.

But Quick Slash is better unless Vassili gets his HP back.

Not only about that, but Quick slash does shortens melee weapon’s delay a lot.

If SD refuse to buff that crap and explaining the reason ‘we aren’t buffing this thing because conc is helping you shit tons of times. Just depend on the OP conc but be weak if you fail to conc the enemies’

I will be FXCKING PISSED.

(frostyvampire) #7

@THUNDA

The PDP still doesn’t require much skill compared to how effective it is. Unless bolt actions get a buff to headshot damage so they can not only insta kill low hp mercs but also insta gib them, I feel like the PDP shouldn’t be able to 1 shot any merc.

I see how the nerf reduces the spam but yet it’s still a low skill but really effective weapon. Those 2 shouldn’t match together, low skill should be less effective than a high skill weapon (Hochfir is less effective than Timik for example because it’s a lot easier to use). So PDP should be way less effective than bolt actions

I play on EU servers so I’ve never seen you. But I know that I hate seeing PDP players. The high damage, low risk and no punishment for missing is really annoying.

About Grandeur, they can always reduce it’s damage. Every changing it to 39 will remove the ability to 1 shot Aura and Sparks but they should only do it if they give Grandeur an actual sight. Why can’t they just look at AUG’s sight from CSGO and do the same thing for Grandeur in DB?

[quote=“THUNDA;195720”]Katana’s Chopper augment’s purpose was always against 100HP merc’s’(Because Vas isn’t 100 anymore.)

Yeah I do know THUNDA is able to die with Chopper stab and slash.

But Quick Slash is better unless Vassili gets his HP back.

Not only about that, but Quick slash does shortens melee weapon’s delay a lot.
[/quote]

I know it, just wanted to add it as a fact. So people can kill you (because your name is Thunda :tongue: ) faster. I myself use a Quick Slash Phantom, I wanna make a cobalt for him but I’m afraid to get a bad card. Only 2 of his cards have Quick Slash on them. And not only that but there’s also the 1/3 chance risk of getting a Cricket Bat loadout which is even worse than just not getting a QS card

(Tanker_Ray) #8

@FrostyVampire

As someone who has 4.2kills/min with PDP, agreed.

I think the reason why Grandeur’s Aura/Sparks insta kill hasn’t a big issue is because its got horrible ironsight unlike PDP’s awesome Felix scope, and Grandeur actually sxcks ass when shooting 90HP merc.

But I gotta say PDP’s main problem is its lack of penalty when missing just like you mentioned, not a gun being 90HP killer. Bolt actions aren’t good at shooting female mercs already. MOA is mainly focused on insta killing guys under Fragger.

‘no punishment for missing is really annoying.’ Exactly this part.

It actually needs quite a shot to kill male mercs without headshots though.

2nd gen Phantom’s both buffed Shooting/Slashing = C64 master race baby.

But I really do recommend you to use CR54 if possible. That loadout is just blessed by SD if you don’t consider his melee important, since katana is still the best knife in this game as its sensitivity is removed.

Damn it, how could they give phantom a Unshakable + Drilled + Spares with Crotzni, the Ultimate Gunner loadout.

Makes me sad whenever I use MA42 with THUNDA. Even the Tough was buffed, Unshakable is best solid tank augment…

(frostyvampire) #9

[quote=“THUNDA;195725”]
But I really do recommend you to use CR54 if possible. That loadout is just blessed by SD if you don’t consider his melee important, since katana is still the best knife in this game as its sensitivity is removed.[/quote]

Wait Phantom can use a gun?
JK lol, but when I play Phantom, I play for fun. I use only Katana and switch to my gun only in rare occasions. I actually think Phantom needs to be more like Spy from tf2. So he can cloak whenever he wants but his only weapons will be Katana and a revolver.
EMP field should become a separate ability, this will be his Sapper
His cloak will be, well the invis watch (rework the cloak so it works more like Spy’s cloak)
Katana is the knife (SD add backstabs already, right click melee from behind should result in an instant kill, or at LEAST add backstab ability to Chopper)
His revolver will act like Spy’s revolver :sweat_smile:
And also he should have the speed of 90hp mercs while uncloaked and 110hp mercs while cloaked and lower his health to 100

Wait why did this conversation turn into talking about Phantom?

I have 2x suspect MA42 and I always used it until I unboxed a cobalt T45 from a normal case. I still feel like MA42 is the best Thunder because of the augments though, I feel really weak without my Tough but cobalt is a cobalt and I must use it just because the swag. But I still want MK46 to get buffed, if it happens I’ll craft a bunch of cobalt Thunders until I get MA42

(BananaSlug) #10

m9 isnt best, the w&s is now ridiculous!