tactics and strategy for brink

(riptide) #21

[QUOTE=General Techniq;342288]
If you’re gonna run out all by yourself and try to spawn camp or farm kills off the enemy, then turn around and imply that all of your teammates are mentally disabled when you lose… seriously, dude, you know you need to be called out on that. Don’t you?

I thought you were joking at first, so my earlier reply was only meant in jest. However, since it appears that you’re all serious business about such a tactic, I’d have to assume that you’re not a fan of…
–ATTACKING Shipyard
–ATTACKING Container City
–ATTACKING Reactor
…if so, I think you’re missing out. My favorite maps to attack, right there.

I’d love to see gameplay of you spawn camping the defenders at Shipyard, though… sounds interesting. :)[/QUOTE]

Firstly, I win more often than I lose unless the teams are stacked with competitive players that know how to stop it. I never said I lose because they are mentally challenged… I implied I hope they realize they don’t have to sit back and snipe at the 1-2 guys that aren’t spawning… when they can just steamroll them before the enemy regroups to defend.

Secondly, Reactor is my favorite map and I prefer attacking shipyard and container city… especially because it’s such an effective strategy on those maps and sometimes the only way you can get a bunch of uncoordinated people out of the spawn.

Sure I may only kill 2-3 once they know I’m doing it… but it definitely provides a huge distraction. If you can’t see the importance of that… you have no concept of tactics. As I stated earlier it doesn’t work if they are privy to it and use flashbangs correctly in which case I become a detriment to my team.

The bottom line is… you want to control the map as much as possible. That’s been a viable tactic from the very first FPS and it’s still the best tactic. In pub games it’s the only way 1 person can carry a bad team consistently. Does it always work? No. But you can’t act like it’s a clan match with people on comms that have set strats… because even then they would do the same thing just in a cohesive manner… Control the map as best they can while denying them important tactical advantages.

(TeoH) #22

I know he’s 300% troll, i’m replying anyway.

The reason nobody from the competitive scene bothers with these forums is because Brink is a terrible comp game. But the other reason nobody from the competitive scene bothers with these forums is that the moment you want to discuss something, you are immediately set upon by pub console players who believe the games they play are actually similar in some way to an organised scrimm, and that they are knowledgable about the state of play because they have a level 20 character. They will then proceed to preach like a child might preach to a professional football player, about how awesome their super backheel move is, because they just scored against little Jimmy. Oblivious to the difference in game worlds they will argue untill the cows come home that their heavy operative backstab special super tactic is totally viable, and those clans playing scrimms just don’t understand their brilliance, because they aren’t INNOVATIVE enough to appreciate it.

These are the people that will Godwin any discussion by chanting TEAMPLAY STRATEGY TEAMPLAY COOPERATION. Those magical words that need never be elaborated on, that everyone knows are always the most important aspect of any game. Clearly this is what truely matters, the holy grail of gaming skill, the scale upon which all players are weighed, where those who would play from the couch with a joypad as a heavy with a tampa really show how special and unique and beautifully brilliant they are.

Look! i pressed use and buffed your weapon!

For those people, here is the wake up call: Brink is not a strategy game. It’s not an abstract art contest where you compete to show how deep and original you are. It’s not olympic synchronised bloody swimming. It’s a team first person shooter, where the most important job that everyone on the map is tasked with is the job of pointing a weapon at players of the opposing team, and firing bullets at them untill they fall over.

This is the crux of the game, because guess what? Pointing at an objective and pressing use isn’t difficult. Pointing at other people on your team and pressing use isn’t difficult. Finding your way to the room you’re meant to be fighting in is not difficult, although if you play pubs regularly you might not believe that last one. That place you thought of to stick a mine? It’s not original or important. Your brilliant scheme to put caltrops ontop of the objective? You are not Sun Tzu. The only ‘strategy’ involved gets no more complicated than choosing a workable distribution of classes among yourselves, and choosing default positions for players on defense. The only other non-combat aspect of the game is best described as ‘Generic team tactics’. The same basic level of on the fly team organisation that is part of every single team FPS ever: knowing where your team is and what they want to do, and complimenting it while communicating as much as necessary. Nothing about brink is special in this regard.

As for the combat, the weapon and movement mechanics simplify it to the most basic level of new-FPS generation mush, which means for anyone moderately competant the combat can be summed up as standing in the right place, facing in the right direction, and knowing if something is coming around the corner. That’s brink in a nutshell, a team of people striving to most effectively stand in the right place, face in the right direction and communicate to some degree. With the aim of killing the other team as succesfully as possible. So next time you spend half of a 20 minute round as an operative, disguised in the other teams base, wandering around ‘waiting for the right moment to strike!’, remember that you are not a clever original stratetgist, you are a waste of a body. Your team would be best served by you getting a gun out, getting as quickly as you can to the relevant area of the map, and killing as many people as you can, because that’s what the game is about. If you can describe the guy on your team that is spending his time killing the opposition as a ‘Lone Wolf’, then your team is doing it wrong, because he shouldn’t be alone.

Also, played that Qlive duel yet?

(General Techniq) #23

[QUOTE=riptide;342335]Firstly, I win more often than I lose unless the teams are stacked with competitive players that know how to stop it. I never said I lose because they are mentally challenged… I implied I hope they realize they don’t have to sit back and snipe at the 1-2 guys that aren’t spawning… when they can just steamroll them before the enemy regroups to defend.

Secondly, Reactor is my favorite map and I prefer attacking shipyard and container city… especially because it’s such an effective strategy on those maps and sometimes the only way you can get a bunch of uncoordinated people out of the spawn.

Sure I may only kill 2-3 once they know I’m doing it… but it definitely provides a huge distraction. If you can’t see the importance of that… you have no concept of tactics. As I stated earlier it doesn’t work if they are privy to it and use flashbangs correctly in which case I become a detriment to my team.

The bottom line is… you want to control the map as much as possible. That’s been a viable tactic from the very first FPS and it’s still the best tactic. In pub games it’s the only way 1 person can carry a bad team consistently. Does it always work? No. But you can’t act like it’s a clan match with people on comms that have set strats… because even then they would do the same thing just in a cohesive manner… Control the map as best they can while denying them important tactical advantages.[/QUOTE]
This is were we differ, dude. I don’t see that as “the best tactic” for carrying a weak team. Mostly because it’s not.

The best tactics revolve around the objectives, not the enemy spawn.
You can’t run off, lone wolfing it at the enemy spawn, and expect a bunch of uncoordinated randoms to secure the objectives for you, less they “be riding the short bus”. That’s just not the best way to maximize the effectiveness of the randoms.

[B]Defending: If you can 100% guarantee that you’ve got all 8 enemies pinned and blocked off from the primary objective. Then by all means, lone wolf away.
Attacking: If you can 100% ensure that you’ve neutralized the entire enemy team and have completely opened up the objectives, then of course you’ve done what’s best for your team.

But this is never really the case.
[/B]

If your team needs you at the objectives and you aren’t there, and you lose… why blame your teammates for your loss?
–How do you know that you’re gonna get that crane fixed if you’re at ONE of the three enemy spawn exits bugging 2 or 3 scrubs at a time before you’re sent to your respawn?
–How are you ensuring that the missile hack will go smoothly, when you’re completely focused on trying to corner camp ambush the next two enemies that come around that corner?

Those kills serve your team better and better, the closer they are to the primary area of action. Hell, funnel camping near the objective would also serve your team far better.

What going on with you ISN’T a case of whether or not your team is retarded. It’s whether or not your enemy is inexperienced or outnumbered.

True, everyone on the team should be able to carry their own weight and contribute to the battle; but expecting a missile to get hacked smoothly just because you’re strafing in and out of cover spawn camping, or expecting the bot to reach the crane just because every time you respawn you sprint towards the alley where the enemy spawns and farm as many kills as you can before you die, or expecting the vents to get hacked just because you run-n-gun towards one of the three enemy spawn exits kill hunting until you fall prey to a better placed shot, etc… etc… ; it is just NOT the best way to carry a weak team of randoms.
Sorry, but it isn’t.

You don’t need to tell me that simple straightforward tactics like that can work a lot of the time. I know that better than or as well as anyone out there, trust me, have done it to death and back. Doesn’t mean it’s the best tactic for carrying a weak team of randoms.

Would really like to play some Brink Old Skool or even a little Competitive (not really into 5v5 cap on 16 player maps) with you. People are usually sure that they know everything better than the next guy, if they’ve never played with them. That’s been true since Doom (the REAL beginning of FPS in my eyes).

I’m not just that guy who avoids playing easymodes (Resistance-on-Shipyard for example), I’m also that guy that you see still on the enemy team alone doing what he can to stonewall or punch through your team, after all the easymoders have switched too that side or quit out.
In fact, I’ve lost count of how many games of Brink that I’ve found myself barely winning a match as the only or one of two humans remaining on my attacking team against a full human squad of easymoders on the other side. I’ll only ever play that easymode or end up on the stacked team when I’m with a group of good players that have ran off the other team, and the other team chooses those maps (I usually leave a group on the spot if I think they’re voting for easymode advantages).

(crackedgear) #24

My impression is that you don’t want to do this until the gate is blown. Otherwise it gives resistance mediums and heavies another way into the security side of the gate.

Somewhat related to this: if you’re an engineer, don’t build every mg nest you see. It may be pointed the wrong way for your team. Like the one in the first section of the aquarium. Leave that one alone security.

(AmishWarMachine) #25

To borrow a quote, because it applies with Brink more than any other FPS I’ve ever played:

Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water.

~Bruce Lee

There are only brief moments where Brink strategy is in a vacuum (e.g. the start of the match, and in-between cut-scened objectives). Once those moments pass, and the first shots are fired… from there it’s all adapting to the moment, and doing exactly what that moment requires of you for success.

(riptide) #26

[QUOTE=General Techniq;342357]This is were we differ, dude. I don’t see that as “the best tactic” for carrying a weak team. Mostly because it’s not.

[/QUOTE]

How else can you carry a team? What’s a better way than creating a handicap for your team by making it 7 vs 3-4?

All I’m seeing you do is type these words but they are mostly empty. Also there is not 3 spawn points for defense on cc. If you’re talking about shipyard obj 1 there is only 3 paths but 2 exits if you push up far enough and I always do to block two of those paths.

I never said I don’t kill them if they funnel down by an objective. I just said I try no matter what to push them as far back to their spawn while taking out as many as I can. I do not care about my kills or my deaths… Ultimately it’s the killing sprees that make more difference than anything else you can do.

This is just a fact. If there are less players attacking than the defense has it’s easier to defend. If there is less players defending than the attacking team has it’s easier to complete the objective. please please please tell me I’m wrong. I like to give people a chance and give them more credit than I should… but I feel I’m being trolled. Especially since you just talked and talked like you would duel and then dodge while expecting him buy a 360 and a game to show you that he has a better grasp of game mechanics.

(General Techniq) #27

[QUOTE=riptide;342394]How else can you carry a team? What’s a better way than creating a handicap for your team by making it 7 vs 3-4?

All I’m seeing you do is type these words but they are mostly empty.[/QUOTE]
Again, guy, no need to get all butthurt and cheap just because someone doesn’t agree with you that going off alone away from your team is the best way to carry a bunch of weak randoms.

It can work, but it’s not some God-best strat that you’re claiming it to be, and has more to do with the weakness of the enemy than anything else.
Usually, on defense, if the one competent player on a defending team decides to go off and lone wolf against a half-decent enemy on Security Tower, you quickly find yourself praying that your teammates will help you stop that hostage from getting to that ramp in no time. It’s a flawed tactic with serious risk, if you’re the only decent player on your team and the enemy can distinguish up from down.

Again, the best tactics for carrying randoms revolve around the objective. When did I tell you not to kill the freaking enemy? Don’t throw childish assumptions.

****We both are talking about accomplishing the same goal, which is dragging the clueless random teammates to victory kicking and screaming.

-You say you do it by spawn camping as much as the enemy will let you.
-I’m telling you I do it by dragging my teammates towards the objectives and into key positions that deny the enemy easy access or defense, timed well enough to stonewall the enemy or steamroll them objective by objective.

-You say you depend on your teammates taking a cue from a lightened load of enemies coming at them as a signal to hit the objective, fortify an area or advance.
-I’m telling you I let them watch me clearing an objective be their cue to fortify/advance.

You need to be part of your team, if you want to know what they’re doing and might do from one situation to the next. Blanket strats like yours are often something that superiority-complex-minded players do when they don’t have their friends around to play with. That way, they can end the game deluding themselves into thinking that they are the sole reason that their team won, or that no responsibility for their team’s loss lays with them.

Yeah, I communicate with randoms. SACRILEGE!!
----Communicating can be as simple as turning around, just before you step into the main barricade ahead of the rest of your team, and throwing damage buffs at two of them, then proceeding to clear the barricade along with them, sitting down a turret pointed at the crane moments later as they watch your back. I, hands down, find that 9/10 randoms will back you on a push if you buff them just as you head in, where as only 1/10 would have usually been there for you otherwise. Those buffs are like lassos, if they see you throw the right one at their face at the right time.
----There are endless other ways to get your team to maneuver tactically with you around objectives, without saying a word.
----Then, of course, adding a clear dialog to the mix is quite a force-multiplyer.
----One thing I like is how, nearly all my teammates that see me lay down a turret in the corner right next to the Lab Container in CC and run a Me+turret combo from right behind it, will stick to the area or die trying, often securing the crap out of it by the time the bot is done planting, even though not a single soul was within 50 meters of me as I walked the bot up to the container alone only moments earlier.
On the flipside, I’ve watched randoms actually desert the area, as the bot cut through the container, when I didn’t display any obvious fortifying gestures.
----Really, I could go on all day with little objective focused tidbits, but know darn well it would never convince you (just words) nor should I be even trying to bother with convincing you in the first place.
You have your way of thinking, and I have mine. I just couldn’t help but call you out on what flat out looked like a lone-wolf-blame-team-if-lose style tactic… that’s just the way I’m built. No need to take it personally and get all butthurt about it. :slight_smile:

Either way, if either of us loses a game by these same tactics that helps us win all the others, then throwing the full blame onto our teammates is nothing but a cheap copout.