[quote=“Eox;189854”]Anyway, since you are level 30 and you complain about stacking, why don’t you go on a server with level restrictions (min 10 or min 20) ?[/quote]If there were more of them with < 150ms ping (preferably US East) that weren’t empty (or full), I would. I see a min level 10 server pop up in the browser maybe once a week.
team "balance" is crap and the main reason I don't play Dirty Bomb more
PlatinumCLAW
(PlatinumCLAW)
#23
[quote=“opicr0n;189874”][quote=“PlatinumCLAW;189873”]There is no actual way to calculate the skill of a person, the current system takes the player performance from the past matches (i guess i saw this somewhere) to set the teams.
Now the performance of every individual varies with mood, opposing team, computer configuration(fps) and other factors such as ping etc. So the point here is, The skill of an individual cannot be efficiently calculated. if you want to prove that wrong, just give an algorithm (idea) of how the skill can be calculated.
Otherwise, levels are the way to go. It also “looks” more appealing.[/quote]
I disagree, to name one thing the OVERALL xp per minute could already be an indicator for your level. This is a much better indication of your level alone.
The OVERALL xp per minute is much more organic because it changes with the skill of the comunity. [/quote]
Changes with merc, medic xp per minute is very high vs other mercs which may have lower xp grind.
AnimeDude
(AnimeDude)
#24
Players over level 30 worth crazy K/Ds were probably good to begin with. It is still a shooter and can do well with basic FPS skills. Besides, these are casual matches, you should always expect a high level or two. But that doesn’t mean teams shouls be balanced so that the levels average out to the same number on both sides.
AlphaUT
(AlphaUT)
#25
[quote=“LouCypher;189878”][quote=“Eox;189854”]Anyway, since you are level 30 and you complain about stacking, why don’t you go on a server with level restrictions (min 10 or min 20) ?[/quote]If there were more of them with < 150ms ping (preferably US East) that weren’t empty (or full), I would. I see a min level 10 server pop up in the browser maybe once a week.
[/quote]
Yet I see min 10 servers everyday, and I am talking about US east, west, EU servers
Black2
(Black)
#26
[quote=“Dawnrazor;189833”]But levels really don’t matter, the experience that they poorly represent does but only in the sense of newbies being at a disadvantage only because they don’t know how to play yet. This is a game that touts itself as “hard to learn, impossible to master” or something like that, when I started out I too was getting my @$!# slapped, playing pubs and trying to grasp what was going on, I didn’t really expect to win, only to learn so that then I could start mimicking what the others were doing, improve and then start winning. The only thing that visible levels do is to give people a scapegoat for complaining about balance instead of taking a loss and striving to improve.
I’m pretty sick of my level (110 as of writing) being commented EVERY SINGLE MATCH, it feels stupid even in min level 10 servers. My weapons don’t do more damage because of my level, if I win or lose a fight against someone else it’s simply because one of us got outshot/outsmarted by the other one, end of.
Some of the best players I’ve seen in Dirty Bomb were kicking major ass even before level 20, and I’ve seen people past level 50 who are an absolute abortion at this game (heck I was complete garbage until level 60 or so and even now I still have a lot to learn).[/quote]
Sigh.
I got a question; “How do I get better at playing basketball?”
Uhhh let me think…Hmmmm. Oh yea that’s right, PRACTICE and EXPEREINCE!
I don’t get better or skillful at something if I don’t experience and practice it. Level represents the experience one has had with a game which strongly correlates to skill.
I don’t want to have to say this again…
Amerika
(Amerika)
#27
[quote=“Black;189898”][quote=“Dawnrazor;189833”]But levels really don’t matter, the experience that they poorly represent does but only in the sense of newbies being at a disadvantage only because they don’t know how to play yet. This is a game that touts itself as “hard to learn, impossible to master” or something like that, when I started out I too was getting my @$!# slapped, playing pubs and trying to grasp what was going on, I didn’t really expect to win, only to learn so that then I could start mimicking what the others were doing, improve and then start winning. The only thing that visible levels do is to give people a scapegoat for complaining about balance instead of taking a loss and striving to improve.
I’m pretty sick of my level (110 as of writing) being commented EVERY SINGLE MATCH, it feels stupid even in min level 10 servers. My weapons don’t do more damage because of my level, if I win or lose a fight against someone else it’s simply because one of us got outshot/outsmarted by the other one, end of.
Some of the best players I’ve seen in Dirty Bomb were kicking major ass even before level 20, and I’ve seen people past level 50 who are an absolute abortion at this game (heck I was complete garbage until level 60 or so and even now I still have a lot to learn).[/quote]
Sigh.
I got a question; “How do I get better at playing basketball?”
Uhhh let me think…Hmmmm. Oh yea that’s right, PRACTICE and EXPEREINCE!
I don’t get better or skillful at something if I don’t experience and practice it. Level represents the experience one has had with a game which strongly correlates to skill.
I don’t want to have to say this again…[/quote]
Practice and experience gets you to a certain level. Then you hit a ceiling and your skill gain rate plateaus. I have way more hours and experience than a college freshman d1 basketball player but I am nowhere near as good as most of them despite my years of practice and experience advantage.
Humans don’t learn linearly over time spent practicing and keep getting consistently better at the same rate. Or do you disagree with this? And this isn’t even considering a person’s mentality when they go to play a game like DB in regards to how you treat your time playing. Are you playing a game to pass time or are you playing to get better? Both will level up at nearly the same rate but one will most likely, but not always, be better than the other. There are a lot of environmental and psychological factors to consider.
This is all moot though because the queue system will be pulling from the entire player base and trying to make properly balanced match from that player base. As opposed to the current system that can only balance matches based on the players currently on the server…which can be impossible with a mixture of brand new players and vets. MMR will dictate your experience now instead of who randomly gets placed or joins a server. I’m OK with that.
Orivar
(Orivar)
#29
They need to force people that are under level 5 to play in max 5 servers. If they want to play with a friend, the casual matchmaking thing will make it that they can play together.
This game need max 10 servers as well. I see so many level 9s and 10s that doesnt know how to revive, throw ammo and plant c4.
The matchmaking system need to priorities the servers for your level. I am level 30 too so if I want to play a game I will get to min 20 servers mostly (if it has more then 6 people in the server) and so on…
The server browser need to stay.
Ardez1
(Ardez1)
#30
[quote=“AnotherGuy;189920”]They need to force people that are under level 5 to play in max 5 servers. If they want to play with a friend, the casual matchmaking thing will make it that they can play together.
This game need max 10 servers as well. I see so many level 9s and 10s that doesnt know how to revive, throw ammo and plant c4.
The matchmaking system need to priorities the servers for your level. I am level 30 too so if I want to play a game I will get to min 20 servers mostly (if it has more then 6 people in the server) and so on…
The server browser need to stay.[/quote]
Yes, let’s divide the player base every 5-10 levels because others are below my standards and I have no desire to address the problem besides making sure they aren’t playing with me.
Pro strats.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#31
Uggggggggggggggggh
Just add a way for people to rent servers, or create their own so we can have communities. Give us Dev Kits Splash Damage, you’ve done it in the past and there is no reason you can’t now or later on in the future.
What people seem to be wanting here, based on what I read, is for players to be match based on their raw skill (so average K/D, accuracy, different types of xp per min, etc) overall experience playing the game, win/loss ratio, and be matched together based on that.
Or in other words RANKED GUYS FFS, WE’RE BASICALLY BECOMING A CONSOLE GAME.
B_Montiel
(B_Montiel)
#32
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;189872”]Ironically enough, I never notice levels anymore. I just notice the abudunce of Recon and Engineers, and no Medic, or no Assaults. Or said Recons and Engineers not doing their jobs.
In other words, I notice morons, and those of you who aren’t, I follow you everywhere. You are my bro, let’s get some bro @$!# done bro.[/quote]
Accidentally, you just mentioned one of the biggest balance problem we currently face. What people play. To me, and this will not be improved by casual matchmaking or whatever system until they take it into account, balance issues comes mostly from scramble which does not consider merc selection. I’d really be interested in seeing the scramble happen AFTER the merc selection is finished and mostly share Medic/engineer between each team prior to the “pub elo”.
And all this level madness is pointless in this respect. Experienced players generally take an appropriate merc for the situation or have some strategies in mind. And this generally makes the biggest difference over level 30.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#33
[quote=“B. Montiel;189929”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;189872”]Ironically enough, I never notice levels anymore. I just notice the abudunce of Recon and Engineers, and no Medic, or no Assaults. Or said Recons and Engineers not doing their jobs.
In other words, I notice morons, and those of you who aren’t, I follow you everywhere. You are my bro, let’s get some bro @$!# done bro.[/quote]
Accidentally, you just mentioned one of the biggest balance problem we currently face. What people play. To me, and this will not be improved by casual matchmaking or whatever system until they take it into account, balance issues comes mostly from scramble which does not consider merc selection. I’d really be interested in seeing the scramble happen AFTER the merc selection is finished and mostly share Medic/engineer between each team prior to the “pub elo”.
And all this level madness is pointless in this respect. Experienced players generally take an appropriate merc for the situation or have some strategies in mind. And this generally makes the biggest difference over level 30.[/quote]
Pretty much, which is why I do not understand what Splash Damage is trying to do here.
In makes so much more sense for Matchmaking, or Ranked, to have a set limit on how many of each merc you can have. Comp already works this way, so why not just do the same thing here? No squads, all mercs are available to you at any given time. This way, merc and team composition is no longer a problem.
Pub Play and Matchmaking should be two separate things, Pub play should be the place I can go to just get into a game and have fun. Not sit there and stress about everything because my team isn’t doing their part.
Black2
(Black)
#34
[quote=“Amerika;189915”][quote=“Black;189898”][quote=“Dawnrazor;189833”]But levels really don’t matter, the experience that they poorly represent does but only in the sense of newbies being at a disadvantage only because they don’t know how to play yet. This is a game that touts itself as “hard to learn, impossible to master” or something like that, when I started out I too was getting my @$!# slapped, playing pubs and trying to grasp what was going on, I didn’t really expect to win, only to learn so that then I could start mimicking what the others were doing, improve and then start winning. The only thing that visible levels do is to give people a scapegoat for complaining about balance instead of taking a loss and striving to improve.
I’m pretty sick of my level (110 as of writing) being commented EVERY SINGLE MATCH, it feels stupid even in min level 10 servers. My weapons don’t do more damage because of my level, if I win or lose a fight against someone else it’s simply because one of us got outshot/outsmarted by the other one, end of.
Some of the best players I’ve seen in Dirty Bomb were kicking major ass even before level 20, and I’ve seen people past level 50 who are an absolute abortion at this game (heck I was complete garbage until level 60 or so and even now I still have a lot to learn).[/quote]
Sigh.
I got a question; “How do I get better at playing basketball?”
Uhhh let me think…Hmmmm. Oh yea that’s right, PRACTICE and EXPEREINCE!
I don’t get better or skillful at something if I don’t experience and practice it. Level represents the experience one has had with a game which strongly correlates to skill.
I don’t want to have to say this again…[/quote]
Practice and experience gets you to a certain level. Then you hit a ceiling and your skill gain rate plateaus. I have way more hours and experience than a college freshman d1 basketball player but I am nowhere near as good as most of them despite my years of practice and experience advantage.
Humans don’t learn linearly over time spent practicing and keep getting consistently better at the same rate. Or do you disagree with this? And this isn’t even considering a person’s mentality when they go to play a game like DB in regards to how you treat your time playing. Are you playing a game to pass time or are you playing to get better? Both will level up at nearly the same rate but one will most likely, but not always, be better than the other. There are a lot of environmental and psychological factors to consider.
This is all moot though because the queue system will be pulling from the entire player base and trying to make properly balanced match from that player base. As opposed to the current system that can only balance matches based on the players currently on the server…which can be impossible with a mixture of brand new players and vets. MMR will dictate your experience now instead of who randomly gets placed or joins a server. I’m OK with that.[/quote]
This is very true. There is learning curve in which players learn and increase skill exponentially. After that curve yes you do start to plateau skill wise.
Everyone is different however I’m not talking specifics here, I’m talking average. For example, I’m sure somebody who is level 100 (who hasn’t boosted) has way past their learning curve and fully understands the game.
But honestly like you said, this probably won’t matter when we get match queuing. I’m curious to see how this plays out.
MethodOwn
(MethodOwn)
#36
8v8 and I’m the only player on my team above level 7, against a stacked team with only one player below level 7. Nobody left or joined between map change, this is what Dirty Bomb “balance” code gives me all the time. It isn’t even the worst example, just the most recent.
If “levels don’t matter” then tell me why I can predict the outcome of these matches 100% of the time.
Amerika
(Amerika)
#37
@LouCypher When people say that levels don’t matter they are always talking about how once you reach a certain level it doesn’t matter. A level 10 could be better than a level 80. This has been stated many times on this forum.
If you get to be level 80 but are constantly put against players who are only 30 or 40 but they are 5x as good as you are and you’re supposed to carry, how do you think you’re going to feel about the game then? I bet you won’t take the same stance with you being punished as a “high level player” even though in reality you might just be mediocre at best. You will get stomped every single game with that type of system. That’s why it’s not a factor once you’ve hit quite a few hours in (and if you’re nearing 10 you have a lot of hours in the game).
You know that game that tons of people have been playing recently that is on all the gaming news sites and is a media darling? Guess how they do their matchmaking. It’s not by player level. It’s by skill rating. Virtually every game out there matches people by skill and not by time played.
LifeupOmega
(LifeupOmega)
#38
They don’t exist but that won’t stop the average DB player as we all know.
Yoma1
(Yoma)
#39
Well, i can’t stop getting asked what a level 58 does in the game, like im not allowed to play this game anymore because im level 58… . I have to read this every 4-5th game and even in min 10 servers this is present and if not, someone surely gonna complain about our team having a level 58 and they dont.
However, im not even playing serious most of the time (I play the merc and wep i like to play at that moment not caring if i perform good or bad) and am actually not that good either. People who are level 15-30 can outdo me because i play not much while newer player tend to play a little more. So just because youre level 100, it sometimes doesnt show that you play the game like a freak but rather for (a few) years already.
High level just gets you salt the one or the other way. No matter if its because youre too good stomping things or are just medicore and get insulted for being a bad high level player.
Levels should get removed from showing because they really just give you a reason to complain. If the game is unbalanced it’s unbalanced but a single high level is rarely the cause.
If casual MM will fix this? I doubt it but atleast it fix a few things which went wrong like many higher (skill)levels joining midgame on only one team and so on.
Wolf_Darkrose
(Wolf_Darkrose)
#40
isnt that why you usually go to stopwatch or execution after like level 12 to get a real challenge not playing the pub game type. still i get where your coming from and yes it bites but theres not enough player base at this point to work that in 24/7 after all late night for usa most servers are dead and when USA prime time hits it is flooded.