Terrain Blending Article based on q3map 2.5.16


(sock) #1

After a lot of writing and constant proof reading the Terrain Blending article is finished. It started life as a small collection of ideas and suggestions, but some how turned into a 7 page monster! The article does contain a lot of technical jargon but hopefully its presented in a nice and easily understandable format.

Example map for Q3 engines
Source files
Terrain Blending Article

The example map and terrain blending article are based on the latest version of q3map2 (2.5.16) from Shaderlab

Please note: The latest version of q3map2 (2.5.16) works differently to the previous version. (2.5.15) The order in which the alpha value for a vertex point is changed is DotProduct2 first and then Alpha Fade Brushes second. This allows the terrain to be blended first with the DotProduct2 system and then fine tuned afterwards with the Alpha Fade Brushes.

Sock
:moo:


(Shaderman) #2

Great! Thanks a lot for your work sock! Btw I saw the pom screenshots and was really speechless. I’ll reinstall Q3 with pom and try to learn from the master of brushes and shaders :smiley:

/me starts reading


(thegnat) #3

Great and very detailed tutorial!
Also your PSP and PSD files are really helpful to learn and improve texture creation.
Thanks a lot! :chef:


(The Wanderer) #4

the map looks unbelivable. I am totally speechless.
Can you please post this same thread on the level editing forum too. Not that many mappers visit this forum (unfortunately) and I’d hate for anyone too miss this.


(Loffy) #5

hallo!
A good tutorial indeed.
I managed to produce this (based on sockter_test8):


Thanks Sock!
// Loffy


(Lil Killa) #6

I’ve been waiting for this article. Should be quite helpful :smiley:


(ratty redemption) #7

@sock, sounds very cool, and Ill read this soon and see if I can learn anything... that is after Ive recovered from the eye surgery I had yesterday… which if anyone is interested, was to remove a bad cataract in my right eye, and tne op was a success :slight_smile: …although Im seeing in double vision atm if I dont wear my eye patch, yeah I look even more mean then usual, lol :wink: …but soon I`ll have proper use of both my eyes again for the first time in years :smiley:


(ratty redemption) #8

@sock, although Im not ment to read much atm I couldnt wait so have just read through your excellent article, and knowing how mentally demanding and time consuming they are to make, my respect for you is great :slight_smile:

not only in your skilful use of the technology, but equally your easy to follow presentation of the article.

something I realized I dont have the time or patience to do properly with my own attempts at writing articles in the past, hence me handing my rough tutorial notes over to wolfwings a while ago, to help with the article he is writing... hes also following the source file development gerbil and I are going through with the terrain we`re making for gerbils et maps, so hopefully, there will eventually be another article released to help inspire the mapping community.

back to your article, as well as your technical notes better helping me understand the technology I`ve been working with, I also thought it was interesting to see your alpha fade brushes placed in radiant as ‘fence poles’ in the ground.

as opposed to more fiddly sheered brushes I use… I imagine though that you can end up with tons of the poles, have you noticed them slowing down radiant`s window refresh? …if not I might switch to your method as I guess they are quicker to place then my method.

also kudos to you for releasing your source files, and I agree with the statement you made about commercial teams not using art assets released freely onto the web, without prior permission from the original authors, again I appreciate this more now I`m spending more time making my own textures.

and finally I`d like to say the development work of everyone on this and similar forums, is definitely helping keep this engine alive imo, and personally I intend to keep working with q3 engine games for the foreseeable future :slight_smile:


(sock) #9

The Wanderer: The thread is duplicated.

thegnat: Yeah a massive download but hopefully it will be useful to someone.

Loffy: Look forward to seeing more. I would recommend thou using a different rock for the floors to the walls.

ratty: I hope your eyes get better, mapping with impaired vision cannot be easy, especially with the long hours that is required.

Originally I used nicely cut alpha fade brushes in my map, but after a while I could not see what was going on due to all the overlapping brushwork everywhere. Then I experimented with excessive use of the alpha fade brushes and ended up with very un-natural looking terrain. You can still see the results of my excessive alpha fade brushwork in the canyon area of my example map. The best solution I found was to use very few alpha brushes and only when the blends needed them.

One thing I did find useful when viewing alot of alpha fade brushwork at once in the editor, was to use the region function. It is much easier to work with smaller sections of the map than the whole thing at once. I also used the farplane clipping tool in the editor as well.

The alpha brush “poles” idea was so that I could see the edge of the terrains easier and the angle of the paths. I spoke to ydnar on several occasions about if there was any overhead for using this method and he said no. Plus it is very quick and easy way for creating blends and moving paths/borders around.

If you have been using Alpha fade/Dotproduct2 already, your current map will look different with the new compiler. It much easier now to predict what is going to happen with the terrain but it does require a different approach to layout.

Sock
:moo:


(ratty redemption) #10

off topic stuff:

ratty: I hope your eyes get better, mapping with impaired vision cannot be easy, especially with the long hours that is required.

thanks sock and since I`ve lived with a cataract (a clouded, opaque lens) in one eye for several years, I got pretty used to it so kept putting off the op to get it fixed.

but what was more alarming was recently I started loosing vision in both eyes in the form of sporadic blurring of my vision, some days it was so bad I couldn`t read or work at all, other days it was perfectly fine and I could work for 12 hours or more with no problems.

after a few tests we found this was being caused by a vitamin a deficiency, which was apparently easy to cure, I`d just have to eat a few carrots every day... and somewhat surprising this does work very well, so luckily I didn`t need any prescribed medicine or even high does vitamin tablets, both of which would of come with their own risks.

anyway, after that little scare, I decided to finally get the cataract fixed and already their is some improvement, so with the blurring cleared up as well, all is working out well for me it seems ...it also has made me really appreciate the days when I could work, or game even more then before :)

sorry all that is very off topic ...however if anyone else here can one day benefit from what I went through, then I hope it was worth me mentioning, but I`ll get back on topic now, before I sound too narcissistic.

on topic stuff:

Originally I used nicely cut alpha fade brushes in my map, but after a while I could not see what was going on due to all the overlapping brushwork everywhere. Then I experimented with excessive use of the alpha fade brushes and ended up with very un-natural looking terrain. You can still see the results of my excessive alpha fade brushwork in the canyon area of my example map. The best solution I found was to use very few alpha brushes and only when the blends needed them.

that does make sense, and I have too noticed my radiant windows getting more cluttered since using alpha volume blending, but the results can be worth it so I`m not complaining, just like yourself, trying to find the best uses for it and not get too carried away, similar to my use of shader stages ...at first it was tempting to pile on as many effects as I could find, but I`m trying to optimize my maps more and if I can make a tex which saves on shaders then I`m trying that route atm, although I hope I don`t abuse that engine resource either.

One thing I did find useful when viewing a lot of alpha fade brushwork at once in the editor, was to use the region function. It is much easier to work with smaller sections of the map than the whole thing at once. I also used the farplane clipping tool in the editor as well.

I too use the region function a lot, for example, to select say the alpha volume brushes and perhaps a just few brushes either side of a blend, I find it makes the work much easier to see from different angles in radiant`s 3d window, as well as editing the brushes around without tons of other parts of the map obscuring what I`m working on, plus it helps radiant`s screen refresh.

I`m not familiar with the farplane clipping tool, do you mean the 'cubic clipping' or is this some new feature to radiant? I`m using the 138 et version for both et and ja which I recently started mapping with the latter.

The alpha brush “poles” idea was so that I could see the edge of the terrains easier and the angle of the paths. I spoke to ydnar on several occasions about if there was any overhead for using this method and he said no. Plus it is very quick and easy way for creating blends and moving paths/borders around.

understood and I will definitely try your method :)

If you have been using Alpha fade/Dotproduct2 already, your current map will look different with the new compiler. It much easier now to predict what is going to happen with the terrain but it does require a different approach to layout.

I`ve personally been doing a ton of work with both of those, and have now updated the q3map2 dev build link in my forum sig and dl q3map 2.5.16 although I haven`t done any mapping since my op, but next time I do I`ll see if I can tell the difference caused by the reordering of the blending functions, and hopefully won`t have too much difficulty updating my map files.

can I ask how you heard ydnar was going to do this? ...I know he spends less time in this forum now, but is he going to carry on updating his dev thread at the top of this forum? ...I`m not complaining as long as someone posts the updated info in here, as I don`t really want to start hanging out in another forum.

and do you think ydnar will keep the ordering this way now, or is this just a test? ...I don`t mind either way, just curious :)

ratty


(G0-Gerbil) #11

Sock - fantastic work and once again shows the difference between pro mappers and us lot :slight_smile:
Hope to come close some day!

Anyway, my only problem is bloody fileplanet - I always bitch because I’m sick of signing up for stuff like this, but surely a guy like yourself has alternatives?
There’s a mirror for the map but not the source - how about pcgamemods? :slight_smile:

Cheers for your efforts though, looking forward to seeing what Ratty comes up with now, even if I’m going to be Scrooge-like with his polygon count!


(ratty redemption) #12

yeah I 2nd that about using pcgamemods.com for a mirror if you can.

and I`m back mapping again, although slowly, and the new q3map2 seems fine with my existing dotproduct2, alpha volume blending :slight_smile:


(sock) #13

That really is a cool comment, I love eating carrots and I was always told to eat them as a kid. Just goes to prove carrots are good for your eyes! :slight_smile:

No its me being an idiot and not know the correct name for the tool. Farplane clipping is like you said, cubic clipping. The proper name for the tool always sounded stupid to me.

I was working with terrain blends back in June and found the system very hard to work with. The original order was Alpha Fade Brush first and then Vertex Normal. This seemed backwards to me bec. u create the vertex normal first and then add the alpha brush. So I asked ydnar if he change it in the dev build bec I wanted to test it the other way. I got much better results and found I could exactly predict what to tweak and change in the terrain. I produced the test map to show what it could look like the other way and it sort of stuck.

Well I hope so, but if not at least provide a switch so people can choose which way they want the blending system to work.

Wow I am surprised at that comment, thank you very much. :slight_smile:

I always sign in to FP with qmap@qmap, password qmap. There are alot of generic logins that various site provide to get round it. I know its not what FP wants but they are stupid with all this login crap. Unfortunately I have very little web resources and really depend on PQ for my site. If someone wants to mirror the source zips on pcgamemods I dont mind as long as the zip files remain intact and are not broken down in anyway.

Sock
:moo:


(G0-Gerbil) #14

Used the logins, grabbing and probably tomorrow I’ll be drooling :slight_smile:
Almost a shame it’ll be Ratty doing this kinda stuff in our maps!


(obsidian) #15

Nice work as always. I loved the map, been playing it for the past week and a bit (since you posted it at Q3W). While downloading the map, the map name p-o-m looked like p-o-r-n, LOL. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve been fiddling around with the same technology recently so it’ll be interesting to see what kind of different techniques that you’ve been using from my own.


(sock) #16

Source File : http://www.pcgamemods.com/8048/
Terrain example for article : http://www.pcgamemods.com/8049/
Photoshop/Paintshop source files : http://www.pcgamemods.com/8054/

All links done by thegnat, thank you for the time. :beer:

Sock
:moo:


(skinNCNmaster) #17

also might try mirroring at infosprite


(Fracman) #18

sock:
in German we say: “Es haut mich von den Socken” (means: awesome!) :smiley:
The screenshots are simply unbelievable… mapping at its best :slight_smile:
Your tutorial is not that large, compared to Rattys waterfall one,
but pretty much condensed… it will take me a while to digest :wink:

thx for the mirroring :slight_smile:

One question though:
i did not really understand the step from page 4 (with just one terrain shader on the surface)
to the page 5 (with several terrain shaders on the same surface).
How did you ad them? What is the boundary?
Did you add “crackles” to the brush to have separate surfaces?
I’ll have to look at the maps, but there it is all finished already.

For such a good tutorial it would be very nice to have also
separate .map files as reference for each (important) step of the procedures,
so the readers can compare their own work with each step.

thx
Fracman


(nUllSkillZ) #19

There’s a DL hidden in the article (Page 4 first paragraph):
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/simland/terrain1.zip

It contains several map-files (haven’t had a look so far).

Edit:

Oops!
This example file is also mentioned at the beginning of the article.


(Fracman) #20

PERFECT! This is it, thanks!!! :smiley: